..his EW and the fact that he does not require her to provide regular and consistent financial (or physical/visitation) support. I guess he figures since he is holding things down OK, that he doesn't need her money. Not true. His money is very tight after everything is paid. He's a hardworking, strong breadwinner-mentality man's man (I love that about him), and I think he may perceive himself as being less of a man or provider if he asks her for financial support. Their divorce decree dictates that she is to pay child support and he says she used to pay but stopped doing so. And he lets her get away with it. She supposed to have SS (11) a couple of weekends a month as well as on Mother's Day and certain other holidays and she'll take him for a couple of weeks during the summer. BUT! Her relationship with her son is often strained and there are many times that she tells him she is going to pick him up and doesn't.

We've been together since Feb. this year and had planned to marry in Oct., but I've decided to push it back to next Spring (with which he was totally OK with). My issue that I have expressed to him (he didn't have much to say) is that if I marry him, then I don't want him to expect me to do her job! I love my SS and he adores me so far (at least on the surface...he's rather quiet most of the time so it's hard to know what he's REALLY thinking). But this business of my fiance' endorsing her irresponsibility is not something I'm sure I want any parts of. She works. Her new husband works and they only have a 4-y-o son between them. There is no reason under the sun that she should not be providing REGULAR support for her DS. If I'm living with DH and SS, doing most of the cooking, cleaning, helping with homework, shuttling to and from events, helping to pay mortgage and utilities where he lives 85% of the time or more, attending to his needs when he has emotional issues (he gets picked on a lot for being small for his age), and BM is half-stepping, then I'm doing her job. Of course I don't mind helping with my SS, but I get the feeling I'm gonna be a heckuva lot less enthusiastic about it if DH refuses to raise his level of expectation for EW to be an involved, supporting co-parent to their child. I gave fiance this analogy: "suppose we're married and now we have 2 small children running around and I say to you - I'm gonna do what I want to with my money...YOU use your money to take care of all the kids' needs!" He got very quiet and you can bet he understood my point. That, my love, is what you're letting her get away with. Heck, with that kind of arrangement, he's giving her a better deal than I get and I'm doing all the work! I don't wanna be ugly or give him an ultimatum, but this has potential to be a MAJOR source of contention for me!!! He's a pastor and sometimes his "faith" seems to translate more as "gullibility" to me. I'm sure she and her new hubby (of 4 years) laugh all the way to the mall every month. I don't intend to co-sign on this irresponsibility of hers.

I pray about this and we both pray a lot for all facets of our relationship, but am I being to unreasonable here?

Has he read the book Boundaries by Towsend & Cloud? It's based in scripture and may be right up your fiance's alley. I'd also get another, called Boundaries in Marriage.

I'm glad you pushed the wedding back, that shows you are smart. There's a consensus on the other board, Relationships After Divorce that one shouldn't get engaged until after a year of dating. It takes that long for the phermone-induced lust to wear off. After a year, people also drop any facades.

My XH is unable to take the kids on several of weekends and weeknights because he has scheduled business. I always take the kids because it's best for them if they don't have to travel to book shows and spend all day in a booth. This is their home. Recently, B lost his overnights with the girls until he cleaned up his home. I had them much more of the time. I also drive them to and from his house on the weekends. If my fiance started to fuss about how B was totally slacking and I should not let him get away with it, I would interpret this as M doesn't like having my girls around so much and he wants me to disturb a system that works for me and the girls. I may be willing to do it provided that it met my girls' needs.

In other words, on the visitation stuff, you need to tread very, very lightly.

On the money, if after your fiance has read Boundaries, he still isn't willing to go after his XW for the child support, I think you really need to consider your position. The way you presented it here, it sounds as if you begrudge your time and money going into the support of his son if you're not getting paid. That resentment could cause you to dislike his son and make you miserable in the marriage.

One way around that is to discuss exactly what you two expect the parenting situation will be like. Does he expect you to be a mother to his child? Or does he expect you to be a step mother? How much parenting does he expect from you? Do you make the boy's lunch for school or does he? Who is responsible for laundry? Do you have to go to all school concerts and events? Who makes the rules and handles discipline? How will financing the boy's life be accomplished? Will it be out of the general joint account or will there be a separate one that just his dad puts money into?

My fiance and my girls are working out what their relationship will be. Slowly, M has had more say in what is expected of the girls, but he cedes all disciplinary power to me. The girls may or may not invite M to shows, concerts and games, and he may or may not go. This works well for us. M is also comfortable that by helping pay our daily living expenses, he will also be subsidising the girls' clothing and extraciricular activities.

These issues are so important that you two may want to go to a family counselor to discuss them and even have a session or two with his son.

