Scope, you are getting great advice from some of the best this site has to offer! Just as an FYI...Mr. Wondering and Princessmeggy are both lawyers, so heed their warnings about protecting yourself legally!!

Understanding how your spouse can go from being your partner, lover, best friend and the love of your life to a snarling, self-absorbed, cold, entitled JERK is one of the most mind-blowing things you'll ever be forced to wrap your brain around. I wrote a thread about it, and it is at the bottom of this post in my signature line, called Inside the Wayward Mind. I wrote it because I am a FWW and since coming to MB and "de-fogging," it breaks my heart over and over to see what the BS goes through during this time (and sometimes long after). I wanted to try (before I got too far away from being in that mind-set) and put it all down to illustrate the stupid things that ALL WAYWARDS seem to say...most of it being LIES and SMOKE BLOWING.

Concerning your Plan A...you are doing a great job. DO NOT believe the things coming out of her mouth that you KNOW are NOT TRUE! She has NOT been unhappy for years and blah blah blah. Stick to what you are doing, snoop on her and bust her as many times as necessary and expose to everyone who can lean on her to end the A.

What are the ages of your children?

Thank you all. It's difficult to keep my head screwed on straight through all of this.

WW says she will go see a lawyer this week, I gave her mine.. She appears to want a clean separation. I'm just concerned that if I let us do this separately, her lawyer may take me for more than she may have wanted to.

She is leaving for sure. Make no mistake about it. We had a nice conversation tonight, the first of the week. She is trying to show me that she is worried about me when we separate, in that I will get over this and will be ok.

Resonance, children are 2 and 4.

"nice conversation" = change of tactics

Same manipulation.

YOU will rue the day you make things "easy" for her to leave you, destroy your family and devastate your children's lives without a FIGHT.

Your children are depending on you, or maybe it's just hoping you'll at least put up your best effort to come to their rescue. If you are a Christian...your wife's eternal soul also hangs in the balance and you remain her husband today (i.e.-fighting to save her is part of your "love, honor and protect" vows too)

Your wife is a crack addict. NOTHING was majorly wrong with your marriage prior to your wife having "feelings" for this other man. Her "feelings" have overtaken her brain's ability to think logically. She is willing to throw away her life, her children's lives, her husband's life, her vows, her commitment to God and everything decent to follow fleeting "feelings". She's a CRACK addict right now and should be instituitionalized NOT appeased. What would you do if she really was on crack cocaine and not "just" having an affair??? You see there really isn't much difference....I'm sure you wouldn't be agreeing to her moving out so she could take an apartment downtown and smoke crack all day using and wasting your families money in the meantime. Would you let her take the kids there some of the time too???

Another question...

Why do you suppose it's a bad idea to negotiate with terrorists???


I completely understand why you are behaving this way. You love your wife and want to be a good boy so the world can go back to the way it was. We husbands are used to listening to our wives and doing/saying whatever necessary to keep the peace and restore tranquility in our lives. It won't work this time. Your wife is in abuser mode. She is abusing you right now. As a man that is difficult to perceive and understand while it's happening but you are currently a victim and ACTING like a victim. We want to pull you out of that mode and get you to THINK and ACT like the man you are deep inside. The man we know you can be and those that have come before you here have become.

It's simple....ACT...don't react.

Stop listening and negotiating with the terrorist in your home. Prepare yourself with your own attorney. Gather information on the enemy. Learn and implement Plan A, then, eventually, Plan B, if necessary. Protect those kids from her influence TODAY and forever, if the situation doesn't turn around. Be true to yourself and YOUR vows.

You can win this but either way...you've got to be true to yourself.

YOU MATTER.

Mr. Wondering

Scope, I don't post much so take others sage advice of others and know that mine is only commiseration. I know how you feel. Few spouses wake up one day and say " I think I'll separate from my spouse". She is shifting the responsibility for her affair to you. The worst thing you can do is accept it. I'm sure you contributed to the current state of your marriage...we all did. However, you didn't cause this wound she gave you. You need to understand that in order to survive it. Right now your wife feels she has an alternative to her life, and it's better than what she has with you. You need to prove her wrong.

