Seriously, are you a man or a woman? I'm guessing a man who had an affair.

You're divorced?

I hate to hit you with the reality, but you tore this person's life apart and all that she held dear and trusted is gone. So she is going to be wreck for a while until she gets her feet back under her.

It's tough as a BS to see a WS show no remorse, compassion, understanding, or sensitivity to the wake of destruction they've created.

So it's tough to read your posts as a BS and seeing the mentality of not quite getting why this person you hurt so deeply is a bit of a wreck right now. She will be for a while.

As far as your step daughter goes, it's a matter for her parents to handle. You're not her parent. It's not your business, especially now that you're divorced.

Sorry to sound harsh, but harshness seems to be the only thing that can penetrate a wayward. And please have some sensititvity and refer to your BS as a BW or DW or exbw or exdw.

Yes, the ideal scenario is the one SH preaches, but the very first thing that must happen is complete remorse on your part and an never ending amount of apologies to your BW. One time isn't gonig to cut it. It must be constant and it must be consistent in order to help her heal.

Even then, it's her decision to forgive you. The deck is seriously stacked against you as a wayward, especially on these boards. We're happy to help you, but complete remorse and acceptance of your actions is a first step to have us want to help you.

Ok, you did this terrible thing. Now what? And yes, please stop referring to your affair as a mistake. It was what it was. It was an affair. A conscious decision to turn your back on your vows and betray the very person who said they'd be at your side till the day they died or you died. That's not a mistake. It's a willful act.

I think this is dead on the money. As a BS myself I have found that the key to my personal recovery has been the removal of my WxtbxH from my life. It's impossible to completely remove him but I can minimize contact to essential communication only and then when we do, I stick to the business at hand - no asking how he is and my answer to him is pretty much like your BS (vague). The thing is, it works. It works well.

See your BS has suffered terribly and is still suffering. It is like being run over by a freight train and then having to peel yourself and body parts off the track. Every time she sees or speaks to you, it's like being hit by another train. All the appologies and remorse in the world will never make that suffering less. Since you are divorced, it's none of your business how she feels or why. Stay out of her life as best you can. Give her a chance to heal - stop picking at the wounds.

Black Night Work (?),

So....you answered...Believer.....but.....could not....be bothered to...answer the simple....question of gender.

I guess...you extract...extreme delight....in hiding this...fact.

So...I can't...be bothered....with your pompous drama.....anymore.

I'll decide if I want to reply, not you. You can use the ignore feature, that's YOUR choice.

Get out of his/her life. You've ruined it enough. Stop dropping by and snooping at her medicine.

And read what everyone wrote about your 'mistake'. Wake up and take responsibility.

Oh it ain't been hit yet.

I've stayed out until now.


Avoid destructiveness?

HA!

A little late out of the stall on that one Tex!



The absolute BEST thing you can do for your betrayed family that you discarded is to disappear.

I AM a betrayed spouse and it was the best thing for me for her to do.

Haven even spoken to her in over a year and everything is swimmingly now.

Stay away from them, they don't need your poison any more.

I agree with the ideas that I continue to take responsibility for my actions....I have, will continue to...I see the consequences....and will be forever sorry.

I disagree that disappearing from my children's lives is the best thing for them. I rather think that choosing to attempt to restore credibility, confidence, trust...and showing that change is worthy of working for...is far better an example. I won't slink away and hide....despite the challenge to do so. I simply will stand up, and try and address any damage the best I can....that's all I want to do here...and I will continue to try...may not do it right, well, or effectively...but the effort will be sustained nonetheless.

I heard the message from my BW (not sure what all the acronyms stand for....(I am guessing this means BWife)....that an openness to pursuing the "ideal scenario" doesnt exist....I won't interject the pressure to do so...Simply try and do A type of behavior because it is right for everyone....I won't abdicate any more responsibility to any of them...would seem contrary to A....and I am not about that now.

You are right...an affair happened here and I am at fault...the damage is large...I will own it...but at the same time, I am going to continue to act differently...so my family in totatity sees that I recognize what happened...and will continue to try and be a bettter person as a result.

LOL, krusht!

