Before I start, let me just say how extremely difficult it was for me to even think about posting to this website. In fact, I've found myself very angry at some of the suggestions on this site, but before I go further, I really should provide you with the background to this story...

First of all, I am a 30 year old female who is in the Army National Guard. I am currently deployed to Kuwait and have been since March. I have been married almost 5 years (August) and we have had numerous problems throughout our marriage. Here are a few:

1. My spouse has been unable to hold a job for longer than a few months the entire time we have been married.

2. My husband has lied to me about numerous things, some big things, and is a chronic liar and has been since early in our marriage.

3. My spouse has been very responsible with finances, up to and including lying about what he is spending money on, not being responsible with the finances when I have tried to include him in that process.

4. My spouse has not been dependable when it comes to childcare and housework. He does the minimum unless he is pushed and an argument ensues.

5. My husband has seen a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with depression and was also diagnosed with ADHD as a child.

All of these things, combined, have put a major strain on our marriage for quite a long time. We have fought endlessly about everything and I have become increasingly impatient through the years with his constant expression of "his" feelings and the fact that they seem to rule everything in our lives.

When I found out that I was deploying, my spouse got really upset and, of course, we fought constantly about that. He even accused me of planning to cheat while in Kuwait. However, I have never lied to my spouse, been dishonest, witheld information or given him any reason to think something like that would occur.

Unfortunately, after I left, my spouse decided to cheat on me. He became heavily involved in online dating websites, presented himself as a single father providing financially for his children. All the while I had been over here paying all the bills and providing all the money they needed while my husband stayed home with the kids.

He complained to me constantly about how easy I have it here and I can just "party it up" while he is "stuck" there with the kids. I tried constantly to convince him that it was not like that, but he was unrelenting. When I went home in May for 6 days, I found out that he was seeing a girl he met online. He additionally racked up $800 in over the limit fees on one of my credit cards and racked maxed out another one of my cards taking her out.

Naturally, I was furious. My heart was broken and one can not imagine the pain of finding this out on Mother's Day. Not only that, but my spouse had the audacity to blame it on me, continue to accuse me of various things and tear me down to nothing. After awhile, we decided to try to work things out. He seemed very sincere, completely took all of the blame and showed signs of change. I truly believed him or at least, I thought I did.

However, as is expected, I still didn't trust him, so I began checking up on him again, but didn't find a whole lot online. Right before the beginning of July, I got a call from my brother who had something important to discuss with me. He told me that my husband had given him his old phone and that there were a TON of text messages to girls on there, using words like "love" alluding to sex, and pictures of one girl's bare chest. I couldn't believe it. It had never stopped. He had completely lied to me!

Long story short (well, as short as I can make it) I ended up kicking him out and my parents came and picked up the kids and got all my stuff. This was in part because my parents advised me that they noticed that Aric seemed to be letting lots of things go with the kids (they weren't showering, the house was unsanitarily filthy, and they had found my 1 year old son out in the front yard by himself and my husband unaware that he had gotten out.) They feared for my children's safety. So my husband packed it up and went to his sister's house in another state.

I found out later, from several neighbors that they had found my 1 year old and 4 year old outside by themselves and one of those times they found them down by a creek bed! When they brought them back, no one was at the house and I found out that my husband had left them there by themselves so he could to to the "store." I was shocked and horrified to find out that all of this has happened. My husband was never THIS bad before I left.

Since then, he has expressed a desperate desire to work things out and clean up his act. I know that my husband's mental health is an issue in this case and I know he wants to get help.

I am having difficulty dealing with this and need some advice on how to handle things. When reading articles on this site, I get really angry because it seems like all of the work falls on the BS to try to convince the other spouse why they should want to be with them rather than run around cheating. I'm also extremely upset that my spouse was so involved in his online relationships and sleeping with a girl that he neglected my children. I feel like I can't even CONSIDER starting my end of this process until he changes SO much.

