Hummingbird,<P>You words sound very familiar to my wife's. I asked her if she thinks she can ever fall in love with me again. "God can work miracles" she said. That she might never feel anything for me again is my greatest fear. That just seems like a hopeless situation.<P>Is your husband actively working on improving the marriage?

I told my husband I didn't love him the same, I don't feel that I'm "in love" with him anymore but I still love him. I did love him at one time very much but over the years with all our problems it's so different. And I do feel it was different with the OM and everyone tells me it was fantansy, it's hard. I think my feelings for him were true but the life with him wouldn't be all "roses" and I keep telling myself that.<P>My husband is a conflict avoider, he's selfish, has angry outbursts, I feel doesn't treat me with respect, doesn't want to talk about things, he thinks he says he's sorry and everything is OK. He says he loves me and feels the same as he always has, if not loves me more but realizes he has to change his behavior. He does not know about the affair, I have been told by many people here and been beaten up for this, that I should tell him and my marriage is a sham if I don't. I think it'll make things worse right now in my marriage, if I tell him. <P>I'm in counseling and my husband has agreed to go as well. I'm hoping if my husband trys and fills those needs the OM was filling, the love will come back. Have you considered counseling? Maybe then she'll see she needs to break off contact with the OM.

My fog was lifted by guilt and shame. I have never felt like that before, and I am still suffering from the effects. <P>I loved my H and I watched him suffer as if he had a cancer - and he did, in a way, he had a Sheryl-cancer. I did that.<P>I guess it could also be attributed to God. I knew I was a sinner, and I had fallen far. <BR>My H did not threaten to kill me, and the OW only contacted me after it was over, so neither was a reason to end it. I just KNEW it was wrong.<P>This has been, bar none, the hardest thing I have ever gone through. I just wish everyone could understand that not all betrayers (and certainly none that have posted here) are horrible people. All of us were hurting people who made a very poor choice. And all of us are paying for it! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

hummingbird,<P>We are in counseling and the OM relationship has come up, but the "it needs to end" issue has not yet (just 3 sessions so far). I think we are headed that way though, and frankly it needs to be discussed there with an objective third party, because this is <B>the</B> explosive issue.<P>Boy, the pain so many people are experiencing is just <B>SO</B> sad . I am really stunned by the scope of it all.

I woke up when I suddenly realized the pain I was causing the man whose love for me was so intense that he was willing to endure what i was doing to him. This was the man I loved with all my heart on on our wedding day, the man who cared for me so deeply on that day that all I wanted to do was be part of him forever. I saw him on his knees in pain and everything I was doing to him rolled through my mind with so much horror that I wanted to die. How could I do this to so special a man. How could I do this to the one I loved with all my heart-yes my love came pouring back into my heart all at once (I think it was there all along but shrouded by the guilt and emotional turmoil I was going through).

Did any of you leave and not have any contact with your S or family? How did the fog lift then? I have had very little contact with H since he moved in with OW. I have started sending him notes and card ever so often. How would he even know I was going through anything, or for him to have any guilt feelings? I am having problem asking what I want to ask. I just feel like since he has cut off all contact with me that he haas gone to world that we don't exsist. How will he find his way back?<P>------------------<BR>di<P><p>[This message has been edited by SDS (edited October 16, 1999).]

2sad4words,<BR> My H hasn't had contact, I'm pretty sure anyway, for 7 weeks. He admits that he thinks about it every day but says he hasn't acted on the urge because he thinks for a minute he would feel great, the OW would feel great, but then all the pain would set in on him, her, and me. I've only been added to this list of VIPs in the last 2-3 weeks. We are both helping to counsel some very close friends trying to end an affair and though this has been very difficult for me it has really opened my H's eyes to have greater understanding of the betrayed's pain as his best male friend is the betrayed this time. From good personal friends that went through it, it seems like time and gaining more empathy for the adverse effects of the situation when they can is most helpful.<BR>Good Luck!<BR>Jenn<P>------------------<BR>

I've been trying to figure out why I did snap back from fantasy land. It took awhile to even remember. People who are involved in affairs are selfish obviously and don't think of anyone but themselves. Unfortunately, it almost took losing my husband to wake up. He had it with my behavior and withdrew from me and I woke up. Simple as that. If I didn't love him I would have probably moved out then but it woke me up. Also the feelings of guilt and what I was doing was WRONG made the whole experience so bad I couldn't continue. I had some physical problems because of it like ulcers and this superceded any type of fantasy. My conscience weighed WAY to heavily.

It is encouraging to hear that some people do finally wake up. It is discouraging that sometimes it takes initiation of Plan B to trigger it. This is a high-risk action. <P>In fact, I think it is probably unwise to go to Plan B in order to <B>try</B> to trigger a wake-up call. Personally, I believe Plan B should only be done for one's own sake (if the pain of Plan A becomes unbearable), not with the intention of manipulating an outcome. Anyone disagree?

