Oh good Lord Dm,


You need to get off the forums and go back and read everything on this site about plan A and plan B.

Does everthing have to be filtered thru your WW before your can actually act and make a decision for yourself?

I know this is harsh, but you really have voluntered to be your WW's doormat.

If you want to attend the shower, just go, without considering the feelings of a WW wife who doesn't give two sh@@t's about what you think.

Come on DM, you need to grow a pair. You are not helping yourself or your M with this wimp attitude.

Sorry if this hurts. But you need lumber up the side of your head.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Well, I tried my best, but everything has been called off...

This weekend was going to be my final effort at plan A, but I didn't make it. I had a lot of things planned out for us that I was going to surprise her with including $350 show tickets. I knew it wouldn't change things, but as you know, I wanted to end with the best plan A possible.

She IM'd me this morning and said she has to go out of town for work and couldn't make the trip. I asked if she told them that she already had plans.. she said no, but there's nothing she can do because it's for work and said I should understand that. I know where she works, I know her boss and the people there. I know for a fact they would not impose something like this on her at the last minute. I don't believe any part of this story and I called her out on it. I don't know where she is really going, but I'm assuming the worst and I don't know what else I can do.

I told her everything I had planned for us and she asked why I did those things and that I should've asked her first. I told her it was going to be a surprise and that I had asked her on friday if we were still on for the trip. She confirmed, so I moved ahead with the plan.

I asked if she is sure she can't go and she said she'll have to take a rain check. I told her there can not be a rain check on this and she said fine. I also told her I can't continuing doing this and that I would be done. She said she is done too and she never never asked me for anything. The she told me to do what I need to do, so i said i will.. and "goodbye."

Yes, its my fault for not being in plan b already. I should've been there a long time ago. I hesitated too long. I got duped into a false recovery. I screwed up and I know there are a lot of people out there who are going to think "I told you so." I was afraid that I wasn't ready, I wanted it to be perfect, I wanted to know that I had the best chances of keeping this together.

So I don't know what my plan is now. I don't have a plan B letter to give her and I dont know if it is even worth the effort now. I'm sill sitting here trying to write one, but I don't have any hope that it would make the slightest bit of difference. All she'll do is look for reasons to use it against me.

As of this minute, I don't plan on contacting her ever again. I'm debating if I should just file the D or let her do it. Maybe it will finally put things into perspective for her if I do. It's a long shot and if it doesnt do anything then I guess it's for the best.

I don't know what I'm feeling right now. I think I'm in shock because I don't feel anything. Whatever she's deciding to do this weekend is out of my control and she is putting the final dagger into our marriage... or whatevers left of it.

Any thoughts on what I should now?

I haven't spoken to WW since yesterday when she cancelled our plans for the weekend. I couldn't cancel the trip without losing money, so a friend is now going with me.

WW texted me after our spat to say "Im Sorry" to which I never responded. "sorry" meaning, sorry she hurt me.

I've blocked her from my IM and I'm not sure, but I think she blocked me too. So I guess I'm in some sort of plan B at the moment.

I realize I need to let go now. I'm seriously considering filing the D. I figure if it doesnt shake her up and open her eyes, it's all over anyway. So why not get it going and be done with it?

I could use some advice..
am I just a day late and a buck short?

thanks.

Just got back from my vacay DM. Sorry to hear about the developments, I was thinking about you while I was gone. I was hopeful after reading the first few posts after I left, but it seems it all went to he77 after that...

How's it going over there now?

E.

Don't do anything rash because your feelings are hurt and you are very upset.

Good luck and I'm sure some others who are more experienced than me will help

Thanks, E. and welcome back from your vacay. I hope things went well for you.

I don't think I'm doing anything rash. I've been thinking about this for a long time. I could do plan B and wait, but I honestly don't think it will change her. I think it would just give her time to find someone else and she'd probably end up filing the D herself. That would rip away the last bit of dignity that I have left.

I've decided that I'm ready to file. No, it's not what I want, but what I want seems too far out of my reach. She's no where close to realizing anything and maybe she never will. I can't keep trying to show her the way. She has to find it on her own.

She shut down on me again and we haven't spoken since last monday. She's been gone this whole week. She said she was going out of town for work, but who knows if that's true or not.

I know it's not over until everythings signed and processed, so I still have a tiny shred of hope left, but I need to start living my life. I think I've recently made some pretty big strides with self recovery. The pain is there still, but not that bad. I think I've lost a lot of my feelings for her as well.

I still love my DW and I would do anything for her if she found herself again, but I can't do anything more for the person that she is right now.