You sound like Captain Kirk!

Charlotte

Picked up kids early the other night....were having a nice supper on the patio, listening to some music...BW called and wanted to see kids....welcomed to come join. BW showed up...stayed for over an hour. Looked brighter. I felt good about interaction....no pressure...just welcomed...felt like a family for a minute....double edge sword...very painful, but glad for the moment....

BNW, Your words will be in black. The underlying meaning will be in red.


Though my D has been done for quite some time now....the stress of the relationship with my BS continues...

I thought that once the divorce went through everything would be fine. We would be friends, and my betrayed spouse would snap out of it. I thought BS would get over it, because now my affair wouldn't be an affair anymore, and I could be free - and the divorce made everything okay. Only BS isn't over it, and BS acts like it still hurts, like I still owe BS something. Like what? I'm free now, we're not married anymore. BS needs to let the past be in the past - it's over already. Give it a rest.



I have finally, and with great remorse, sadness, and regret, accepted no repair is possible.
I have finally given up trying to figure out what BS "wants". There is no way to go back and change what I did, and BS is going to have to accept that fact. I didn't MEAN to do this, after all, I didn't have the affair on purpose just to hurt BS, right? I can't undo it. And I can't do anything to fix it now. I'm sorry for that. But I can't fix it. Somehow in here there is some shame and regret, but I'm not focusing on that too much, because I can't fix that either.

I continue to PLAN A, if only to try and facilitate as much function as I can...

Plan A. Well, I'm doing a few things to make a show of trying to make up for the affair. I don't have my heart in it, because I'm a taker, really. To make things really right, I know that I would have to do a complete turnaround in my life, and be a GIVER, and I know that means a lot of work. The phrase "if only to try" negates the sentence, BNW, and is a tell that you are not putting any effort into this. sorry.

I continnue to try and build credibility...atone for the mistake....it never works, though, and the destructiveness comes my way daily. I earned it...I got it...just waiting for a day when it fades...I try to bury myself in work, and care for my beautiful children....trying to recover....and set it straight...
Okay, here's the pity party. You're trying to say that you're working really hard to earn back trust and respect. Except that WAHHH-WAHHH-WAHHHHHHHH, it's not happening as fast as YOU want it to. People are not cooperating and doing what you want them to do! They are not ditching the pain YOU caused fast enough, and they are not forgetting what you did to them fast enough, either.



So BNW, here's the plan.

I do agree that you don't back out of the lives of your children. They need both parents in their lives.

I also would like you to understand something else. It isn't your right to go in your BS's home and read her prescription bottles. For the record, however, antidepressants are prescribed for many conditions - not only for depression. It might serve you to ask your BS about her condition. IF you are trying to atone, and IF you are so concerned, then ask HER. Why do you find it necessary to go behind her back to her family? An open and honest relationship is built between the two people in the relationship.

Somehow I think that you conceal things from her, and from your family, and her reason for not talking to you about these things is because you have the attitude you demonstrated in this event ----- you read the bottle, assumed she was depressed, didn't talk to her even when she was right there, jumped to conclusions, and then started considering all sorts of things you might want to do behind her back.

Gee. Not really your "trust-building" exercise, huh?


Another way to have handled it: You see she's sick, you ASK her about her surgery, out of GENUINE concern. You don't ask - you just get her water, put it by her so she can reach it, get the phone and remote control and make sure they are in her reach. Put an extra blanket nearby, and a pillow too. Put the medicine bottle near her. Sit down and take her hand and ask her if she needs anything else, can you fix dinner or go get some for her and the kids?

And tell her that you PUT A CHECK FOR SOME EXTRA MONEY ON TOP OF THE COUNTER IN THE KITCHEN, BECAUSE YOU KNOW SHE WILL NEED SOMETHING.

Maybe after that, you ask her about her medicine, and if it might be affecting how she feels. Because you DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WHY SHE IS TAKING IT. It might be that she is taking it for something that has nothing to do with depression - and you have assumed the whole thing.

How's that for starters?