Think about this. You have given your two weeks notice to a boss you feel has been totally to blame for your professional failures. Whatever your boss does in those last two weeks will justify (or not) your leaving your current job. The thing is, once in the new job, the new boss is twice as big of an a$$, and you start to remember the last two weeks of your old job. What are Scope's last two weeks going to look like (Plan A)? Also, rarely does anyone leave the comfort of their surroundings without a safety net. Could it be that your wife is separating because her safety net is the OM? I never leave a job without having another one lined up! TAKE AWAY THAT NET!!
Crying about the potential loss of your family isn't something to be ashamed of...I wish I'd done more of that before my wife's affair. Crying for yourself however is a waste of energy. Understand that you are not to blame for your wife's affair. Also understand that you are the only one who has the courage and power to end it. Put your energy and pride into ending the affair, and once ended, you can work on fixing your contribution to the marriage.

Hoping for the best. I'll be watching how it turns out for you.

Mr Z-

scope


No she isn't. The only person she is worried about is herself and her own mental garbage. Take a long look at what you are being advised by those who have walked in your shoes including me. Imagine that the voices of unwanted experience are whispering in your ear. Now who do you trust, the crack ho interested only in her next fix or those who have had to deal with their own personal crack ho and help them pull their heads out of their fundament and fix their addiction?

Larry

LISTEN TO US, SCOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We know of which we speak!

And about this:

I'll tell you what I told a good friend of mine back in January when he was on here telling all about how SERIOUS his wife was about leaving (and she HAD hired a L, filed for LSA, AND rented an apartment--he is from Canada, also)...and now is happily recovering with his wife (in fact, she "woke up" about 2-3 weeks after I told him this)...

YOU SURE ARE BUYING WHAT SHE IS SELLING!

And she ain't sellin' nothin' but a big bag 'a bullchit! Let me tell you a little secret-she feels like she is the coolest thing since sliced bread right now. She is holding all the cards. And now that you have been told this fact, you really have no excuse for believing her, Scope! Take comfort in the like-ness of many waywards before her...and about her "gonna hire a lawyer" well, WE SHALL SEE!

Expose, follow the plan...

I can not tell you how many times a WS has come to this board and typed "make no mistake, she is leaving". But then, she never does.

thing is, she truly believes that she is leaving. She really is planning on it. But then when it starts to come to all the nasty logistics of it - well, it just doesn't seem like so much fun anymore.

One of the things you will start to see, is that this whole sitaution will change from day to day.

Listen to the advice you are getting here. It is solid.

I would like to emphasize one thing - IF and that is a big IF -you do get around to hiring lawyers and filing - you WILL get your own lawyer. It is not your "fault" that she wants to dump her husband and wreck her childrens lives. So it will not be your "fault" if it costs more to get your own legal protection.

But you will need to protect yourself and your childrens future.

Oh, and another thing, when you broke down sobbing in front of her - thats ok. You don't want to do it all the time - but to let her occasionally see how much you are hurting is just fine. It is reality.

Try to keep things simple for yourself:
1. You do not move out of your house
2. You do not offer to let her have ANY of the house hold furnishings (honey, I am so sorry, but everything needs to stay. I truly feel that for the mental and emotional health of the children, and for me, we need to keep our family home in tact)
3. You do NOT go to a lawyer WITH her. (Honey, I am so sorry, but my desire is to restore our marriage, build a better M, and keep our family together. I can NOT sit in a lawyers office with you, discussing the destruction of our family)

You CAN do this. And you WILL be ok again.

Thanks once again.

WW and I talked again tonight, she about legal separation and I about rebuilding. I think I may have been getting through a little, as she was becoming very emotional (which has been rare since the alien clone of my wife showed up a couple of months ago....).

Still, she persisted to say things such as "why do you want to force me to stay with you, I don't want to spend the rest of my life with you, and you can't change the way I feel". Luckily, these things are bouncing off me a little better over the last couple of days.

She's met with some type of lawyer/mediation type of person re. a legal separation. She's meeting again tomorrow. She's practically begging me to go to mediation with her to get separation paperwork drafted mutually. She does not understand why I want to pay thousands instead of hundreds... I keep on explaining: Can't put a price tag on my marriage, it's not for sale. I don't think there has been much contact with OM between workplace splitting them up and the exposure at workplace.

She's told me that this is my last chance before having to spend the money. To be honest - the money doesn't bother me. She said that I need to decide tonight, as tomorrow "something is going to happen". Not really sure what that means, but told her I could not participate in destroying the family. I also told her "that something else may happen tomorrow" - it was kneejerk reaction, and afterwards I thought I'd send flowers to the office for her. Thoughts? Think that would just tick her off?

I think you did well.

About the flowers - is that something you would have done before? If not, it might irritate her - as in "You never did this before, why now!"

