I am very big on abuse issues as all of you know. Three days ago I was assaulted by my ex...with my son there to witness her actions. Aside from the obvious issues that arise from having a child witness such an act, I am struggling with having her arrested at this point. My son is on the fence about it and feels that his mom has really crossed a line this time. FTR, this is the 5th time she has lost control of her emotions and come after me.
I am very capable of defending myself and therefore have been able to limit physical damage to not much more than deep scratches and bruises from her digging her nails into me. But that really is not the point...she has no right to do this and has been unable to date to control her emotions when she gets out of control.
We were having a discussion in my driveway and as usual she asked about spending time with me...and as usual, I let her know that ship has passed and will not visit the port ever again. She just feels entitled to another chance (i guess sacrificing years of my life and countless numbers of "last chances" was not enough) and seems to think that manipulation and tantrums are going to get her back in the door. When she regains her composure, she is ashamed of her actions and tactics. In the meantime, I am left trying to pick up the pieces.
I was very proud of my son when he looked her dead in the eye and said if she ever did something like that again, he would NEVER speak to her again. To my credit, I did not strike her back or harm her in any way. I calmly told her she was hurting me...and that I needed her to stop. I made her a promise though that IF she were to ever come after me again that I would respond in a quick and very aggressive fashion. I am truly hoping it never comes to that.
I have received a written acknowledgement and apology from her about the incident. I took pictures of my injuries. I am just unsure as to my next step. I know what I would advise a woman to do in this case...and most men too. I guess there is a part of me that feels that I have sufficiently documented this and will be able to follow through with charges should she act out again.

BTW, the incident resulted from a conversation about my dating...time that she thinks I should be spending with her. For those that do not know, I have full and complete custody of my son. She has no legal rights and in the event of my death, my son will go to my brother and not her.

I have no idea what you should do.

If it were me I doubt I would file charges.

She didn't really put you in fear for your life or anything, did she?

Her misery is her continued punishment. Charges only bring you into MORE conflict with her and likely place you in her presence more. IT could also escalate the justification and rationalizations she utilized to precipitate the violence in the first place to another level...something that really could hurt you.

She's mentally ill. Who knows where her narcissitic entitlement will take her.

Document for next time (and, in case she ever tries to reopend the child case) and keep your distance. Restate your boundaries so that IF and WHEN she does it again...you CAN press charges, if you choose, and hopefully her mind will accept the consequences without blaming you for her never ending misery (such that she can justify MORE violence towards you)

That's what I'd do. Whether it's right...I have no idear.

Mr. W

I'm sorry to hear that you are still in this position, medc. Maybe sharing some of the things that I have learned over time will help you with your situation. Some of the best help I got was in the form of questions asked of me and answering them (to myself and to people I trusted) wasn't usually easy but it was certainly worth it because it brought me closer to the recovery I wanted.

Of the men who you would NOT advise the way you would advise "most" men, what is it about them that you see as being different than "most" other men? Do you put yourself in the category of "most" men or the other category?

Which means that this is (at least) the 5th time that you have allowed her the opportunity to abuse you. Why so many times?

If you are capable of defending yourself, then why aren't you? Why are you allowing her to deeply scratch and bruise you?

It appears that "manipulation and tantrums" are getting her back in the door....or at least letting her get close to you physically, for now.

Have you considered implementing boundaries that would take away the opportunity for potential abuse...and take away the potential for mixed messages and/or misunderstanding?

What exactly is a "quick and very aggressive fashion"? Does she know what you're talking about? If you're not clear, it invites more conflict and contact as well as misunderstanding.

Why are you allowing intimate and personal conversations with her? That sends a mixed message to an abuser.

Your next step(s) depend on your motives. And, imho, exploring our motives for tolerating and even perpetuating abuse against us is the hardest part of recovering from it.

Take care

No, not at all.

Yes, her misery is continued punishment for her.

I think holding off for now is a good option. She is ill but I am getting to the point where I am no longer concerned with her issues until they infringe on my life. I respond to her in a way that has been suggested by a therapist and for the most part, it puts her in her place. There are times though where she just seems to lose her self control.

