As a OW/WW I have spent 3 yrs in C. I have learned so much about myself and others. I only wish I had learned it before I hurt myself and others.

I visit MB site and seen the same painful events happen over & over again. I feel compelled to give some insight from the OW or WW in which case I am both. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I the OW seem to be the outgoing, confident,mostly positive, caring person. I like to do things for people, and often found if fun and challenging to help evryone. It made me feel accepted & needed. I would also have friends. Guess what, all of that was selfish on my part.

You see a person that enters into an A is nothing more than selfish. Yes,all of us are selfish, but those of us who choose to enter into an A has the ultimate trait of selfishness!

Women that have A are perceived on the surface as caring, confident humans. Those traits are used for selfish reasons. They do those things in the name of caring because they want to get something out of it...Attention, Love, Soulmate, Emotional stability, Friends. We will go to great lengths to accomplish it. What we don't see or won't see is,none of that is achieved in an A or any relationship.

As a OW/WW I have been in that trap several times. (only one affair, but several relationships) I felt loved when I was helping a man though hard times and he in turn would help me. (Sometimes my needs were embelished) Of course, we both thought it was love not realizing our selfishness would eventually eat away our relationship, as it did several times. People in A only see the good in each other, because it is "new". Often we will be very interested in the "new" ideas of the other person.

We mistake that this new love will be different. "I've learned from my mistakes" I won't make them with this person. Well guess what?? When selfishness "love" has driven us to enter into an A, why do we think it will make for a good relationship anytime, especially when it formed from a dishonest start, which is what an A is. It will never work! All A are dishonest and trust has been broken. It would only be a matter of time, usually 2 yrs that the relationship would sour. Statistics prove that.

I thought, made myself believe, I wasn't a selfish person. My "caring" traits made me feel better, as I learned from C. Looking back, I had an outstanding acting career, I not only fooled others but also myself. In the process of my selfishness in my relationships I hurt people. Some moved on and some will have terrible scars.

In each new relationship, I for one increased my expectations for the one I "fell" for. They seem to have salary increases if you know what I mean. It was due to working eviroment or access I would be at that given time. I am able to know which men are in need or my "caring" trait. Did I say "caring"??This is not to say I don't care..I used it in the wrong way. I of course I would get something out of this man. Soulmate, Trust, Emotional help, Love.

How could I or any WS,OW,OM think in the long-run that any of that would come from a relationship with 2 people that are selfish enough to break marriage vows and trust. Oh, I forgot we are "caring". "Caring/Selfish" enough to care what they will get out of the relationship, a person who needs me and will appreciate me.

You see I have learned a lot about this person that is "caring/selfish". I would seek advise from men and women, they in turn had their egos stroke and a friendship would form. I would be "caring" at all cost even for the assumption I was in love. I do need to be loved, that is an inborn desire, but OW/WW use good traits "caring" for selfish reasons. We want to "care" for others because it makes us feel needed, appreciated, therefore we feel good about ourselves. Loved, we think.

Women generally have a knack to know when and how to emotionally need/use other people. We know how to make others, especially men feel needed, in turn to get what we want all in the name of love. SELFISH.

When it is all said and done the truly unselfish loving person is the BS that chooses to stick with their WS. That is LOVE. That is the unselfish human being we all would forever want for a spouse. If we could all be so lucky.

A word to all you men who emotionally need someone. Speaking as the OW/WW there are common give away clues that encourage women to seek out and "care" for a new man. These are a few I noticed, I'm sure there are more. 1) Drug/Alchol problems. 2)Working long hrs.(there's either no wife, or wife isn't important). 3)No pictures of wife in work area. 4)Very little, if any mention of wife to co-workers, only talk of children. 5) Converstion of wife/marriage is somewhat neg. 6) Health problems. 7) Relationship problems (work/home).

These are all clues to perceptive women.(most women are perceptive) You are men that seem needy to a needy women, and selfishly that need is mistaken for love. I found through my relationships different needs for different men, and I would use my needs to get to his needs.(usually whatever I found was important to him) Aren't women sweet? This is not to say men don't play a big part in the A. Those of us that chose to have an A or enter into a relationship can only find out later that it was selfishness not love that fueled the "caring" relationship.

I hope this will prevent an A or help all who think they are in love with another person. We fail to recongize that this "new" person is also selfish or they would not be involved. We may be caring but, obviously we aren't, or we would have cared and worked it out with spouses. We are needy, not caring. When entering into anA and think of marriage to that person, we are only appeasing our immediate need of being needed. What the hell makes us think day to day life would be anything, but hell, with 2 people who came together as a sounding board of "caring/selfish" therpy.

What good trait either of us have would vanish due to the selfish circumstances we came together Two of my men were great guys, but they had their faults contrary to what I wanted to believe. I learned some things that will make me better from all the relationships, but that doesn't make those relationships work. The selfish act of A destroys the relationship. I am not a Christian per say, but I have heard about the bible. If the bible is true or not, it makes sense why 2 adulterers would fall out of love, if they ever were in love. The relationship would be hell.