Also, are you two planning on having children together? If so, you really need to discuss if there will be any disparity in how his son by XW is treated versus the two you have together.

It sounds like you both need to sit down and start talking more. You're in the honeymoon phase still, so you're letting your happiness overshadow the real issues you'll encounter. I'm not talking who takes SS to games. I'm talking your true feelings about why BF divorced, how he feels about XW, your low opinion of him for being 'weak', your FOO issues about being taken advantage of.

In other words, I would recommend a full year of marriage counseling by a professional counselor - not a church counselor. Because I see a lot of entitlement in your words that could blossom into downright disdain.

One of my close friend's DH has several kids with his XW, the youngest being about the same age (11). He and my friend also have a DS together (3). His other kids are grown. DS11 lives with his mom and sees his dad (my friends H) on weekends and vacations. His XW (a WW FWIW) has been described to me by my friend as crazy. I won't share her stories since they aren't mine but needless to say, it has been poisonous. My friend told me the only way to deal with her is leave it to him. She is HIS EX, not hers. In the beginning she attempted civility but got nowhere and was very frustrated. Now if XW calls, she passes the phone to her DH. There are still ways XW can make her life hell (waited until the day before a trip to Mexico to decide that DS11 couldn't go and it was too late to change plans for example), but she can avoid most of the annoying stuff. Her DH has agreed that XW is his responsibility. She has said to me numerous times that if she had to do it over again, she'd find a widower rather than one with a living XW. The kids are no problem (even his grown DDs are no problem) but the XW is a challenge.

Now to relate more specifically to your sitch, I am dating a man who has shared custody of DD7. I get along well with her as well as XW (we all knew each other before anybody was an X anything). He has similar issues with his XW, though probably not as bad as yours. His XW is terrible with money, had to move to a somewhat seedy neighbourhood, had her phone & cable cut off, doesn't have a stove or a clothes dryer etc. Basically DD7 lives in poverty over there (though XW can afford to eat McD's every day and buy her all kinds of toys and take her on fun trips etc.). On top of that XW is extremely unreliable about picking up or dropping off - shows up hours late or sometimes not at all. Because her phone is cut off, there's nothing that can be done. It drives BF up the wall and me too because we've had to miss things or I've had to go on my own because he's stuck waiting for XW to show up. But his hands are tied - there's little he can do that doesn't simultaneously threaten the sweet custody deal he got. He's done what he can financially for her - with shared custody he doesn't pay CS to her but he does pay all daycare & school expenses, buys all her clothes etc - basically everything except the food she eats when she's with mom.

Now I'm not engaged to this man or anything and it's way too early to even guess if it will head that way or not. But I'm aware right now that he is a package deal. That package includes not just his DD, but certain XW issues as well. I'm painfully aware of that given my friend's situation above, though at least this XW isn't a b!+c4 like hers is. I realize that the more involved I am with him, the more involved I am with DD and the move XW's actions will affect me. I can actually see how this could be a dealbreaker for some. Just like my friend, I see more issues with XW than DD - I can't imagine being an adult in a household with a child and not assuming some role that isn't parent-like in nature.

Maybe this is how you have to think about it? Your F has an XW and associated problems with her. See if you can separate yourself from this part of him - as in leave XW to him to deal with. Sure it affects you because there's money involved. But on the same note, XW isn't giving that money to you, but to F. Maybe you can arrange your finances so you both contribute 1/2 the bills, F pays for school, clothing, daycare expenses of SS11 and if he doesn't have anything left over because XW didn't pay, he can start pestering her (or not if it doesn't bother him). You can't let it bother you because it isn't really about you anyway (even though it does affect you). This is the package that is your fiance. Can you accept it or is it a dealbreaker?

Normally, I would agree. In this case however, the child has a mother that chooses not to participate fully in his life. You can't force her to co-parent if she doesn't want to. As a matter of fact, the child may be better off if you don't try to force the issue.



Personally, I would revisit this issue with the court and ask for full custody and back child support. If she doesn't want to be a co-parent, turn her loose. The child has a right to be financially supported by both parents. If your fiance is not willing to fight for his childs rights you may want to reconsider marriage into this disfunctional situation.

I view child suppoort as specifically for the child, not as support for the parent who is taking care of the child. In that regard, it doesn't matter if the parent needs the money or not, nor do they have a right to refuse the money. If the money truly isn't needed right now, then it should go to some sort of savings or college fund, IMO.

I happen to agree with you...but at times getting a mother to pay child support is like pulling teeth.

I would strongly suggest that this couple is not nearly ready to be considering marriage and that the poster really has zero say in the father accepting or not accepting child support.