He is wanting a definitive answer from me. He wants to know whether I am going to be taking him back or not. I just don't know. I feel like I need to see alot of things change and I need proof of the change before I can consider it. I told him, for sure that he couldn't come back before I get back from Kuwait next March.

I get so many different kinds of advice, I don't even know what to do anymore. Help!

Lovebetrayed,

Is he saying he wants a decision from you about whether you will give him another chance, before he takes action to clean himself up? If that is the case, then I don't think he is really interested in changing. If he were, he would be getting help now because he needs it and for no other reason. He does not have the right to place conditions on his rehabilitation.

Also, recovery is a very long difficult process. One requirement for recovery that I feel is very important is happy memories to give you hope and help you through the grief. They give you something to draw from and work towards since you know the two of you can be happy together. It doesn't sound like there have been a whole lot of those times. From your description, it sounds like this man has been a total trainwreck, and really more like a 4th child rather than a partner.

I think you need a serious gut check to decide whether you want this man back in your life. Once you decide that, then we can go from there.

A couple of questions:
1) Have you taken measures to protect yourself financially? If you are still giving him any money, put him on a very tight budget with no access to your credit cards.

2) Get statements from the neighbors who found your kids at the creek bed and out in the front yard. Document everything. You may need it later as it doesn't sound like this man has any business having joint custody of your children.

3) Can you afford to call the Harleys for counseling?

LB - I'm very sorry you're in this situation. I can only imagine your level of frustration, fears and anger, being so far away from home with such turmoil.

Is your H demonstrating signs of repentance? Does he understand how he is behaving is wrong and that his actions place your children in danger?

Consider your own stipulations for a possible reconciliation. Suggestions to include:

1. H's no-contact with affair partner.
2. Marriage counseling.
3. Parenting classes for H.
4. Getting (and keeping) a job.
5. Some sort of personal finances/accounting class.

Obviously, your H accused you of getting to party it up because his own disposition was toward cheating.

Divorce is an option, and it would be understandable in your circumstances. I feel from your post that you are exploring all your options to find what is best for you and your children. I personally think considering all ways to recover your marriage at this point is the way to go - that is, if your H cooperates. Whatever you decide, go slowly...there is time....

I'm so glad your children are safe!

lovebetrayed, I'm sorry for your situation. It sounds like Plan A is what sticks in your craw. You don't have to do plan A. You could go straight to plan B or D. The articles are written for those who want to recovery and rebuild their marriages. Nowhere does Dr. Harley state that every marriage should be recovered.

You know that your children are now safe, so all you really have to consider at this point is whether or not you still want to be married to your husband. Once that decision is made, you will be able to decide a course of action.

It probably doesn't mean much in light of your situation, but I appreciate your service to our county.

In a nutshell, I guess he is asking for a commitment from me. He says he doesn't want to put the effort into repairing our marriage if I don't intend on it working out. He says he still plans on getting the help he needs and doing right by his children in all aspects, but if I don't want to be married to him anymore, then he will put all of his efforts into that.

Part of me wants him to put all of his efforts into those things FIRST before there is even talk about reconciliation. I do not want to get my hopes up about him changing and us working out, just to find out that he's not going to change at all.

There are some serious trust issues, due to the constant lying and covering up. He has lied so much that even he doesn't even remember what he has or hasn't said. We have had some good times, true enough. It just always seems like the bad times overshadow them.

I really want him to get help and I really want him to get better because I DO want him to be there and I DO want to save my family but I've become such a cynic because I've experienced disappointment after disappointment when he has failed in his promises to change in the past.

I will say that I've never kicked him out before. In answer to your questions:

1) Have you taken measures to protect yourself financially? If you are still giving him any money, put him on a very tight budget with no access to your credit cards.

He does not receive any financial support from me anymore. I already told him I fully expect him to send money to my parents to help support our children in addition to what I provide. He knows I expect him to meet that requirement. He doesn't have access to any of my money.

2) Get statements from the neighbors who found your kids at the creek bed and out in the front yard. Document everything. You may need it later as it doesn't sound like this man has any business having joint custody of your children.