I will tolerate nothing more from her. While I have been hesitant to respond with force, I am not going to sit still for another attack. I am hoping that further incidents will be avoided if no other reason than what my son said to her. He meant what he said about not talking to her again...and she knows it.

the other category. The difference being an ability to defend oneself. I have been on countless calls where the WOMAN literally kicked the living cr@p out of the man....and he did nothing to defend himself...in many cases because he couldn't.



Standing there having a rational conversation with a person and they snap...sometimes all you can do is respond. Since I have tried to maintain a relationship between my son and his mom (at his request) there are times where I have been in her presence. I knew this woman for 12-13 years before she slapped me for the first time.



Honestly, because I have not wanted to hurt her. I have allowed her to a point to get away with what she has done in order for her to see the results. She no longer is making excuses for her bad behavior...she literally gets sick at her reactions. I have taken this off the table and will feel free to respond in the future.


not at all, in fact, that is where her frustration comes from.


yes.



she has received a consistent message for a long time. She just doesn't want to hear it. She lives in her world where her wants override everything else.


I am trained to respond to aggression...quick would mean immediate before she gets her hands on me...aggressive...well, that all depends on how much force would be needed to incapacitate her. I don't imagine it would be much based on experience and her size/strength. She has no misunderstandings about this now. She knows that I will not tolerate another attack without response.


the conversation was anything but intimate and personal. That is what angered her. I gave her my stock answer of, "I will see and date anyone I so choose. We are not a couple and will never again be a couple. Please get on with your life and find peace."




I agree. My motives are clear and have been.

Thank you.

MEDC

Sorry to hear that medc.

If it were me, I would not file charges. But I would not ever be in the same physical location as the person again. (or at least not until I was confident that they had changed) Its just too risky.

So, are you only around her because of your son? Since you have full custody, I assume that you and your son could agree to adjust how/when you interact with her?

yes on both counts. This happened in my driveway as I will not allow her in my home. There will be a change in our interactions.

I think you'd better file charges and get a restraining order. If you can get a restraining order without filing charges do that.

Medc, consider carefully what will happen if you defend yourself. You could hurt her, and she would file charges on you. If you don't have a legal paper trail, you're the one who could get in serious trouble.

I don't think it's worth the risk.

thanks for the advice. I am pretty comfortable with the paper trail and having been a police officer, know how to handle certain issues. She would NEVER put her son in a position of having to testify against her...and he would in a heartbeat. She has already assaulted me in front of him and several other people.

If I call the police, she will be arrested. If I file a restraining order, she will also be arrested. If I defend myself, yes, she would most likely get hurt...but she would still go to jail. It never mattered who got the worst of the beating on a domestic call. The one that responded to an attack was the plaintiff...the other was locked up. 50% of the time, it was the woman going to jail.

Thank you for your concern and taking the time to post.

MEDC

This is what I was going to suggest, a restraining order.

She is trying to weasel in. So make it official that you want nothing to do with her.

If I understand, there are no exchanges for co-parenting, so why even allow that door to even look open to her.

Close the door. If you can't do it personally, ask the judge to send the message that it's closed, period.

this is not correct. While she does not have any legal say in matters concerning my son, I do afford her the ability to spend time with him and be involved with school and medical activities. I think this benefits him....for now.

She does pick him up here and drop him back off. Our interactions are pretty bare boned from my side...she has attempted for several years now to weasel her way back in to no avail.

**EDIT**

well, since you consider yourself to be among the top 10% of intelligent people....answer 3 things for me please..
first...do you know my history with my ex?
second...do you know what caused her to lose her child??? NO legal rights at all?
third...do you make a habit of saying that a person that is being abused caused the harm? your comment about how words provoke abuse show your ignorance.

so, what other names have you posted under?

Thank you for the clarification. Obviously, if she is unable to respect the boundaries you've set, then perhaps this will have to change. Either in the logistics of the change, such as with someone else, or no exchanges at all.

Tough decision for sure.

Regarding the tacit allegation you deserved being attacked and scratched. Bovine Scatology.

No one ever deserves to be abused, period.

Just to clarify, I used some cushion and said within top 20%.