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the feedback...keep it coming. Some of the responses I agree with, some not, but I can definitely understand and appreciate what everybody is saying. Here are some other points to consider and my attempt to answer the questions you've posed:

"Has he read the book Boundaries by Towsend & Cloud? It's based in scripture and may be right up your fiance's alley. I'd also get another, called Boundaries in Marriage." No, I can't say that he's read or heard of the book (to my knowledge). Sounds like an interesting book though...I will definitely plan to read it. Hopefully I can encourage him to - I've found that you had to tread lightly with "suggesting" to a man that he needs to read a book of any kind. Men are often resistant to books, counseling and the like. I dunno, like they need to feel like they're handling their business and don't need outside influences to help them. We are currently working through a workbook together called "Before You Say I Do." He was hesitant at first but now thanks me profusely for suggesting it since we're having fun with it.

"It sounds like you both need to sit down and start talking more. You're in the honeymoon phase still..." I definitely agree, though we do talk. A lot. He's somewhat reserved (very much an introvert) so it's only been recently that he's started to open up...after me writing him a long, loving letter to let him know that we can't build a strong foundation on marriage with all the silence.

"I'm talking your true feelings about why BF divorced, how he feels about XW, your low opinion of him for being 'weak', your FOO issues about being taken advantage of." I know ALL the particulars about why he divorced - I couldn't ADD EVERY little detail in my post...it REALLY would've been long. Fact it, she cheated on him and walked out on him and their DS. I don't think he's weak at all, and that's mainly what bothers me. He's a very strong man and despite his quiet nature, he doesn't hesitate to assert himself and present boundaries in other situations. So I know what he's capable of. I think it's that there was so much drama early on during and after the divorce that he tries to keep the peace at all costs. I can totally respect this, but life has taught me that sometimes you gotta be willing to confront some issues, even if there's the possibility of people flaring up.

"Does he expect you to be a mother to his child? Or does he expect you to be a step mother?" We've discussed this as well, and he's completely content with however I'm most comfortable relating to his son. I told him that I could see myself as more of a mentor of sorts, but that I felt like his son has more than enough "parents." M, D, SD and a grandmother (fiance's mom) whom he's very close to. I just don't see the need to be overly motherly with SS. He's a great kid, very well behaved for the most part and EXTREMELY respectful towards adults, and trust you me - I count my blessings for this!! But I also know that situations change and people change and kids are no exception to this. I'm moving slowly with developing a relationship with his son, and it'll probably take a while before I comfortable taking on more of an authoritative role...and even then, that will only be when DH is not present to handle him. I intend to leave the discipline issues primarily up to F/DH.

"Also, are you two planning on having children together?" YES! We'd like to have 2 together. If we weren't planning to, I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about all this. "If so, you really need to discuss if there will be any disparity in how his son by XW is treated versus the two you have together." I certainly agree here.

"But on the same note, XW isn't giving that money to you, but to F. Maybe you can arrange your finances so you both contribute 1/2 the bills, F pays for school, clothing, daycare expenses of SS11 and if he doesn't have anything left over because XW didn't pay, he can start pestering her (or not if it doesn't bother him). You can't let it bother you because it isn't really about you anyway (even though it does affect you)." This is irrelevant. I fully aware that the money isn't mine, nor did I pose this question as a bloodsucking stepmom looking to cash in on the BM. HOWEVER, if she is not helping to raise HER son, then it affects how much DH has to contribute towards keeping a roof over DS's head, paying utilities, providing transportation, etc., etc. - not just for DS, but for the entire family. Will also affects how much DH has to contribute towards raising add'l children. And yes, he's very big on making sure that he provides well. But if his funds are tight because he gets little help from BM, then it might make the difference between being able to afford add'l kids or NOT. Don't get me wrong, it's not like BM does nothing. She will contribute when F goes to her. He says she's always willing and never puts up a fight either...which tells me she has the resources, she's just getting away with what he allows her to get away with. Understand that he only goes to her for financial help when HIS money is tight. Problem I have with that is that if he continues this practice, then once we're married, this gives her a foothold into the status of our household finances. I don't need that. I know it may sound nitpicky, but she doesn't need to have any inkling about when money is good or tight in our house. If she were required to contribute regularly, this wouldn't be an issue.