He has willingly agreed to grant my parents guardianship of our children because he says he knows he is in no position to care for them. I will be returning home in about a week for R&R and will be seeing my children and will be going with my parents to get the guardianship established until my deployment is over.

3) Can you afford to call the Harleys for counseling?

At this point, my main financial focus is getting this debt paid off which I have acquired, some from joint expenses, and some because of his spending habits.


I've never locked him out like this. He can only have supervised visits with the children, he can't see me (I've even debated as to whether I should even converse with him at this point.) He had no money, no possessions, other than his clothes and has been left to figure this out for himself.

I think at this point, he is feeling the pain and is particularly remorseful because he is without us and all the things I have provided. I still believe, because of that, he is remorseful for the wrong reasons, but hopefully that will change. I don't know...

What bothers me about plan A is that it seems like the point of it is that the BS is supposed to act like they were the one that did something wrong and then spend their time chasing around the person that did the wrong thing. I know I feel like in my case, if I were to do that, I'd be afraid that he'd see that he could get away with whatever he wanted and I'd still take him back no matter what and treat him great, so what would be the point of him changing?

You sound as though you have your head on straight! I agree with your approach.


The bottom line is your husband has most likely cheated a lot. When you see one roach, there are a lot more hiding behind the walls.

I would bet the house that if you ever decided to give him another chance (AFTER he got his [censored] together) that he would do this to you again. IMHO, the manner in which he conducted himself says a lot about his character....or lack thereof.

My suggestions would be:

Make him demonstrate real and prolonged changes BEFORE he returns home.

Notify every affair partners spouse of what has happened and get a no-contact letter off to the OP.

Contact the Harley's to do marital coaching AFTER he has come clean and shown a desire to work this out.

BEFORE anything else though, I would suggest you have him submit to a polygraph exam. He will fail. You should know who and what you are dealing with before making any decisions to stay/go.

The ONLY reason I am even suggesting your CONSIDERING staying with this "man" is your children. Most likely all of you would be better off without him....only you truly can make that call though.

Best of luck and thank you for your service.

Most of what I found was online related, in that he was going online and putting himself out there for girls to chat with online. He claims he only met three of them. I confronted all the ones I could find and they all acted shocked. They told me that he said that we were in the process of divorce and when I told them that we weren't, they said they didn't want to have anything to do with him. I don't know if there is anybody else I don't know about, but I DO know for a fact that since he is at his sister's and she is FURIOUS at him for doing this, she keeps a pretty tight rein and he really couldn't do anything if he wanted to. His cell phone has been shut off and he doesn't have internet access.

The question will be, when there is no one looking over his shoulder, what will he do? I'm pretty good at finding things and noticing changes, so I know that this all occurred after I left. There's no way he could have gotten away with an affair prior to that. I would have found out. He said that was the only reason he did it: because he was lonely and I wasn't there.

Anyways, the lie detector test is an interesting idea. One that I will think about.

Oh, ok, so that makes it not so bad. *sarcasm*

Hon, this man has never grown up. His parents likely never held him to any standards, he never had to step up and be responsible and selfless, so it's highly unlikely he will ever start now. I'd say that, if he showed any true emotion for his kids, it might be worth working with him, but leaving a baby alone in a house? I see no emotion whatsoever.

I'm not supposed to say this at MB, but I see nothing redeeming about him. Maybe he has charm, and that's what kept you with him. But for what?

Legally separate, or divorce. Tell him that you are willing to consider getting back together...IF he completes a long list of life-changing steps like counseling that you can see proof of. You can always get back together a few years down the line, but for now you and your kids are better off with him as a divorced father. The only way he will ever grow up is if he has to fight for you.

btw, thank you for serving.

lovebetrayed:

It sounds like WH has more psychological or personality disorders than just depression. He would need to seek help and resolve these for your M to have any reasonable chance of success, regardless of any affair.