I agree with you completely, 2Sad.<P>I have heard and am learning from the site that to try manipulation as a means of getting what is desired ( such as reconciliation) is not a wise choice. I can say it was in my H's heart at the time, because he was losing love for me as he has said. And he still hasn't regained it. I try to put myself in my husband's place and think if I were him I could probably fall out of love pretty quickly and get fed up in a short amount of time. My behavior didn't really change until the last 4 months of the affair, the first 8 were only emotional and since my H worked so much, he never even noticed. He became ambivalent quickly, but this was what he FELT not trying to snap me out of my behavior.<p>[This message has been edited by Connor (edited October 16, 1999).]

I broke it off because I was disgusted with myself. My H wasn't doing anything differently when I ended it. Actually, our problems were worse than ever and there was no end in sight. Somehow, deep down, I knew I couldn't decide how to save my marriage, or end it if that is what it came to, with this other person hanging around. I honestly didn't believe my H loved me at the time, so I ended it NOT because I knew it was hurting my husband. I didn't think he cared. However, I did know it was hurting me and keeping me from facing the problems in my marriage in in my life. There is another recent post that Cossie wrote about the reason why men have affairs. Even though I'm a woman, both the reasons he stated (need for attention and fear of aging, career loss/change) contributed to my choice to cheat.

ALL of our behavior when we are trying to win back our spouses is manipulative. Almost any interactive behavior is also manipulative, if you think about it.<P>Why do we go to Plan A? To show our spouses we are eliminating the love busters they have identified, and to show that the marriage is a safe place for them to be. Why do we need to do this? To try to make them see that they should quit the other relationship and re-commit to ours. Is this not manipulative? <P>I think that there are times when Plan B is necessary as another tool in the process of surviving an affair. It is always manipulative, but it seems more acceptable when we do it because it hurts to much NOT to do it.<P>I have come to this conclusion with the help of some of the "old-timers" here and Dr. Harley's recent article on Plans A and B, which can be found at: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html</A> <P>My husband seems to have settled comfortably into having his needs met by two women - me and the slug. The progress we made in the summer time was real progress, but the addiction was stronger, and we have made little or no progress since, even may have moved slightly backward. We have a date to go to a wedding together on October 30, and depending upon how that and the two weeks following go, I may be forced into Plan B, even though my love for him is just as strong as ever (if not stronger) and my life is not painful at all (well, unless you count the fire in the kitchen ... and that was more frightening than painful ). My self-esteem is better than ever - I am fighting for myself in several job situations - I feel strong and healthy most of the time. I love being with him - but I do have a life without him. I am not in any danger of his account in my love bank being emptied or overdrawn any time real soon.<P>In other words, according to the "for onesself" theory, I could very possibly continue Plan A indefinitely. But right now, I am seeing that it has likely done all the good it can do. More Plan A probably will not help. So, I need to consider and "plan" for Plan B, or a modified version of it, at least. Is it because I can't take doing Plan A anymore? No. Is it because I'm losing my love for my husband? No. It is because my husband needs to know the real consequences of his decision to continue his relationship with the slug. Is this manipulative? YES! Is it wrong? NO!<P>Sometimes "you just gotta do what you gotta do."<P>(I can hear the cheers from the peanut gallery. Don't hold your breath - I have decided this intellectually...I still have to actually DO it... )<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>No, I'm not a Marriage Counselor,<BR>But I did sleep at a <BR>Holiday Inn Express last night...<BR>

terri,<P>how do you do this? Really? I am sitting here reading your post, thinking how my H never ever had a plan-anything and left me "right now" when my affair was discovered. I did end it, and it was thankfully, very short with one time of intercourse. Even since his return home he has huge trouble doing the no LB thing, instead we have daily, or should I say hourly, reminders of my affair. I, on the other hand, have done everything I could do to show I mean to save my marriage. Not to say I haven't LB'd too. We really struggle.<P>Don't get me wrong, I've been on the other side, too. I was betrayed by him in the past. I had to work at it then too because he couldn't. So now that I'm on the other side and have to work just as hard I find it frustrating. <P>How do you do it??<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

When I learned of my husband's affair, I called him home from work (made up a fake emergency) and confronted him. I told him I wanted him out of my life and his clothes were in the floor ready for him. He confessed everything after about 15 minutes. He said he had wanted to get out of it, but did not want to hurt OW's feelings, because they were friends. I said, "What about my feelings?" He said that during the affair he had compartmentalized his life. When he was with her he was able to pretend he wasn't married. When he was with me, she did not exist. It was weird. Anyway, the very next day, he called her right in front of me and broke it off. He told her he was going to try to save his marriage and that I was the most important thing in his life. He told her the affair was wrong and that it never should have happened. He has had no contact since and says he doesn't miss her (sexually). He has said that he misses her friendship. He says he could kick himself for letting it go that far, because she could have been a very good friend. He left her because of my feelings.