"I view child suppoort as specifically for the child, not as support for the parent who is taking care of the child. In that regard, it doesn't matter if the parent needs the money or not, nor do they have a right to refuse the money. If the money truly isn't needed right now, then it should go to some sort of savings or college fund, IMO." I agree, child support goes for the child. Whoever suggested in their response that I want her to support her son so that I could be compensated was WAAAAAAY off base. I've been caring for other people's children since my tween years, most of which I am not compensated for. Kids love me and I love them. I'm not looking to be paid for helping with his son. But I am looking for her to help her EH with expenses that arise as part of her son's upkeep. As I stated to F, it may not seem like much of a deal now because the kids is small, he doesn't eat much and he's not hard to please. Wait until he's a strapping 15 or 16 year old who eats $250 worth of grocery ALONE every week! Wait until he wants to play basketball and the participation fees, uniform/shoes and away game trips exceed $4- or $500 EVERY season! (It's already close to this.) Senior trips. Year books. Proms. Vehicle. Car insurance. Inflation far exceeds any measley raises in minimum wages these days and by the time he's a teenager, it'll likely be much worse. Are we supposed to fund his lifestyle at 100% while mom waits to be begged to help support her own child? NO WAY! As I stated to fiance, the wise thing to do would be to raise his level of expectation for support from her NOW - and perhaps gradually - so that it's not a impossible task when we REALLY need the funds. You hit the nail on the head with the savings part... EXACTLY WHAT I TOLD HIM! If he doesn't need it now, stash it away in an interest-bearing account. Rest assured that he WILL need it eventually.

"I would strongly suggest that this couple is not nearly ready to be considering marriage and that the poster really has zero say in the father accepting or not accepting child support." I can appreciate your view, but it doesn't say a lot for how you view marriage if you think that I don't have any say in the issues that will affect me and my future children. I'm just not that kind of doormat.

In the end, F and I get along extremely well. And much of this is because he really does strive to please me in every area. I don't present things in an attempt to control him...I make it loud and clear that these are just my opinions and I know that he will handle it all in the way that he sees fit. But as one poster said, I have to decide if it's a package I can accept in totality or if it's a dealbreaker.

P.S. I should add that BM is currently considering moving 3 states over. Not because she has a job there, but because her sister and mom moved there. Go figure! I couldn't every imagine considering a move that would further minimize the opportunity to spend time with the child(ren) I birthed. SS is kinda mad at her about this. But as much as he likes me, I don't feed into anything that remotely looks like he might end up favoring me over BM. My primary concern is for HIM...for him to grow up an emotional healthy and strong young man, and I want to see F do everything he can to help foster this. In my mind, part of that is expecting from her regular involvement and investment in her child. People tend to pay more attention to things/people that they have an investment in.

Ok, I've rambled long enough. Thanks again guys!!!

...don't get me wrong, if she moves and/or continues to minimize her investment in her son's life, of course, I'd step in and play more of a motherly role to SS if he's receptive to it. But I'm a firm believer that a child needs a HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP with both mother and father for the best emotional stability, and to that extent, I want to see F push a little harder in his expectations of EW. My SS should know and be able to see that his dad has his "back" when mom is slacking...not that Dad is just gonna sit back and not speak up about it. After all, if he ends up in the dumps emotionally, reeling over why mom "doesn't want me," who's gonna have to feel the brunt of that? EXACTLY! Me and DH.

By the way, I totally appreciate the comments that we aren't ready to be married. Maybe that's why I pushed the date back. But I wanted to clarify that we weren't rushing because we're so caught up in a honeymoon state. We're believers who are committed to doing this by the Good Book we believe in. Long engagements for Christians often spell disaster. Our relationship will not be consummated until the wedding night, so we opted not to push the wedding out too far. But some other challenges trumped that. The change came not so much as a result of the issues I posted about (those it is a factor), but more because of my own financial issues and my commitment to pay off some things first so that I don't walk into the marriage as an immediate financial burden. Ya feel me?

I married the person I thought was my soulmate after 7 months of knowing him. He had 2 children and a crazy XW or so I thought.

Our marriage ended in D after 11 years of sheer h@ll, a lot of it due to the games played by his kids and XW. In the beginning she had custody and we (after we married it was "our" money - not mine and his) paid dearly. Court was an annual event and our lives were a nightmare. After 2 years the kids moved in w/us and the XW paid child support about two months. The kids were used to being bribed and bought and our lives were never the same.

It is very hard to relinquish all parental control to the "real" parent when it's your house, your money, your life, etc.

I'm not saying that you don't need to marry him but please slow down. You can control your hormones by not allowing yourselves to be alone where you could go too far. You really need to think this through and talk a lot more. Time will show you how this is going to be and you are talking about bringing other children into this situation. I had a daughter from a previous marriage that went through h@ll right along with me.

Just slow down. If this is God putting the two of you together it will work just as well a year from now. Being engaged after only 5 months isn't enough time. If I had waited and we had dated/been engaged for two years which is what I wanted but allowed myself to be manipulated into SF and then marriage at 7 months, I do not believe I would have married him.