Thanks for all the advice here. Maybe I'll start posting in the D forum soon.

I'm so terribly sorry DM. I don't know what else to say other han I will keep you in my prayers.

DM,

You need to move to plan B. You've plan A'd waaaay too long.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by writing your plan B letter and then going dark.

Give it 6 months or so (don't tell her) and stay dark, dark, dark.

If, after 6 months (or however long you can stand it) you get nothing, then file.

You'll look back and say that you tried. Going to D without plan B will cause you to look back and wonder if you did all you could.

You've done enough. The decision is yours either way, but your wife has been cake eating for a looooong time.

Time to stop it.

I dont have much time to post right now, but I'm thinking hard about this. I need to make a huge stand here. Maybe a Plan B/D letter?

If it's plan B, I think it will be a short one.

Good to hear from you, Pom.

Time for a plan B letter. You must go completely dark. Use a go between if you have children and anything else.

No phone, texts, IM, email, only NC. Till WW gives up the OM.

Plan B letters do not mention divorce. One thing at a time. Try to do plan B for 6 months.

The Road, there is no OM. After 3 months of trying to get back together WW said ILYBINILWY. She never recommitted to the marriage and my plan A went bad since I saw no effort from her.

She still hasn't shown any remorse for what she's done or takes responsibility for it. She just says she doesn't feel that way for me anymore and she was trying to get those feelings back.

If there was still an OM, there would be no question. D would be filed and I would be done. All of these plans are meant to break up an A, but since there isn't one, I'm not sure what to do anymore.

I've plan A'd for a long time. Now we haven't seen each other in almost a month and havent talked in over a week. Feels like I'm back to square one. I feel so distant from her again which is why I'm not sure if plan B will have any effect any more.

That's why I'm thinking plan D and B at the same time. If it doesn't work, it's time to move on any way. What more can I do?

DM,

The problem you have is called "paralysis though analysis".

You're like McClellan pursuing the Confederates. Fear is keeping you frozen. Your attitude is that, "If I can only get X more divisions, then I can attack."

You already outnumber the enemy 3 to 1 but your fear keeps you thinking you are the one who is outnumbered and that you're going to get your butt kicked if you take any action.

So the answer is not to continue with fear. The answer is to go to Plan B which has nothing to do with divorce. Plan B does lead you to a fork in the road. That's the end of Plan B. You get to a fork in the road where you have to make a decision. That decision is to either divorce and move on with your life or it is to continue on Plan B and waiting.

So what do you do while you wait for the W to wakeup? You work on you. You shield yourself from the abuse of the spouse.

What you're doing is the equivalent of trying to get in shape with your wife by running outside in a never ending run. You get punished by the elements in your quest. It rains, snows, storms and beats you down. Your W joins you sometimes. She's supposed to be on this run with you, but she simply teases you with joining you while she follows her own route.

So what do you do while she's gone? You go out looking for her. You run through woods, mountains, and deserts. You see no sign of her. You neglect to eat and take care of yourself. You're getting dehydrated and if you don't do something soon you'll die and you won't give a hoot if your W joins you on your run or not anymore.

So plan B is like finding an indoor track. You can run in there on your own, shielded from the elements. You have a nice little food bar to recharge your batteries and the weather, the sun, the storms, and punishment you get from the outside is gone. You're in a safe place. Sure, you start the run on the indoor track thinking that it would be nice if the W was with you, but after a while of running and enjoying the comfort of the indoor track you start to realize that it's W's loss that she still wants to stay lost outside and not join you.

At the end of the day, once you finish your run, you can decide to continue working out and wait to see if the W joins you inside or abandon running altogether and take up some other activity. (The run, obviously, is your marriage).

But right now you are poking yourself in the eye over and over. You have to let go of her. We're not telling you to D. That is a massive step to take before trying Plan B. Plan B will lead you to your answer. Plan B gives you a chance to recover things or prepare yourself for D.

Give Plan B a chance. But don't implement a crappy one. You need to remove WW from IM, not just block her. You need to block any and all access or source of info on her that you have. No more texts. No more IMs. No more looking at Myspace or the equivalent.

Anything that gives you insight into her needs to be cutoff.

You'll feel good after a while of doing this. You'll start to heal.

Your WW will notice your absence. You have kept her feeling that you're her safety net to return because you're so available.

We've been giving you the answers you need for months, but you're to afraid to take our advice.

Paralysis through analysis needs to end and you must take action.

Pom,
I agree, so now I have a lot of questions...

First..
We have some loose ends that I need to tie up.

She still has a lot of her personal stuff in the garage. clothes, shoes, purses, wedding dress, her old photo albums as well as our wedding albums, videos and 15 years worth of pictures that we've taken together.