Schoolbus

Hmmmm....well, most of the things you wrote in red...I just don't think that. I will continue Plan A...and I accept the situation as is...I haven't fully put the "ideal scenario" to bed...just watching and observing and acting to build some accountability. I will do it indefinitely....I can't discern wants because there is no real communication, but enough information has been discussed here that I have gleaned enough to continue to try.

I get so much inconsistent advice from members here it's hard to wade through....I am going with my gut on this...I will be an active and involved parent. Period. I am not purposefully invading my BW's space, I am at times invited in....I will capitalize on those moments to support the family because it is right. Period. Those are opportunities to demonstrate difference to everyone. I will continue.

My notice of the bottle was simply that....and with a hx of mood issues, I of course became concerned. I don't have enough rapport to address...I shared my concern only...and I am glad I did....My ability to demonstrate nurturing is of course hindered by the fact we no longer live together, but I did as much as you suggest within my ability (took kids so BW could rest, offered to bring supper....I consistently contribute to the financial welfare...THAT will never be an issue...and it is gross to think many men here withhold as power....)...

No pity here...just regret. I don't look to anyone in my family to excuse, forgive, ignore....I live with what happened....and will try to model change. I do that by doing what I can NOW....I know BW not in same place...of course....regardless, I will continue to act....I don't think reconciliation is a possibility here...tho I always will hope for it....It is what it is....and I will address whatever is presented to me in that moment...whether my BW expresses sadness, anger...or courtesy. I don't have some expectation of a timeline for resolution...I am just sad....I also experience feelings in this...Likely this expression will set up a firestorm of "so what" messages...but it is where I am at...and Yesterday, was a nicer, better day...I was glad for the experience of it and thanked my BW for it...

Schoolbus sooooo called you.

By your response you proved every word.

I.........hate.............your .........stupid........................................................typing............style...........

You are full of big words.

You sound so pompous and full of..............................yourself.

If Pariah is on your case, you are in some big trouble, bud.

Let me guess............if you took the MyersBriggs test, you would have to be an ISTJ. I bet your wife is and ENFP.

You have so hurt this woman that it is impossible for her to recover without it taking years. I say this because I empathize with your wife or ex-wife. I was married to a man who wouldn't own his bad choices, who thought he was all that and a bag of chips when really he was nothing more than a pile of shoe scrapings.



(Well, I guess there are some poeple out there who didn't know I could go off like that. Hmm...

So my writing style or word choice offends? I really don't know how to address that IAM...and I am unclear as to the relevance...

Interesting you bring up the MB...the test provides information re: interpersonal behavior, personality type etc...We all have differences....I thought this site accepted, without judgment, the variety of individual's who visit and share....but if we are deteriorating to the point that there is so much focus on incidental aspects of the communication...well..what's the point. I am NOT your husband....and I do feel your projecting some of that on to me....I am here asking questions, trying out suggestions...and it is a process of continuing education...

What I need are active suggestions about how to support during this difficult time...I have waded through criticism from my writing style (you think my words are "too big"..someone else said "too flowery"...I mean...I think it's a big off track and not as relevant to the goal of working a plan......Lot's of discussion about my alleged use of acronyms...which solely was based on a lack of understanding of what all the letters mean...It is very frustrating that no matter what is said, it seems it many times is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario....I have found I have had to try and edit my thoughts so much...due to the anticipated firestorm of venom, that I can't process any information well...I can't learn here, I don't think....

You don't have to believe my intentions. I know what I am trying to do. I am trying to be different. I will continue to be...even though MEDC would say "who gives a crap go kill yourself"....not gonna happen. I will stand in place and continue to show my family I am different...and I will be the person they want me to be....

School Bus offered some great pracitical suggestions...which were well considered and smart... I already had implemented most and tried the others...I welcome that kind of feedback...its a recipe to follow....makes sense.

Dude,

You are going to get eaten alive if you are not careful. I am so not smart enough to pick up whether you are real or not, remorseful or not, one sex over the other or just plain sincere as to what you have done.

I feel like people have answered you, some more point blank than others and you either are not liking the answers or simply are not getting it.

You hurt your spouse, you destroyed their world and they were left to pick up the pieces and survive the very best way they could. I think you are saying you have come to know what you have done, but I'm not sure.