Thank you life2short! I do appreciate your candor and for sharing your experience. I am so sorry to hear that your M did not work out...especially after investing 11 years. That's a LONG TIME nowadays!

When my F proposed to me on my birthday, he was cool with whenever I set the date for, so I can't say that he has rushed me or pressured me at all. And I appreciate him for that. I guess in addition to having to wait to be physically involved, I do get concerned about my own biological clock. (I just turned 36.) But after observing more and more and keeping my ears and eyes peeled to everything that's going on, I realized heck...if this is a situation that's gonna cause me to be miserable, I wouldn't wanna bring any additional kids into it ANYWAY! And similar to what you said about God, I had to remind myself that if this is indeed His will and it's meant for us to have additional kids, they'll get here whether I'm 38 or 42. (Lord knows I sure don't wanna be that old just getting started though.)

I read a statement in a relationship book some time ago that always stuck with me: "You'd rather be single than to WISH you were!" I couldn't agree more, and I guess that's why I've had to take a step back. At the same time, I don't wanna wait for everything to be perfect before I marry this man. He's truly one in a million but just ended up being dealt a bad hand - which I'm sure is partly his fault. While I feel like he doesn't question things enough, I - on the other hand - am the one that tends to OVERanalyze things. I've been engaged 4 times in the past and broke off every one of them myself. Partly because I was a commitmentphobe, partly because my tolerance for BS is NIL (after growing up watching domestic violence and lots of infidelity from my father) and - I guess I should admit - partly because I've truly grown to love and enjoy my single and free-spirited life. I've traveled a lot, worked with lots of children in many capacities in church and in the community, I'm a musician, singer and songwriter as well as a budding actress. I worked hard to get a couple of degrees. I enjoy public speaking and get the opportunity to do so from time to time. And I have great aspirations as an entrepreneur. I don't say any of this to boast about myself. My point is that if I'm gonna trade in my single life, it D*M* well better be worth it. While he is supportive of my artistic endeavors, I don't expect to hold onto everything I now enjoy as a single. I understand that I'll need to compromise and make room and time in my life for joint pursuits in ministry that we talk about. But to think that my life could be consumed trying to take up the slack for his negligent EW is not a pleasant thought to me. Kids change and just because he likes me now doesn't mean he will after I've moved in and it's a day-to-day balancing act, him getting used to Dad and me making decisions that he may not like. Right now, it's mostly a weekend thing since we live in different cities (about 2 hrs. apart). And although I read people's suggestions to disengage, I don't think I'd do that. I couldn't be present in the house with his DS and refuse to help with homework. Or cook him a nutritious meal a few days a week. Or listen to him if he's hurting about something. He really is a sweet kid, and I'd do anything for him.

It's just that I wanna see F push his EW a little harder as it concerns her role in her DS's life. Not that he can make her do anything. I will say in her defense though, that she said that she's trying to "reach out" to her DS but he keeps "acting funny." I asked F if he thought that had anything to do with me coming in the picture (as I stated, he likes me A LOT). My F said that he didn't think so and that they're relationship has been strained in the past. Apparently there was a lot of drama in the past in regards to custodial issues - some between EW and her current H. (F had to stop letting his DS go to his mother's AT ALL at one point, due to the dom. viol. in her home.) Personally, if that's all water under the bridge, I think my F should work with her and their DS if she's genuinely trying. SS often decides that he doesn't "feel like" going over to BM's when it's her weekend. Other weekends, she just doesn't come pick him up. Often my F ends up taking him over there, which he totally doesn't mind doing. But this haphazard shared custody arrangement is another thing that is unsettling for me. We haven't discussed this yet, and it may be one of those things I wait to put on the table in the counselor's office (which, for those who mentioned it, we FULLY plan to do).

It's just a tall order, no matter how you spin it. Being a pastor's wife (public eye, lots of scrutiny) is a huge task by itself, so it'd be nice if his EW would help out a bit more with her child. Sure, some of it's about my comforts (I'd be a fool not to ask F to consider my needs), but a lot of it for me is more about the emotional well-being of my SS.

You shouldn't have to change in order to be married. Sounds like you lead a very exciting life. Just don't compromise so much of who and what you are that you end up resenting him b/c of it.

Just be very careful with the son. I know that my bad experience doesn't mean that you will have one and my situation was in many ways different BUT there are many reasons why resentment can creep into the situation.

Early on my SD called me Mom UNTIL my SS told his mom and she put an end to that!!! She manipulated alot and if your fiance does push her on child support you don't know how she may react. He is dealing with her in divorce probably how he dealt with her in the marriage.

I'm glad to know that you are putting this off until next year.