I've asked her to pick up her things on several occassions in the past, but I let it go when we were back to seeing each other. I asked her again when she called it off and she doesn't cooperate. She says she's too busy right now and doesn't have a truck, but thats BS because her sister and BIL both have SUVs she could borrow. Should I just take them to her house for her or should I tell her she needs to pick them up. She also said she doesnt have a place to store all of that stuff, which is true but that shouldn't be my problem, should it? I almost want to drop everything off on her driveway with the pbl.

Financially we are pretty separated now, but her car is financed under my name. She is paying the bills, but I want her to finance it under her name since I am liable for it. Again, I've told her to do this before, but she hasnt done it. There are other small things that need to be taken care of, but i can deal with those.

As for plan B letter...

Should I mention the A's in them and bring it all up? One of her concerns about getting back together was that I would bring it up and hold it over her whenever we fought or argued, etc..
I know that is foggy BS, but I tried not to bring it up when we were seeing each other. However, it did come out a few times because she brings up all of these things that I did in the past, but refuses to look at herself and what she did to me. It was ridiculous double standard that I was getting fed up with.

It looks like she's back in town today. She's online. Neither of us have talked in almost 2 weeks. I am going to block her once I give her the letter. I just want to know what I should do about the other stuff or if I should just let it all go for now because I also don't want to tip her off about plan B.

DM, seriously, you're driving me crazy with indecision.

Decide on something and execute. Want to take all her crap to her house? Then do that. Want to keep it locked up in your house? Fine.

Want to put it out with the garbage? All good.

The car? Pick it up. It's yours if it's registered to you.

Why? Because she's losing the privileges of being a wife and having you pay for things is out of the question now.

You should absolutely bring up the affairs and how much they hurt you. Then lay down the path she must follow to return. That should include remorse, NC letters to both affair partners, and a return to the marital home with no guilt trips for your past transgressions. Nothing compares to her betrayals and she must own them.

Let her know you can forgive her, but she must take ownership of them.

As for all the stuff? Just do something. I like the dropping it off on her driveway idea.

And for Pete's sake, delete her from messenger.

I will be a happy man when you finally grow a pair and take some action. I don't do this to bash you. I say this stuff in the hopes you wake up.

I'm rooting for you and simply want to see you be a man.

Marital debt is mutual debt and you won't be screwed in a divorce, if it comes to that. You're still technically married so if she stops paying, then she'll be liable just as much as you, though your credit will be hurt if payments aren't made. If the car is in your name, then by all means go pick it up.

These "little details" you mention are excuses to not act.

Will she be mad? Hell yes. You're shoving her off the fence and taking away her cake. But she'll respect you for it because you aren't a doormat anymore.

Seriously, she wants to see you be a man. You haven't been for a really long time. So grow a pair and take some action.

Pom,
This isn't about fear anymore... atleast not fear of her. I know that's been the case in the past. I know im being indecisive, but its only because I want to do this right. So maybe there is fear of not doing the plan right, but thats about it.

I'm ready for plan b or even d for that matter because there's nothing else left to do. Obviously, I dont want either of these plans, but I'm all out of options.

This is my last ditch effort before I file a D. For me, it's not about protecting myself from her abuse. There's no more A going on and she's not looking to get her ENs filled from me. Yes, she's being a psycho [censored] and says crazy fog babble if we do R talk, but that wouldn't happen unless I brought it up. We have distanced ourselves now and she isn't even trying to contact me. I've already been through the worst of the pain this year (i hope), so I just want to move one way or the other now. Right now, I just want to give her my letter to tell her how I feel and be done with it. I think I just botched everything up anyway.

I just called to tell her that I'm clearing out the garage and asked when she can pick up her things. I decided that I want her to do it herself. She said she would do it next saturday, but then she became completely pissed and started yelling at me. I asked what she's so mad about and she said im being childish and this is just my way of trying to be mean to her. That the house is basically empty and there is plenty of room in the garage and I'm just being a a-hole.

I told her I'm not trying to be mean or to hurt her. I just need to clear out the garage to do some work on the house and I'm moving a lot of my things out as well. She didn't buy that at all. So she said if I really want her to get her stuff out she'll get it next saturday and we can be done with all of this.
Then she hung up on me.

She texted a little later asked about some money that I owe her because we filed our taxes jointly (her idea) and I haven't given her tax return yet. I know this isnt about the money, but I told her I would write her a check. We went back and forth for a little bit and she was flying off the handle, so in the end I just told her that she's the one taking us down this path and that im just cooperating with her now. Was that a mistake to say?

