Hope,

I've been reading and sorry about how DS15 has been. On the bright side he is only 15 and will realize in a few years what a poo head he was. In other words, he'll mature and out grow this phase.

No expert on Plan B but are you suppose to be thinking about WH? Sounds like this is a great time to nurture your garden. Pick up that book that you've been dieing to read. Does your bedroom need a new coat of paint to brighten it up? (A fresh coat of paint always brightens my mood - I like to listen to a book on tape while I'm painting to past the time and keep me from over thinking things.)

Stay strong Hope.

You're right will wipe him from my mind.I'm going to do some things round the house now..thanks for checking in ..will chat later.Hows it going your side?

This is an observation that you and I can BOTH learn to be better at. WAY BETTER....

Sometimes we just need reminders. Guess that means I should pop over to yours and make sure you are not breaking plan B...

Things are good over here for me. After talking with my husbands brother and SIL he feels like a weight is lifted. This was the last thing he needed and now has no qualms about being together. Its odd because we don't really need to work on much, just maintaining what we had before, so it feels strange. But I can say, even though it scared me to talk to BIL & SIL I feel better too...can only imagine how much better my hubby feels (and I can see it in his face).

Hey, this thought just crossed my mind. To help keep thoughts clear maybe read a fun book together and have your own little MB Book Club. Make sure the books are not relationship centered. You need a break from that time to time.

I LOVE reading and have a wide taste. Happy to recommend books.

Hey Queenie nice of you to pop by...you have always been there for me from the word go....you don't know how much I appreciated you standing by me through my darkest moments...
I always read your thread and keep up to date with your situation..you have a great support system around you...

jlr1120 glad to hear things are going great your side.When the kids are a link thats never going to go away,its hard to totally forget about WH.After DS15 spoke of wanting to live with WH it makes you think about WH.....anyway at least thoughts of WH don't upset me anymore.I am moving on...

I do read although not as much as I used to...

Maybe this is where believer can help. If I remember correctly she does plan B with kids.

I don't think you could ever forget about WH...you spent many years together and have wonderful sons together...plan B is for you. I can't imagine that thinking about WH is good for YOU when it involves 'what if's'.

I tend to agree with believer that the A will come to an end but until then try not to dwell on the 'what if's'. Easier said than done...

And when it comes to an end it is up to you if you are still in a place of wanting to recover your marriage or if recovering yourself was just what the doctor ordered.

jlr I don't want to jump the gun here BUT if WH wanted to come back...I'd only consider it if his attitude was sincere...that said I was really shocked that believer said it would end in 3 months or so...it would be nice but I would get the shock of my life!!!LOL

At the moment I'm just glad to have my DS15 back home and being his old self..I feel so helpless when he is hurting and it really makes me spiral downwards and feel guilty that this cr@p is happening to us....

Plan B has really helped me get my sanity back...I was desperate at one stage,thought I'd never move on and recover...
I have realised that even when we can't control what happens in our lives WE WILL BE OK!!

I always feared the unknown before now I say BRING IT ON...I'M READY!!!!!LOL

You are doing so good. What a transformation in you.

I'm honored to know you and watch this.

Thanks Queenie...I was reading my old posts and I could hear the panic and upset in them.I'm so glad I found this site..don't know where I'd be without it...I know my friends think I'm nuts listening to people I don't even know...I just secretly laugh at them!!

I tell my kids this is like their "mixit" (chat line on their cellphones),then they get it!!They weren't used to seeing their mom on the computer...typing SO slowly.. LOL am faster now though!

And I always will be or as long as you need me to.

You are welcome. You are important to me and we are in this together because we are helping each other get through this.

How are things going, Hope and Pray. Hope your younger son is behaving better. I really think you want to nip the disrespect and yelling in the bud.

If he keeps it up, let him live with dad for awhile. It is bad for him to make decisions while angry and bounce back and forth.

Believer,DS15 is back to his old self..helping me round the house and being polite...just hope it lasts.He said he never phoned WH to come fetch him after our fight so I am relieved that WH was kept out of this.It would just be something else for him to throw at me.
It seems that whenever DS15 comes home from being with WH he has this bad attitude.

Last night DS18 had a 80's party here at home with some of his school friends.The girls dressed up in 80's fashion and the music was from the 80's!!I had a good laugh at them all as the 80's in my era...
The neighbours must have thought I was having a party!!
I'm going to a barbaque tonight at friends which will be fun...boys are coming too.
Its back to school on monday so the old routine will kick in...at least my house will be free off teenage boys who have an unending appetite!!

Oh, good, I'm glad he is back to normal. You really can't tolerate that or HE will be running the house.