We all know that Plan A sounds counter-intuitive, almost like an admission that we BS were to blame. In part, that makes carrying out a Plan A so difficult. But, the point is that it works. In most typical A's (yours may be different due to H's personality problems), the WS has entered an A due to unmet emotional needs. The WS has now found those needs met by someone else. They, at first, really have no interest in returning to the marriage, now that they've found happiness somewhere else. The point of Plan A is to show WS that things can change and they can find those emotional needs met back in the M, along with the other needs that you had already been meeting. We all know that it is very hard to be kind and loving to WS, when you feel so much anger and resentment towards them, and can't comprehend why they're so oblivious to the fact they are ripping out and stomping on your heart. But, if you show any of that attitude to WS, you'll only drive them further to WS.

The goal is to want to make WS return to you. That is the carrot of Plan A. The stick is weilded by exposure. If you expose the A to friends, relatives, etc., that removes the secrecy from the A, which is what A's thrive upon. It also instills a measure of shame, hopefully making WS more reluctant to continue in the A. But, YMMV.

Making all this the more difficult is your deployment oversees. This practically makes a Plan A very difficult. My sitch is similar - I had to move out of state to take a new job, right as WW was, unknowing to me, cranking up an EA. This A turned into a PA 3 weeks after I moved. I was only able to return home every other weekend, but spent that whole time trying to fulfill her unmet needs (I am more of an introvert, and don't express affection or admiration very readily, which I've since learned to make a conscious effort to do). But, so far the Plan has had progress, the PA ended in April, and have had several attmepts at NC, that have been lasting for longer periods, broken only by phone calls (at least, as far as I know).

Best of luck to you, and sorry you find yourself here.

Just curious, I noticed in your sig line:


I take it this is a second marriage? For both of you?

This is my second marriage. He did not marry the mother of his daughter. They just lived together for a few years. That's why I'm not so eager to end it. I know what the statistics are for subsequent marriages...

He (WS) is anxious to work this out. He is really trying hard right now and really committed. What I am suspcious of and don't trust at this point is his sincerity or ability to follow through. I think maybe he means it each time, but I think I may have made it to easy for him to slip back into his old habits because I haven't truly held him accountable.

About the plan A thing, to me, since my spouse so desperately wants to work things out with me, it would seem like he should be the one doing the steps outlined in plan A, but I don't know maybe plan a/plan b don't really apply to us because my spouse doesn't have contact with the other women and long before I knew about this site, I revealed his cheating to everybody I knew, including his family and mine. He was really pissed at first. But he got over it and realized that he deserved it (so he says.)

lovebetrayed.

The reason the odds are bad for subsequent marriage is that people don't often learn much from their first and often take a ton of baggage from previous marriages into the next one.

If you learned more about marriages and relationships the odds of having a good marriage go way up. Staying in a bad marriage doesn't really change much.

I am very promarriage, and I am very pro-MB. But I look at your post and wonder "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?"

First, Plan A is for breaking up an affair. Your H isn't having an affair now, and he has been having ONS. Plan A isn't bad, but given other factors my recommendation is to read plan A, understand what you have done and contributed to this marriage, and work on those things like: failing to meet needs, learning about needs, love busters, etc.

HOWEVER, all of that said, there is no way on God's Green Earth, that this man gets another chance unless and until he changes. If it is too much work to do, before he knows if you are committed, then I suspect it is too much for work for him to do, period. He needs to change his perspective on marriage and so do you.

You are lucky your children were not hurt. You are luck Child Protective Service wasn't called and the both of you didn't lose your children. Your profession does require travel to exotic places and it will in the future. If you are going to be married, your H has to pick up the slack at home. However, your resentment toward him not working would be poorly founded if your life is in the military. The problem was/is that he did not take care of the home front.

My recommendation to you is to make a list of what you expect of an H. What you expect of your marriage. What you expect of a father/parent. What you will need to see from him.

And if I were running your life, I would tell him, until and unless he addresses all of these issues, he is out.