Is anyone awake?? I have put most to sleep I'm sure. Please do keep these thoughts in mind when the opportunity comes to become involved with OP. Put your energy in your marriage. Those of us that have ended a marriage should not even consider a new relationship for awhile. My thought is 2 yrs or more. If you are dating now, don't get involved with someone that has just ended a relationship, they too need to have time.

yours- sounds like you are working on yourself - good for you. This will make you a better person/partner in the future. I (BS) am getting to the point where my goal is to work on myself and make changes, and forget about obsessing about WS/OW. Thanks for the thoughts and good luck.

I wish I was reading this at home so I could respond like I want to. Uncle Sam might take some issue with me spending too much time here.

After you strip away all the excuses and vain attempts at blaming addictions, people or our childhood, it comes down to being selfish.

Great post. God Bless

A great post. Thank you for your insights. I do know my side of the story and it has been difficult to be honest about my selfishness. When the OW said no more the "we've hurt eachother enough" I kept wondering "who me?" "I didn't hurt you" my goal was to "make you happy" HA! what a bunch of BS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Thanks for your side it helps me to see her side.
H

that is a terrific post yourstruly! You are so right about the selfish part. It's amazing how I used to so judge people who had involved themselves with an A. I would say those exact same words. "how can anybody be that selfish"!
Well, I found out. My issue now that my A has been over for about two months is letting go of the fact that I, for whatever reason, believe that I was entitled for him to say I love you.
That is almost an obsession to me now. I have absolutely humiliated myself asking him for his love in the past. I don't know why I'm so hung up on the fact that that would give me closure.
Do you have any experience with that with your past A? I would love to here your opinion.

Lisa,

When we chose to not work on our marriage and go astray we are being selfish. We want something (at all cost)....respect, appreciation, acceptance, soulmate, whatever. We want that "feeling" someone cares and understands. What we are in love with is the "feeling" someone has done that. It becomes addictive, and like drugs/alcohol, we crave that "feeling" . Also ,like drugs/alcohol, we will persue OP and the affair at all cost, wanting to believe it is love.

The "feeling" of needing to be needed, appreciated, feels good to one that is missing that in ones life. So as time passes that "feeling" becomes addictive. We in trun call it love.

In my post "if I do the caring/needing acts to others then I feel good about myself." It must be love. It is an addictive "feeling" not real love. We all care for others, but those that become addicted want to call it love.

I am assuming OP didn't say he loved you, right???I'm only guessing, but you probably feel now he didn't love you, but you want him to validate that he did. It would make you feel more postive about the A. At least he loved you. Am I right? You both were addicted to the selfish "feeling" that was giving you the appreciation, acceptance etc.

My advice is take ALL of those acts of kindness, and put your energy into your H. I hope this helps Lisa.

Yourstruly1999

YoursT,
Thanks for your insights. They have helped me to "see" the OW and understand her and what motivated her.

H

Bumping this thread too.

I have read posts on other web boards and I recognize the bullets in the first post in this thread. Some OW track down a married man who might be susceptible to have an affair.

Yours Truly,
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the selfish part. But it is not always true that WW think they are being "loving".

First, I knew it was very unloving of me to have an affair, from the moment it started. I was convicted and knew it from the get-go. I felt really bad about it and tried to stop from the very beginning. I knew I wasn't doing anyone a favor.

On the other hand, I had not protected my heart, and did not take care of myself the way I should have. I also wasn't in touch with reality, which was that my marriage was really awful at the time. Had I not been lying to myself and convincing myself it was ok, I would have known to keep a distance, to guard my heart, and that I was vulnerable to temptation.

It is not enough to know something is wrong to not do it. You can know something is terribly wrong, in fact many people do, yet crimes still happen nonetheless. (The Enron people knew it was bad, etc). Anyone who underesitmates his own sinfulness is setting themselves up for failure...

I seriously underestimated. It was foolish and stupid of me.

My M was so bad that I was daydreaming of packing up the car and leaving. Yet I didn't know how to translate that into words I could say to H to have him hear me. They say that when most A's happen the WP is on the way out. I believe that. I was on the way out and had no idea.

And when the A came to pass, I knew it was very wrong, very selfish. In fact, since I had no ideas how to set healthy boundaries in my M, it felt to me that I had been so selfless to the point of consistently being stepped on. And I couldn't take it any more. But I didn't know how to address it, so I did the cowardly thing and just took care of myself.

The A really was not that "fun" for me. When you know something is totally wrong, and you're expecting to get exposed any time (I didn't have any fanciful thoughts, I was scared of God's wrath and knew there was no way it was going to be pretty) you live in terror. I lived in terror. I realize there are a lot of people who are not like me, and their experience in an A was nothing like mine. But the guilt and horror and judgment against myself and self hate was unbearable. That's why I eventually quit the thing. I could not convince myself wrong was not wrong. It tormented me. (Have you read crime and punishment? My torment was like that... nightmares, etc. Always on edge, almost paranoid.)