Just keep your eyes open and your intuition sharp. The things that are minor irritants now are HUGE when you're married and deal with them on a daily basis. You've been engaged 4 times before so you know he isn't the only fish in the sea!! I only say that b/c I would hate to see you wait so long to be married and then be in a marriage that doesn't work or that is stressful and chaotic.

As wonderful as the son may be it is, in my opinion, almost impossible to truly love, care for, excuse, overlook a child that is not your own and with whom you have no blood bond. I think it is different if you adopt a child in a true adoption and you make that child your own. Or, this could just be my jaded opinion.

In any event, just be careful.

I think this is the gist of the issue right here. Somewhere, you have to set your own mental boundary. Facts are, one spouse has the baggage which you are aware of going into the marriage. You are entering a marriage not just with your fiance, but also his son and his XW. His responsibilities to them do become yours in that sense, but at the same time, you have no real say in it either. Think about that for a while because it is critical.

Is that truly what you believe?




Is that so? On what basis do you make that assertion as a rationalization for a "quick marriage?"




Okay, so all the preceding "hand wringing" about the child, the ex-wife, the lack of child support money, etc., etc. IS wrapped up in THIS truth....you are more concerned about the material "things" and use them as a "religious excuse" for what you are doing in order to get what YOU want, the way you want it.

You and this pastor are, imho, nowhere near "ready" for marriage.


IF I could speak to your fiance, this pastor, I would ask him about "consequences" for sin. Did God remove the consequences that David had to "deal with" for the rest of his life? His ex-wife CHOSE sin, and the consequence IS the "child support payments." To NOT insist upon them is to "play God" and NOT hold her accountable for her actions, to "excuse" the first sin and to countenance continuing sin.

There is much that does not seem right about this whole relationship between you and him.

But then you've only doled out a very limited amount of information.

marymartha, MARRIAGE is very serious business. How old are the two of you? Have YOU ever been married before? How long have you been a believer? WHY the "rush" to get married? Because you "burn" with physical lust for each other? All the more reason to NOT get married in "rush."

You want children? That's good. But for what reason? Are you both, perhaps, using your "wants" to justify putting those things ahead of humble submission of your lives to God?

to "foreverhers"...geez, i never said that I or F was perfect. i'm sorry you made that assumption. "committed" to doing things by the Book suggests that we're striving, not that we always get it right. one day we'll be like you and able to walk in total, inerrant perfection 24/7/365! (or at least the way things pan out in your dreams. lol!)

for now, perhaps you can just bear with me. to answer your age question: i'm 36, he's 33 (34 in a few months). no, i've never been married. so yes, we're old enough and more than wise enough to know what we're doing. and i have to concur with what you said about the "limited information." you do indeed make a lot of generalizations and judgments based on this VERY limited information, but it's all good - you're speaking based on the info i offered. i'd be here all week trying to lay out all the finer points.

if you knew me - and i realize that you don't - you'd know that i'm about as far from materialistic as women come! i don't enjoy shopping (though i do like nice things from time to time), i don't spend a lot of money on "nothing" - business development and getting my money to WORK for me is much more important in my world. much of my debt is student loans and business related stuff. honestly, i'm not one of the "gold-digging" women who demands to ride in the finest car, have her hair and nails professionally done every week, present an "elitist" image in front of others even if we can afford the lifestyle...blah, blah, blah. so not me. so not us! i just know that the older this kid gets, the more expensive he will get. i've got enough kids in my family and i helped raise my sister's daughter after she died when baby was less than a year old. so i do have a strong clue about the growing demands of these precious little creatures.

