I suppose your ONS person was using you as much as you were using her...but to me, to utilize another human being like a wad of tissue...

...

...

...

Well...the thought make my stomach hurt and makes me sad all at once.

I'm sorry you had to use another person to make yourself feel whole, In.

But life, and people, are better than that.

I'd say that it would probably be a good example.

Introvert,

My H also tried to rational/justify his A by saying that our marriage was over before he did it. That is classic wayward fog babble. I understand that you see your situation as different than a classic A, but it really isn't. Your marriage wasn't over (even if you thought it was) and you had a ONS.

Early in recovery when my H said that our marriage was over before he had his A, I pointed out to him that since we are still married obviously our marriage was not over, no matter what his foggy head thought. He had a look on his face that told me he understand exactly what I was saying and he never used that excuse (or reason is that's what you want to call it) again.

As for why I did not have a revenge A. I know all too well how painful it is to be betrayed and I never wanted my H to have to think about me having sex with another man because I did not want him to view me that way.

My H's A has changed the way I look at him and even though he has become the most wonderful H since then, just knowing that he did what he did has changed forever the way I view him.

Also I feel like I have lowered my standards already by staying with someone who cheated on me. I do not want to lower them anymore by becoming a cheater.

ONS's, infidelity, orgies, etc... have been around since the birth of Christ. I commend you on your viewpoint, but it's a pretty common practice...always has been.

Well actually they were around long before that, but that doesn't make them any prettier.

What would constitute the marriage being over, then? I disagree with you on this. We can all have our own viewpoints on what exactly an end to a marriage is. Yours is more of a legal/paperwork viewpoint...my viewpoint is that as soon as WW broke her vows to remain faithful to me...marriage over. It's not up to you or anyone else to decide when/how "MY" marriage came to an end...no matter what your views are. You can make that assessment with "your" husband, but you cannot and should not push those viewpoints on me. I was a faithful husband who took vows, and stuck to them. My view has ALWAYS been that if W had an affair...marriage over. I knew it and she knew it...therefore, the fact that the 2 people involved in the union knew that the union would be over if this situation ever happened...it was over.

No offense but this sounds like Ross and rachel from freinds being "on a break'. And i actually understand where your coming from. My WH has come and gone and yeah, its bloody tempting to take up one of the offers I am getting. He's sure the marriage is over, somedays i think so to. but then there are the days when i think "what if". Those are what is stopping me, and the fact that i couldnt look my kids in the eye and say what dad's done is wrong, without feeling like a hypocrite.

I'm very disappointed in your foggy thinking. NO, you aren't the one who gets to make up a definition of marriage and when it is over.

Maybe you wife's definition was that it was over when you pi$$ed her off. Or maybe when you failed to satisfy her every whim. Or maybe if she ever found out you looked at porn. So maybe she was "free" to sleep around, since the marriage was already broken.

See where this kind of foggy thinking carries you?

So because it's COMMON practice, I should just enjoy the pap you are feeding me?

I tasted your pap.

It smelled a lot like the turds that the Wookie tried to feed me during the height of his idiocy.

You can TELL me it's chocolate flavored pap...but it's still bs to me.

And your math is flawed.

Common does NOT equal RIGHT.

It just equals common.

Blah.

I thought you were currently working on recovery? When did your marriage end?

I don't think the term "revenge affair" is meant to apply to A's entered into solely for the purpose of revenge. I think it is a term used to describe A's that occur after being a BS.


I think this statement is a "wolf" in sheep's clothing. In order to feel the same guilt that your WW does, it was neccessary for you to injure her in the way she hurt you. IMHO, replacing "I wanted her to feel the pain of betrayal" with "I wanted to feel the guilt of betraying" doesn't remove the revenge element from the act. She was injured so that you may get something you want (IMHO, whether what you wanted was her pain or your satisfaction is not really relevent) and that injury was acceptable to you because she injured you first. Sounds a lot like revenge to me.

I personally don't care for the idea that the vows I made were conditional on my spouse keeping her vows. I don't think the legal paperwork means anything in particular, nor does it matter if my wife tells me she doesn't love me anymore.

I don't know when it's over really. It certainly can't be over while I'm still in love with my wife. But even then, I can't really predict when my vows end. I guess maybe you just know when you know.

I appreciate all of the responses. I can see that there may have been some form of "revenge" in my intentions...I see that now. Let me repeat that (for those here that tend to skip things)....I see that now...thank you.

I do have to mention our phone session with Jennifer. W had hers first, then myself. W told Jennifer about my "BS affair" (I'm changing the wording). When it was my turn to speak to Jennifer, she asked me about it, I reiderated what W told her...Jennifer asked me if there was any chance of ne seeing this woman again...I said no. She proceded to tell me that this was a "non-issue" then, and that given the cercumstances of what WW had done, and how confused I may have been at the time, what I did was understandable. She said that it's something we "may" discuss in the future, but it seems like it's (like I said before) a "non-issue".

If what i did is just as bad as what WW did, why would she (a professional) call it a "non-issue"? Just asking.

Does your W think it is a non-issue?

Just my opinions but first off, I would not think the point is to compare the relative "evil" of each A. Second, I would not take her calling it a non-issue as a statement to the relative "evil" of your ONS.

I think as you continue the MC with her, that you will see they have a timeline and a process for working recovery. They're goal is to help you restore intimacy to the M. When I did MC with SH, he implied to me that in some cases, they work on restoring some level of intimacy and then tackle the A. In others, they tackle the A very early. I would imagine this is because it is "easier" (and I use the word "easier" very loosely) when some intimacy has returned and the spouses are starting to work together. But I assume there are some cases when discussing the A has to be done first because the BS can't do any of the work restoring intimacy until that is addressed.

Her calling it a non-issue is most likely related to her assessment of when you will have to work through it as opposed to if you will need to work through it. They try very hard to keep you focused on the task at hand.

IMO, that sounds very condesending.

She doesn't really speak about it very often, although I do tell her that I will answer any questions that she may need an answer to. NC is established, POJA is in effect, policy of radical honesty is in place, trying (to the best of my ability right now) to meet her EN's, 1st phone session done, 2nd one (rescheduled) tonight, etc...

Don't be so quick to to assume everything she says is spot-on, I don't care WHO he/she is.

During my first attempt at MC, when we were there due to "my insecurity, paranoia, and jealously ruining our marriage" our counselor said something I could not believe.

We had been discussing the possibility of her having an affair. I had no specific reason to be suspicious, no evidence...I really thought I was being an unreasonable jerk.

He looked me in the eye and said, "So tell me...if your wife really was having an affair, would it kill anyone?"

After I picked up my lower jaw, I told him, "Yes, as a matter of fact, it probably would cause some death".

We didn't see him again.

Did I mention that this occurred almost exactly at the midpoint of my wife's 3.5 year long affair?

Take anything ANY professional tells you with a grain of salt.

Be that as it may. Never intended it to be...just seems to be people here that keep trying to hammer the point home when the point is already taken. Trying to avoid that for once...that's all.

My apologies.

Hmmm...That doesn't really answer what I intended to ask. What I was asking was does your BS Affair bother her at all. I guess I am thinking that it can only be a non-issue if it does not bother your W at all. If it does bother her then does it really matter if a professional called it a non-issue?