I also came to realize that the A was a form of suicide. I ruined everything that was worthwhile about my life. I was too cowardly to commit suicide, so I sabotaged everything else with and through the A. I don't know why I did it. I still don't know why. It still brings me great remorse. Almost horror.

---I was in a tremendous amount of despair. And like I said, I was too cowardly to either leave the M or commit suicide (I'm not promoting suicide here, it's just that self-sabotage is a form of suicide). I think I was trying to escape.

OMG, I wish yourstruly was still around here, I'd love for her to talk to my WW. What she says about "caring/selfish" describes my WW to a tee. WW was orginally attracted to me, among other reasons, because of the sadness she felt in me, after I had just divorced my first wife, also for adultery. She was very kind and nurturing. With this, in addition to the fact that she is tall, slender and very pretty (she, at age 50, still passes as someone in their late 30's), and that I was on the rebound, I was putty in her hands. She also had just come out of a divorce from her first husband, who also had committed adultery. So we had a common topic of conversation.

This same need to nurture kicked in with her current affair. While the OM is a classic 'bad boy' (he's a twice-convicted felon on parole, a former drug addict/ drug dealer) she has said she felt a similar sadness in him, as he has been trying to straighten out his life since gaining parole.

However, it has become very apparent to me that this nuturing is in fact fundamentally selfish. WW measures her own self-worth by the extent she is needed or wanted by others. Maybe this goes back to her neglected childhood, I don't know.



This describes my WW in spades. According to the Briggs-Myers Personality Type Indicator test, she is an ENFP, labelled as "The Inspirer" This is from one description of the ENFP type:

Their enthusiasm lends them the ability to inspire and motivate others, more so than we see in other types. They can talk their way in or out of anything. They love life, seeing it as a special gift, and strive to make the most out of it.

An ENFP who has "gone wrong" may be quite manipulative - and very good it. The gift of gab which they are blessed with makes it naturally easy for them to get what they want. Most ENFPs will not abuse their abilities, because that would not jive with their value systems.

ENFPs sometimes make serious errors in judgment. They have an amazing ability to intuitively perceive the truth about a person or situation, but when they apply judgment to their perception, they may jump to the wrong conclusions.

Unfortunately, with the infatuation and the fog that WW has entered into, she has gone bad, so to speak. She has become very skilled at lying and manipulating me, straight faced, into believing several times that her A was over, all the while still contacting OM behind my back.

As I said, it is sure a pity that yourstruly appears to no longer be posting on this board. Maybe I'll give a copy of the original post to WW, for what its worth.

toosadtosmile,

That is an interesting insight, thanks for sharing.

I wish my WW were more like you, though. My WW has told me that she really feels little guilt when she's with OM. The only guilt she has felt is when she sees the pain she causes me. But then, I think that pain is also feeding her need for nurturing. She has on several occasions held me and comforted me while I was suffering severe panic attacks. I think maybe she's an emotional vampire.

My WW also seems to suffer from what is called 'emotional compartmentalization', a defense mechanism often developed during childhood abuse (my WW was sexually abused by her older brother). In this, a person develops another 'side' to their personality (not the same as a 'split personality', but along the same lines), in which they can suppress some of their feelings, emotions, values, to cope with a situation). I think, in my WW's case, that before when her A became sexual, the clash with her superego caused her to compartmentalize again, resulting in any feelings of guilt, or of me in general, to be safely suppressed during the A. I have even recorded her while talking on the phone to OM (not an illegal wiretap! just an open mike) and she sounds like a totally different person.

On the other hand, her OM sounds more like you. He apparently tried to break off the A several months ago because of guilt he felt bedding a married woman. However, WW was afterwards able to convince him they could still be 'friends', so they are still in an EA.

My WW apparently entered into the A (she apparently seduced OM) not as much because of a poor marriage (I admit it had become boring and lacked passion), but more of various events that seemed to be triggering a mid-life crisis. I think she felt her life in general, and not just her marriage, was a waste and lacked meaning. The affair, and the infatuation that ensued from it, gave her a euphoria that helped numb whatever discomfort she was previously feeling.

Again, thanks for your insight and for sharing.

Excellent post to bump.

Also shows all of us BS's that some Waywards do come around. Some do actually realize the wrongness of their actions.

It takes a lot of hard work and courage for a WS to Recover themselves and their M. My hats off to those who take on that challenge.

WS's suffer in their own way too.

Yes, this is definitely a great thread to bump. I just wish we had more wayward husbands that are recovered or no longer foggy, to get advice from

"Why we have affairs"?

I had one because my wife had one.

I thought it would make me feel better.

I didn't try to find a marriage builder.

I.I.I.I.

In the end "I" wish I'd never done it.

I went about it the same way she did. Online. I got caught. "I" always do. I met her online and messed up her family and mine. I agreed to meet her husband. I thought he was going to kill me.

I think maybe that is why I had an affair.

I...