But if you have sent flowers before, I think it would be a nice gesture.
Just a simple card that says "thinking of you". Stay away from mushy declarations of un-dying love. She doesn't want to hear that right now.

Well, I'm about ready to throw in the towel. I want this to work more than anything, however the exposure and taking my no-talk stance on separation has not worked out.

Letter from her lawyer is in the mail and should arrive any day now. She broke this to me tonight.

I've consulted with a few lawyers now, all who have different advice. I chose one and retained him today when I found this out. I really don't think that there is anything left to hold onto here.

At this point, we will have to separate. She won't hear any other options. For us, this means we will have to sell the home as neither of us can afford to stay in it alone. She's also expressed concerns that if the house takes too long to sell we will have to work out "arrangements" as when we are both around the home with this kids, she feels it's affecting them. Her version of these arrangements involves me staying in the home with the kids for a week while she stays with family/friends - and then switch. I told her this was not an option for me.

When I receive the letter from her lawyer, I think I may have to cave and go to mediation route or worse - do up the agreement ourselves. She's prepared to spend the money to get out, and I'd rather neither of us see that burden.

I don't think there has been much contact with OM from what I can tell, although she mentioned they still email at work from time to time to see how each other is doing. In the end, it doesn't matter. She's leaving regardless...

Sorry for being so weak - I just don't know what else to do.

Scope,

Reread your thread. Do not give in to her bullying tactics. Definitely DO NOT do that week on week off thing. It's a disaster waiting to happen. When you are week off, she will kick you out and you will have to fight tooth and nail to see your kids.

Stay in that house. When her letter comes from her lawyer, do not talk to her about it. Take it to your lawyer and keep mum. Your lawyer is there to work for YOU, so you tell him what you want and let him do the work. If your wife asks you about it, tell her to consult her attorney. You will not discuss divorce. Tell her she is welcome to leave if she feels the stress is too much for the children, but you aren't going anywhere and the best thing for the children is to have an intact family. The next best thing is that they are not removed from the home that they know.

If she asks anymore, tell her to consult with her lawyer.

ACT strong, even if you don't feel it. Start doing things with the kids; invite her along; if she refuses, then go without her. Do not stop the family from living it's life because your wife is in lalaland.

First, I want to clear this up. Mr. Wondering IS an attorney. I am NOT. I'm a paralegal with 15+ years experience. K?

Now:


A letter from her lawyer is a whole different animal compared to you being served with legal papers. When the letter comes, sit on it for a few days (unless there's a definite deadline stated), then take it to your attorney and tell HIM to sit on it before responding.


Uh, why are you allowing her to call all the shots about YOUR life? When she tries to do this, just say you'll take it under consideration and get back to her. Then follow the advice of your attorney. NO WAY do you let her dictate how this goes. As for the house? Would you rather lose your house or your marriage. Stand tall and don't back down. You're not going anywhere!


Why??? You don't HAVE to do anything. Do you WANT to save your marriage? Then quit listening to her!!


So, let her go. Once she walks though cut off all financial support. You shouldn't be doing anything to support her waywardness anyway.


If you would LISTEN and DO what we've been telling you to do you might surprise yourself and find yourself in a position of strength.

I forgot, have you exposed her affair? Just because SHE says there's no contact doesn't mean it's so. I'd bet money it's still going strong. So are you going to sit still and let her destroy you? Or are you going to man up and FIGHT for your family?

Scope,

When my WS left and started pushing D, I was scared crapless. It tore me apart. Then I talked to a friend who is a paralegal, and found a lawyer and she also gave me binder. It had this to say about mediation....

"Mediation is for a couple who is agreement on marital assets and child custody. It is a cheaper and a great way to go. It is not a good way to go when one partner gets their way more than the other..."

This is why when I read this I let WS know LOUD AND CLEAR that I will NEVER do mediation. I knew he would walk all over me and I would get nothing.

She CANNOT force you to do mediation. She can fight you, belittle you, rage at you to go this route and she will. Why?? Because it is the quickest and easiest way to be rid of you and continue in her fantasy.

You can choose not to do this. I implore you not to do this......Just stand your ground.

not2fun

ps...did you send the flowers???? and I would have done it anyway, even though you would have iratated her and she probably would have said "too little too late....".....and I would have done it to show her I love her and am wanting to change......go with your gut on that stuff and screw her reaction to it....

me BS-METER is going off.....


contact is still there and hot and heavy as ever....DO NOT LISTEN TO HER......BTDT

not2fun

This is what has my head scratching. Even though she wants the separation, if we went to mediation I would likely walk over her a little and end up with a better arrangement than if she went through a lawyer and eventually a court order to sell the house.....