me getting my finances together is a totally separate matter from him pursuing CS from EW. again, i'm not after EW's money. but why should F continue to cheat his son - and possibly OUR children in the future - when EW could be helping towards the upkeep of her child? no, i don't have to have things the way i want them ALL the time (just MOST of the time, lol!) if you go back and read my posts, i alluded to compromise in SEVERAL statements. i TOTALLY get that part about relationships. but if you're suggesting i should just go into the situation quietly and just take on whatever the nature of their home-life and unstructured custody arrangement is, without presenting my own opinions, needs and expectations, then YOU, my friend, have NO CLUE about what it takes to build a solid marriage. are you married? is this how you went into your marriage? did your W not have a right/opportunity to present some expectations? both H AND W should be able to lay out their expectations so that the other can decide how to - or IF - he/she is willing to help fulfill those expectations. no one person in ANY marriage should be making all the sacrifices while the other party stays in their comfort zone. not that i'm keeping a friggin' tally or anything, but the details that i didn't add are that i'm moving from my big city life (not that i'm married to it any more – it gets old after while), selling the condo i own in the city (which includes the space i rent out for add'l income) and moving in with DH and SS in a city much smaller city with MUUUUUUUUUUCH lower wages...into the house that he and his EW once shared...which i'm REEEEEEALLY not very enthusiastic about. actually, i had initially told him that i wasn't open to moving there into “her space,” but i've given in there too...so that we can save for a while for a new house. (now, before you jump the gun, he says that he totally understood my stance on this and that a past EGF had told him the same thing about EW's space...so it's not just me!) it's not the smallest of towns they live in, but it's a big jump from the major metropolitan city i currently live in. if i hadn't grown up in a rural area nearby, it'd probably be more than i could handle. but i personally like the country, and moving to his area also allows me to get to spend more time with my own parents who are in nearby towns. that kinda softens the adjustment some. all the same, it's still a huge sacrifice to go from making $46-$55k a year to $35k or less. so yes, the ol' materialistic gal is gonna take a huge salary cut to marry the man she loves. i'm doing all i can to make this union become a reality...but also to make sure the big picture is something i can live with on a long-term basis. considering that DSS will most likely be heading off to college in roughly 6 years, i've asked myself if i could just "grin and bear it" til then. but the answer to that is "no!" on a day-to-day basis that's still a looooong time if you're dealing with a situation that you're uncomfortable with deep down inside.

i’m sure i don’t have to tell you that the vast majority of marriages fail due to money issues. i say that to say that one does not have to be materialistic to want to make sure that financial issues are WELL ironed out before getting married. you twisted my concerns totally. Most honest women will admit that they do expect a certainly level of financial security out of marriage. my free-spirited, adventurous lifestyle is more what i cling to, not material things. but yes, i realize this can also be equated with idolatry. my fear is trading in the freedom to pick up and move across country (which i've done) or spend some time on the missions field (which i aspire to), give up the right to spend my time and resources how I want to in exchange for a miserable marriage that does little to consider my personal needs. not saying F is like that...he has truly done whatever he can to make sure that i'm happy. but he hasn't had a whole lot of comment after our conversation about his DS, EW and support. and i understand that he probably doesn't want to rock the boat. i totally get that, but i don't like the idea of him supporting me AND her. and unnecessarily assuming her part of her responsibility to her son IS, imho, supporting her. (operative word: unnecessarily. if she weren’t working or wasn’t able to help out, the situation would be understandable.)

...continuing in my response to "foreverhers":

...if you must know, i've been a believer for many years. if you haven’t yet figured out that interpretations, levels of conviction and how we each relate to God vary IMMENSELY across the Christian faith, it makes me wonder how long YOU have been a believer. yes, i'm on "meat," not "milk." we were not consciously "rushing" to marry, but we felt like we wanted to go ahead and do it as opposed to having a long engagement. i am glad, however, that we have decided to push it back. but i still contend that many christians who were convinced to wait, wait, wait end up in fornication and the same people that had no NO CLUE about the couple's needs, temperaments or otherwise are the same ones who proceed to judge them for falling into sin. do i need to quote you I cor. 7:9? no, i think you probably know it as well as i do.

"MARRIAGE is very serious business." YOU'RE TELLING ME! the fact that I've broken off other engagements sorta proves that I'm well aware of this. you judge me for trying to go into it making a well-informed decision, and then turn around and tell me that it’s serious business. and just why the heck do you think i’m running thru everything with a fine-tooth comb????? because i see it as VERY serious business and I’m hoping to minimize the number of surprises that i’ll stumble upon after the vows.

we do indeed strive to live our lives in humble submission to God...yep, by the Holy Bible. But there's one thing I'm convinced...and it's that God gives us wisdom, knowledge and a brain for a reason. walking in humility and submission to God and being a pushover are NOT synonymous. to assert oneself is NOT sin. to gain a better understanding of these challenges is not sin.

And before I forget...in response to: "Is that so? On what basis do you make that assertion as a rationalization for a "quick marriage?"... please here this: "quick marriage" needs no rationalization. i cannot, for the life of me, figure out where Christians find all this self-assumed "wisdom" that marriage between 2 people can be put on a canned, one-size-fits-all timetable. PLEASE TELL ME YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THAT. everything in God's kingdom is about timing. where He may have called 2 people to wait for 8 years before marrying, he also makes other couples' paths cross for whom His will is for them to be married right away. did it ever dawn on you that our moving the wedding to next spring could be an act of disobedience? this fall may have been His will. heck, maybe, we're supposed to be married already and none of the EW issues really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. maybe one of us is not going to live much longer and he brought us together to unite in happiness for our last days? sounds grim, i know, but it's a heavy dose of reality that we'd all do well to heed. yes, i realize, that i do indeed sometimes get caught up worrying about things that God may have a very strange twist to, right around the corner. almost daily, i have to remind myself to keep things in perspective as it relates to the BIG picture.