Your spouse is still going through the pain of what has happened, they are walking through it the very best way they can. It might not be what I would do, you would do or anyone else would do, but they are doing what they can - and that is their right.

If you are sincere and you have done what you can, it's time to leave it in G-ds hands. You can't control their reaction or action to anything you do or don't do. You can't fix this for them, they have to walk through it.

I hope you are sincere and want to learn. And if you do, you are getting advice, take it and work with it.

that's pretty much where I am at with it...

I'm not going to bash you.

I think schoolbus hit the nail on the head. What he described describes my WWEX to the letter.

It's easy for us as BSes to bash you. You did a very bad thing, but I don't hear you justifying it.

I also won't bash your writing style.

You're one of the very few WHes that has ever come on these boards.

What I sense from you is a real lack of understanding of the amount of pain you've inflicted on your BW.

It's only human. You haven't experienced this from the receiving end. It's hard for you to understand fully.

As a BS I can tell you how I felt and what your BW is likely feeling:

I felt sick. I literally felt like I was about to throw up regularly. So I didn't eat much for about a month after the discovery of the infidelity.

BS is likely fighting the images in her head. For men and women the images are different. Men have a harder time stopping the images of the sexual encounters and the sexual betrayal. Women have a hard time with the emotional connections and romantic feelings shared with OW. Both have problems with both types of images, but the degree and focus of the pain varies with the sexes. This is generally speaking, of course.

She's probably numb and lost at the complete upending of her world. She's single again. She has kids that depend on her. She probably feels like just laying in bed and staring at the wall for hours at a time, but responsibilities force her to get up. She's a zombie going through the motions of living.

Work beckons, but you don't want to do it. The kids need caring for, but you find yourself forgetting to do basic things. I had my own moment with my kids that brought me to tears because my brain was so numb that I was forgetting to do things.

I cooked a meal for my 2 YO sons shortly after D day. I put it in the freezer to cool it down before giving it to the boys. I completely forgot about it and the boys didn't eat very much. I coudlnt' understand why they were so grumpy till I went to make them dinner and found the frozen lunch in the freezer. I realized they were grumpy from not having eaten lunch and being hungry. I was so wrapped up in my pain that I forgot to feed them their lunch. I felt horrible and cried for having neglected my son's need while I was crying and dealing with the shock of infidelity and the WW I was living with.

She's also likely going through the difficulty of just doing day to day things. Her house is probably a mess because she doesn't feel like cleaning.

Things that were distractions and joys now do nothing for her. My personal escape is playing video games or reading. I couldn't do either after D day.

Her mind is probably racing with thoughts or is numb because it hurts too much to think.

You, as a WS, can't understand this level of pain. You know you inflicted it, but you can't understand it.

My exww gets a deer staring at the headlights look when I express my pain over what she did. She can't understand what I mean when I say, "I haven't been ok in two years."

"How can I not be ok? It's been two years?" I'm sure she thinks this.

But life has been turned upside down; New jobs, new friends, new relationships, a quiet house, being alone when you thought you had a companion for life, the absence of children, the absence of the wife/husband you knew and loved.

I'm not saying any of this to bash you. People are doing too much of that in my opinion. I'm saying this in the hopes that you can get some idea of the pain.

Having you express remorse is good, but you need to express it to her. Tell her over and over that you're sorry for what you did.

Do it non stop. Apologize without any "but" or justifications. There are no, "I'm sorry, but...."

Yes, Plan A, but you must go beyond that. You must wholy accept the terrible actions that have inflicted upon her and you must verbalize it to her. This is the number one thing you can do to help her heal and have her feel better towards you. My therapist says that a betrayer often doesn't understand why the betrayed can't "just get over it" or "geez, it's been x amount of time!"

The betrayed needs to hear that apology for healing to really take place. Or the betrayed must find a way to accept that the apology will never come and find a way to move on from the injustice they've suffered.

So I'm sharing these thoughts with you as a betrayed husband. I'm not doing it to bash you or guilt trip you. I'm doing it so you can understand what you've done and have an idea of what she's going through.