Anyhow, I firmed up again with her this morning my stance over the last week. I won't participate in the destruction of our family. I am here to focus on the marriage, and ensure that the children's life is kept in tact. Won't discuss separation.

Whew! You had me worried. Good job, Scope. You have found your new mantra.

Me again. Could use a little more advice on a couple of things. But first, a quick status update.

Things are very much the same. WW is not open to working things out and focused on separating. Expecting a letter in the mail in the coming days. I am finding it difficult to implement my version of Plan A, which consists solely of me focusing on meeting the needs I think weren't there, and trying to eliminate any Love Busters. This is very difficult as WW will not even give me 5 minutes a day to talk. It's like we just pass each other in the halls...conversing when we half to re. kids and plans etc...

I believe that she is doing this because she feels that I only want to discuss the marriage, and not separation. Because we only get a few minutes to talk a day I have a hard time relaying my intentions about meeting needs and eliminating annoying behaviours. What do you guys think about me putting some of these thoughts into a letter?

Also, WW has really sold her unhappiness in the M and her lack of love for me well with people close to her. Although I've exposed, it has not really helped me much. Her family very much wishes to stay out of it, and does not wish to confront her or make anything confrontational. She has a close friend who I know she has confided in, and I have an ok relationship with this friend as well. I know that WW would be upset if I tried to talk to this person re. what's going on, but I don't think I have much else to loose. I can't help feeling like I don't have many people on board with my thoughts/version of what is taking place that are within her direct circle of influence. Thoughts on approaching this person to talk?

Thanks everyone.

Bump for the above post.

Also - I received papers today from WW lawyer. They state that I have 14 days to respond before they proceed to take the separation through the courts. The letter goes on to say that:

"WW is interested in Collaborative Law, and has expressed a strong desire that this matter not proceed to court and we seek an amicable resolution through negotiation. While she would like to avoid court, she is adamant that the issues get resolved. Therefore, should we not hear from you or your representative within 14 days I will seek instructions to bring a court application".

What am I doing now? I've secured a lawyer that practices Collaborative Law and litigation in case....

I can't believe this is actually happening. It's way too fast...

First of all, I want to apologize to Princessmeggy! And Ohhhh, my hubby's gonna have a field day with that one, because after he saw what I wrote, he was like "Isn't PM a paralegal or something?" and I ASSURED him that you were INDEED a L. I saw a thread started once with "Need some legal advice-Mr. W, Princessmeggy?" and so I was going from that. Good grief, I hope Want2Stay doesn't read this or I'll nevah hear the end of it! /TJ

As for you, Mr. Scope, please take a deep breath and slow down. Your wife is in the throws of the "I'm too cool for you" phase and you are walking the fine line of Plan A without appearing needy or clingy. Very tough spot!

Make sure your L is ready for a fight. Tell him you wish to drag things out for as long as humanly possible and even though Canada is pretty much 50/50, no-fault, I have to believe adultery has got to be weighed in there somewhere.

As for everything else, you have been given almost everything you need already...go back and re-read your thread.

*Bull-dog attorney
*Do not believe a single word she says
*Plan A (NOT Plan needy & whiny, and NO heavy talks)
*Do not believe a single word she says
*Protect your children and their home/security (DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME AND DO NOT LET HER MOVE OUT WITH THE KIDS)
*Do NOT believe a single word she says
*SPY SPY SPY SPY SPY!!!! (Knowledge is power)
*Do not believe a single words she says
*Keep nudging her to find a new job--she was willing a couple weeks ago
*Do not believe a single word she says
*Start making HIM squirm...expose on HIS side (LTGF, parents, etc)
*If she does move out, do not help her in any way.
*Do not believe a single word she says
*Secure your finances...


Hmmmmm...let see, what am I missing, OH! I know...

DO NOT BELIEVE A SINGLE WORD SHE SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks - so you are saying no collaborative law? This is where the parties agree to not bring the matter to court. You feel that I should be going to court? Could that not open the door for her to fight for custody if she wanted to? I'd never win a custody battle against her in Canada.....

I understand the stall tactics and my version of plan A, however I'm not sure how going to court will benefit anybody here. She is not going to back down from this...