I guess i just have to call her out now. She's the one that says she wants a divorce, but hasn't done anything about it.

I'm still planning to give her the letter next week before she picks up her stuff. I wont be home next weekend and she knows how to get into the garage.

Is this whole thing just a disaster or what?

She's not acting like your wife so don't treat her like she is.

She should also not be giving you crap about getting rid of her stuff.

Think about it. She lives elsewhere, is dating other guys, and is mad that you want her to get her stuff?

Make any sense?

You can't screw things up right now. They're messed up. But you will really get her flying off the handle soon.

My concern is that you don't have the self discipline to execute a truly dark plan B.

You also still engage with her in "logical" ways. There is no logic in dealing with her. Take her stuff and put it out with the garbage or drop it off at her place.

Going dark is good for you as well because it shields you from this stuff.

She's going to try and break it by coming up with excuses.

She'll say she needs to talk to you about taxes and stuff like that. Well, you can talk to her about your joint taxes when she decides to be your wife again.

Here's the thing: That money belongs to the marriage. If you decide you want to buy a Playstation 3 and a bunch of games with that money for the "marriage" then you have every legal right to do so. You're not out of bounds to do so.

Will it tick her off? Absolutely.

But who cares?

She's gone around and screwed other guys while playing with your heart and you are the one who is scared of getting her mad.

I can relate to you in many ways because I lived in fear of my ex and her anger for a long time. I trusted her for far too long after our D and she really cleaned me out because of that trust by taking most of our money out of our account. Why was I so stupid? Because I was emotinally numb and not thinking and still trusting her to have an ounce of decency. Well, she didn't and I paid dearly for it. The truth is that she was smarter than I was about this stuff. She had every right to those funds since we had a joint account.

My point to you is to make sure you understand that you have nothing to fear. She will go NUTS when you go dark.

I question if you'll be able to handle that anger and the rants.

I would be prepared to call the cops on her if she shows up at your place to yell at you or anything of the sort.

She wants to go down this path, yet she treats you with the familiarity of someone who doesn't want to separate.

Would you ever just show up at someone's house and start yelling at them? She feels she can treat you this way and you're the reason why. You let her.

So don't. Go dark. Get rid of her crap. Give her the letter and then get rid of IM and any source of info she has about your life.

Best of luck.

When you goto plan B, you might just move all her stuff to a U-Haul storage area, Pay for a months worth of rent.

Let her know she can pick it up from there, It also removes her "stuff" as a reason to try and break plan B.

Yeah, your paying for a months worth of storage, but she can either pick it up or lose it when they auction if off for her refusal to pay the next months rent should she decide to leave it there.

TJ

Sorry DM. RMX, D-Day number 2? When did this happen? What is your status?

TJ over

Sorry, I had to take a break from posting...

I'm just about ready to go with plan B. I'm going to get her things together on one side of the garage since she's supposed to pick them up on Saturday. I don't plan on being there, so I'll leave the letter for her to find (if she comes). I think she will come though, just to prove a point. She probably plans to come, pick up her things and not speak to me for (who knows how long). But she's going to find my letter instead. Not sure how all of this will work out....

I honestly don't expect her to go nuts or try to break my plan when she gets the letter. I would actually welcome that, so I could atleast see that she cares a little. I feel like I've already been in plan B for a a couple of weeks except when we talked last saturday and I told her she needs to get her things. As I mentioned, she didnt take that well. She went ape [censored] and started screaming that I was being childish because i have plenty of space and she has nowhere to store it. She said she would come this saturday and once that's done we wont ever need to talk again.

So neither of us have tried to contact each other. There were a few times where I almost broke down and called, but I've held my ground.

As usual, I still have my doubts, so I'm going through with this without much confidence. The only other option that I've been thinking about is giving her the D papers.

I'm pretty sure I can be dark, but will this have a big enough impact on her? My plan A ended a month ago, we've barely talked or seen each other and our last conversation was a disaster.

I could use some encouragement here... or advice... anything.

If i do plan b, i dont think i'll wait very long before D. I've been dealing with this too long and feel like I've lost a lot of feelings for her. There's still some left that brings me pain, but i think I can D her and just move on with my life now.

Yes, it will still hurt and take awhile for me to recover from the loss of my M, but that's what I'm preparing for.

DM!

You're assuming there is no OM.

You can still write the Plan B letter.

You can still requests letters of NC to other men.

You can still provide criteria for her return.

You then go dark.

No IM, texts, or signs of you.

Do it!

Do it for a few months. Then move to D.

C'mon, man! Lets see some action!