He is not going to take care of the children even financially, because as you point out he cannot/will not hold a job. He needs to get a job and stick with it. He needs to pay your parents for taking care of the children he failed to take care of. He needs to be OFF your credit cards and out of your life financially until and unless, he demonstrates an ability to work, spend appropriately, save money, and support his children.

Finally, do you really understand how dumb (pardon, I could not find a more polite way to say this) you sound when you say

You don't have to trust his follow through, you have to see it. You don't have to trust his sincerity to do the right things, you have to see it. He has to prove to you, that things have changed, too much is at stake (your children's lives comes to mind) to TRUST he will do the right thing. You have to see it.

It is his problem to show you that he can be a grown man, and behave as a married man should.

Being a guy, I have a hard time with a man that does not protect his family. A really hard time, as you can tell.

I hope something I have said is of use to you.

God Bless,

JL

I haven't been @ MB for a long while, but it is sure good to see Just Learning still here voicing reason.

If I were you, I would do a lot more reading--not the forums--but the articles, etc. in other parts of this site, to truly understand Plan A & B, LoveBusters, etc. While many might propose saving a marriage at any cost--children are too high of a cost. You need to ensure their wellbeing first & his actions aren't cutting it.

If you really want to consider reconciliation--you need a counselor, a coach to assist with the process--and strict guidelines that he would need to follow through with before allowing him back into the family fold--and you've already stated that his follow through--isn't.

Take care,
Cali

lovebetrayed,
Have you talked to a psychiatrist about your husband? He has serious problems that are beyond the realm of most counselors. He may not be ABLE to work or be a responsible parent. He might be able to do these things if he is treated properly with counseling and appropriate medication.

I also recommend that you read Dr. Harley's articles about physical and emotional disabilities.

Plan A, Plan B, ANY Plan does NOT work in the presence of untreated mental illness.

I would not regard his pleas as meaning any kind of remorse. He is floundering now. He may also be unable to help HIMSELF in terms of getting care. People often seem to think that those with mental problems are just UNWILLING to get care. Often they just can NOT do it for themselves. They literally have to have someone do it all for them. Your husband seems to be totally unfocused and unable to make responsible decisions for himself.

It's good that your sister-in-law keeps him from the internet, etc. but if he is mentally ill, this will NOT solve the problem.

You do indeed seem to have your head on straight, especially regarding your children. But he does NOT. I would imagine that his thinking is very disjointed.

Please consider talking to a psychiatrist.

Blessings,
WH2LE

My sister-in-law is also taking him to counseling, a psychiatrist and a neurologist (at the recommendation) of the family care physician she took him to. Autism runs in their side of the family and they have reason to believe he may have that or something similar, if not at least adult ADHD (which he was diagnosed with in childhood. He was seeing a psychiatrist while he lived in our home, but a very poor one who refused to refer him to a counselor and who just wanted to give him depression medication, which actually made him worse.

Not as an excuse, but he had a really messed up childhood and I think those issues being ignored and him never being properly diagnosed or seen long enough by any one psychiatrist has contributed to his problems. He was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and his mother abandoned him when he was a year old so he has never had a mother. His father used illegal drugs throughout his childhood and went through numerous marriages.

You can see the disaster in how our marriage would workout in that my childhood was the complete opposite. My parents are still happily married and I had a very healthy childhood. But I do believe there comes a time when one has to take responsibility for who they are. My best friend had a pretty crappy childhood with an alcoholic mother and an absent father and she is in a very successful marriage and has a very successful career as a teacher.

I think before we decide what to do, it is best if he get the psychiatric help and counseling and diagnosis he needs.

Our friends have a DS17 who has mild autism. He is on a whole gamut of medicine just to allow him to participate in society normally. Talking to him, you can't tell there's anything wrong with him; no mannerisms at all (though when he was younger he walked on his toes and had some tics). But depending on him to get his homework done, or ride his bike to the store and bring back bread without forgetting why he went, or interact properly and appropriately with people...those are the kinds of things he struggles with. It's very intangible. His mom is planning to have him stay home and go to community college the first two years of college, because she doesn't think he can handle taking care of himself yet.