We are too quick to bash waywards on this board. Many times the bashing is deserved. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're genuinely concerned for your BW. You simply don't understand the magnitude of the pain.

But I'll respect the fact that you take responsibility, and that is the least we can ask of you on these boards.

t/j

t/j over




I'd bet on that!

A lot to digest here P....thank you for your long reply.

I feel like I am walking a tighrope...I don't want to antagonize, but I don't want to miss an opportunity to support...or state what you suggest. For example, recently had an anniversary...both of the time of proposal and wedding...I wasn't sure how or if to acknowledge....If I don't, am I the ***hole....If I do...everyone here is telling me to leave it alone. Those days started our family, of which I am enormously proud and feel blessed...just wanted BW to know what I was thinking...whether it was right or not...

You gave me a lot of insight into the mind of someone who experienced...I also experienced some of what you describe in the relationship I was in prior to my marriage....so it is even "grosser" to have been the victimizer here....and I am trying to process the choice to engage...and how to avoid such in the future.

I want to know how to do Plan A+...but I can't get my mind around it when everyone here is telling me to go off and die....I am not going to do that....I am going to try and show the difference...I don't expect a return....it's for them whether its accepted or not....and it is for me in that I don't want to be that person....All I want to do now is raise my kids with my BW as best we can, be a resource for BW if she asks or needs...work, confine the damage...protect now the best I can...
Try to accomodate the person that committed such actions...with who I believe I was and want to be...

What would she have done that would have facilitated your comfort?

bnw,

You are seeking to understand how to seek forgiveness from another person.


A huge undertaking.


Each of us has both given and sought forgiveness in our lives.

Both sides of this task are difficult.

You are seeking forgiveness for probably one of the greatest acts of betrayal you could commit against a person.

I think you have your work cut out for you. You've said that communication between the two of you is not so good. I'm not surprised by that. Don't take this the wrong way, but if your writing style reflects the way you talk, you have a long way to go to be seen as a "straight talker".

As an analyst, I would say that you circumlocute, and are purposely vague. This makes it possible for you to argue with others that what they gleaned from your message "wasn't what you meant".

For your BW, you likely just wear her out, and she gives up and says, "Whatever, I just don't want to talk about it anymore. You win." She knows that she cannot believe what you say, and you will have a twist on what you've said anyway - even if she does make sense of it once you get through with overwhelming her with your rambling sentences and elipses, as well as the extraneous details not necessarily attached to topic.

It might help you to look at a local community college course in speech communications, interpersonal communications, or that type of course to improve your ability to talk with her. Counseling might also help, with a psychologist who specializes in this. There are also speech-language pathologists who might help you.


That covers communication.

Honesty is the second area. I wonder how much your BW feels that she can trust what you say? Does what you do match what you say? Are you reliable?

In other words, do you do what you say you are going to do, when you say you're going to do it? Or do you go back on your word often enough that the kids can't depend on you to be there, the check is late too frequently, etc.?

Have you fully disclosed all of the details of the affair to her, or have you just let it all go? Have you truthfully answered her questions? Are there any lies out there between the two of you - lies that you still need to confess?


Emotional needs is last.

My FWH has gone on a one-man campaign to meet my emotional needs. Of course, you can't meet all of hers. But you can do things for her and the kids that show care and compassion. You can do these things without being asked to do them, and without the expectation of being thanked for doing them. When my FWH started doing this stuff, I was angry at him, and hurt. I really didn't want him to do any of it. Actually, it kind of pi$$ed me off that he was doing them, because I really wanted to sort of wallow in my anger!

But he just kept being nice. He kept doing the right things, over and over. Fixing things. Cooking. Picking up things for the house. Making the bed. Doing the things that he knew filled my love bank.

You can do the things she needs to be done - the manly things. Fix fences, cars, plumbing. Show up with the tools because you noticed the window was stuck. Fix it when you pick up the kids, and leave with them. Get her permission, of course.


I know it's hard to hear some of the things I have to say. But they are what I see. You can take them or leave them. I call it as I see it. Straight up.

SB

I gave you one......move....away......far...far....away

What a selfish wayward you are!