I told you about my son who went to stay with his dad after 16 years of no contact. After 3 months, he snapped right out of that.

And we had problems with my 3rd oldest step-daughter. Whenever she didn't like the rules, she threatened to live with her mom who is a drug addict. She started skipping school and my ex would take her in the morning and she would leave and go to her mom's. And of course, mom welcomed her with open arms because then WE had to pay $500. a month child support. Daughter ended up no graduating from highschool.

Hope you didn't miss this post by Spacecase, one of the veterans.

Here's one from Frank Pittman's "Private Lies":


quote:
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In the book Private Lies by Dr. Frank Pittman, he has a very good summary of reasons why second marriages between persons involved in an affair very seldom succeed.

Generally he notes that disasters are only inevitable when people use romance to jump from marriage to marriage without a rest stop between. He says that there is something inherently doomed in those marriages that begin as marriage-wrecking affairs.

He noted that in his practice while over half the people who get into romantic affairs end up divorced, only one-fourth marry the affairee. It is likely that over three-fourths of these affair marriages end up in divorce. He says that there is a greater likelihood that the divorcing partner will be back with the original spouse in five years that that the romantic affair will be a stable marriage at that time.

He gives 12 reasons for this phenomenon:
• Intervention of reality
• Guilt
• Disparity of sacrifice
• Expectations
• General distrust of marriage
• Distrust of affairee
• Divided loyalties
• The nature of infidels
• The nature of affairees
• Romance
• Scapegoating the betrayed
• Unshared history

Out of 100 couples, (Pittman’s sample in his book private lies)
He said 50% of affairs couples divorced.
But, only 12% (12) actually married OP.
And then 75% of those failed (12*.75)= 9
Thus only 3 married betrayers are left

These are the defects he lists for marriages between the spouse and the OP.

1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.

2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.

3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.

4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.

5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.

6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.

7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.

8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.

9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.

10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.

11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.

12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks Believer I did read that,very interesting..I'm going to print it out to keep.
I so hope this affair ends..although I really can't see it happening...logic is prevailing here.I'm not looking for any validation here..its just that I wish I had a glimmer of hope from WH...

I have to go out now,will check in later

You need to just keep enduring and trust that the affair will end. Stay out of the way. While it may seem like they are happily living in fantasyland, reality has a way of intruding. Soon they will start arguing, LB'ing and disappointing each other.

Hubby will be under a lot of stress with no job. Men's jobs often define them and have a lot to do with their self-esteem. At some point he is going to start thinking of all that the affair has cost him. Trust in that.

I had a lovely evening with friends and my boys last nght.DS15 was really enjoying himself and I could see that WH wasn't on his mind.Such a relief..

Believer,what you said about mens jobs and their self-esteem is SO TRUE with WH.His father never ever gave him any praise or approval for anything he had achieved in his life.His father was a miserable selfish man.I know it hurt WH very much as I have been with him since he was 18 and have witnessed this.WH has always done well in his career and was about to have his dream forfilled by buying the distributer
ship for the branch he was running...Money and material things like cars were NB to him although he would never admit it.He always drove a BMW or Mercedes,belongs to golf club etc...and always strived for more...Personally I think he needs God in his life to fill that void,but thats another journey....
It would be his worst nightmare to have to work under someone else...he has been the boss for the last 20 years!!!WH is a sensitive person which I think has to do with low self-esteem...he comes across as life of the party kind of guy but he is actually quite insecure at times..I know him well.
Personally I wouldn't want to be around WH now with the stress he must be under....

My ex was the same way. He had a horrible dad that ignored him, had an affair and moved away with his OW. My ex is well liked, is outgoing and fun, but he DOES have low self-esteem - you would never believe it by watching him.

I still say the affair will end. And soon.

Its 9am here and I've just got back from dropping the boys at school.I'm back at work today but I'm working the afternon/night shift.My week off work was relaxing..pity there was no money for a trip away!!..but was nice to be with the boys.

Last night WH phoned the boys and asked them if he could fetch them on thursday afternoon as friday is his birthday.Its his weekend to have the boys.DS18 will come home sat. morning as its his matric dance(prom) on sat night.Im going to wait for the boys to ask me to give them money to buy WH a present...I am so broke...DS18 said they will most probably go out for dinner.5 teenage boys and 2 adults will cost WH a fortune...
I explained to the boys that their pocket money will have to be cut in half as we have to tighten our belts.I suggested they ask WH for money and I got a lot of sighs and moans.Why won't they ask him?Irritates the hell out of me..I explained that WH DOES have money and they just cut me off.

Anyway,I'm not going to send any greetings to WH for his birthday...
Believer thank you for your positive posts they do help me so much.