but do your research. there are countless stories of couples who married after knowing each other for a VERY short period of time and stay together into their old ages and often until their death. and others who married quickly and not long after, one of them made their "transition" to be with the lord. were their "quick marriages" God's doings? sometimes, i'm sure. probably sometimes not. my point is that there are very few SPECIFIC things in God's kingdom (outside of immutable precepts and commandments) for the lives of His people that relate to EVERY person, or every couple, every time. that's why it's called a "PERSONAL" relationship with Christ. and those who've matured in the faith know better than to allow others to dictate timetables and arrangements that might be comfortable for that oh-so-wise other person. we have to seek Him for His will for our own VERY PERSONAL situations. And it's not always so simple to differentiate between what is our our own selfish desires, what is something that He's actually speaking for our lives and what may be a trick of the enemy.

no, i'm certainly not advocating "quick marriages," but I AM advocating sensitivity to the leading of God in our individual cases, not doing things based on what others have decided for us - unless, of course, they offer wise counsel that confirms what we believe Him to be saying to us anyway. furthermore, adversity is not an automatic reason me to say "no" to our desire to be united. some of God's greatest prophets of the Bible were sent on assignments in the middle of adversity. there are situations where God calls us to where we’re to be a part of the solution. not saying that's the case here...just making a point. so, am i to wait on everything to be perfect before deciding to marry? if i did, geez, i'd be like the little flier i see in people's offices: "waiting for the perfect man." and there sits the skeleton of an old lady on a park bench, complete with her purse still hanging from her bone frame. i'm not marrying because i'm afraid to grow old alone - trust me, i've got enough interests and aspirations to last me a few lifetimes. but i do want marriage. to love and to be loved. it's just that the "x-files" was never part of my "ideal" situation for a healthy marriage.

in my heart, i feel like i'd still marry him even if he wasn't able - or didn't try - to get support from EW. it would probably equate to us managing our finances differently than if she were contributing. but the net of it all is that the whole situation will definitely require a good deal more prayer and fasting before i’m certain whether i can accept or decline the extra baggage.

all that chatter, and i knew there was something i forgot to say...

ya know, i think that healthy and lasting marriages have more to do with compatibility, adaptability (to change and the other person's differences) and the both spouse's willingness to compromise than how long the couple dated before hand. in addition to the lasting marriages after short engagements, i've also seen and heard of waaaay too many instances where couples date for 4, 5, sometimes 10 years or more and they're in divorce court before they can reach their one-year anniversary.

each case is different. i've chosen to wait a bit longer because of my financial situation and because there are some things i need to "see" and get a better understanding and/or acceptance of before i'm comfortable taking the plunge.

to "life2short": i hear you loud and clear: "Just keep your eyes open and your intuition sharp. The things that are minor irritants now are HUGE when you're married and deal with them on a daily basis." it's funny you say this...almost every marriage book i've perused screams this very thing! thanks for your nonjudgmental encouragement and advice.

You are correct that financial issues ruin many a good relationship, including marriages.

Settling your debts before marriage is very important but so is collecting on debts owed.

The matter of child support will fester if he does not attack it now. He needs to take her to court and it may well get ugly. The amount owed is likely to be in the thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. Dollars that his soon to be teenager could greatly benefit from.

The fallout could include built up resentment towards you for "urging" him to do this in the first place. Do you want this to occur before or after you are married?

He does not sound like a very stand-up kind of guy (if) he is not willing to take on his XW for the benefit of his own child. Do you then expect that he will ever stand up for you?

I agree completely with what others are saying about CS. But there is one area where it may be in your best interest to alter your attitude a little. You've said something similar in a couple of posts but this is the most recent:


While it is true that any CS your F receives for his son will have an impact on your entire family, including additional children, the CS his EW pays F is NOT for that purpose. If you can separate this in your own mind, it could help you to communicate your concerns more clearly to F, without coming across as wanting the money for your self or for your future children. I'm pretty sure that's the point you are trying to make, but these statements do cast a shadow towards this linke of thinking. Does this make sense or have I muddled it? Basically, since you are a planner and finances are an important part of the plans you make, completely disregard what CS is supposed to be in your plans - as if it didn't exist. Counsel your F as best as you can that CS is important for his son, but don't bring any other factor into the discussion. Try to keep it out of your mind as well - it will help you choose the right words. And in the end, remember that the CS issue is between F and EW (and their son) and you truly have no say in it. You can only provide advice to your F - either he takes it or he doesn't.