If you read my response carefully, you should see that I used the word "guess." In no way did I said or implied that I was correct for certain.

There is nothing ignorant about saying that words can provoke abuse. It happens all the time, if not most of the time.

Saying that abuse provoked by words is justifiable is a whole different thing, which is not what I said, but something that you seemed to imply that I said.

I think EE summed up your post best.

So, care to answer the questions?

I think I posed 4 to you...

I "guess" you are just an a-hole...now, I am not certain...I'm just throwing that out there.

I would get the restraining order and she'll have to deal with the consequences for her actions.

As for an arrest for abuse, I had no idea you can have someone arrested after the fact of the abuse. Even with the paper trail... can that actually be done?

I get the sense we don't need to tell you NOT TO TOUCH HER -- but I'll repeat it anyway. Whatever you do - DON'T TOUCH HER.

I'm sorry your son has to witness this ... how horrible for him!

MEDC:

We stand on the opposite sides of things around here often.

You tend to drop the hammer on people.

DO THIS.
DO THAT.

If this was NEWJOE on the GQ board you would be telling him to "get her arrested, file for an R/O, and go for custody quick!"

Sort of tougher to do when you are in those shoes.

She may not deserve to be "in jail"

And shes never really going to physically "hurt" you. (Scratches yes, emotional, yes, maybe if she bought a gun, YES, but she could never "knock you out..")

You probably feel rather sad for her. And fearful for your son.

I would just recommend a Plan B type lifestyle with her.

You have to have her visits with your son monitored, so maybe you need an intermediary to do the watching her for you.

Just remove yourself from the loop. Pickups and dropoffs when your in the house. You know the details of the plan B drill. Time to implement them.

Arrest her? Sure, you could. But your right, what would the point be?

Protect your son, as needed and required by your decree, and then just step into the darkness away from her.

Tough place and NO easy answers.

LG

you're right on most of your points LG. If I did not already have "bullet proof" custody..I most likely would have arrested. At this point all it does is create a situation that will, IMO, eventually harm my son. I will take your words into consideration.

Hi MEDC,

I avoid contact with my WXH as much as possible. (He lives in another state now and rarely has visitation with our daughters so I only see him a few times per year now.) But when he was still in the state I had some boundary issues with him somewhat similar to what you're dealing with.

Just like your WX, mine thought he was entitled to spend time with me, even though he was choosing to dump me for the OP.
(But his threats/acts of violence were usually not related to his attempts to get near me, more about trying to control me or part of his pretense that we couldn't get along when he wanted to get rid of me at the end of each brief fake recovery... my bad.)

I haven't seen much info about how long it takes the WS to get out of that entitlement mindset (if ever?) But IMHO as long as the WS feels entitled they won't appreciate being given another chance anyway. So even if you hadn't already given her numerous chances, and even if you hadn't moved on, and even if you didn't have a new girlfriend, there'd be no point in spending time with your WX anyway.

My WX tried to claim that I "had to" spend time with him, "because the kids need to see us together"...
What excuse does your XW state? Her complaint that the time you spend with your girlfriend should be spent with her instead is laughable! Is she still involved with the OM? Has she admitted any wrongdoing for her adultery? (Sorry, I haven't been here for a while and can't remember your story details.)

I am curious about your situation because when my WXH comes to town I still have some boundary issues with him expecting to be invited into my home, and getting to hang out with us like we're still a family... The ONLY reason there is any contact with him is because he sometimes comes to visit our daughters or to pick them up to go spend time where he lives. I'm guessing the contact with your XW is related to visitation with your son? I mostly avoid even speaking to my WXH about ANYTHING, let alone relationship issues. In such cases, where the WXS won't accept boundaries, is it advised to put an intermediary in place just like in Plan B? (I'd prefer to not even be here when WXH comes over but then he invites himself in to watch movies and hang out in my home with our daughters just like it's still his home/family too.)

In such cases, is it advised to sort of Plan B the WXS forever? I mean if Plan B didn't lead to marital recovery, then what? The divorce is over, marital recovery isn't really an option anymore, so why bother having any more contact with them? Is it typical for WXS's to try to exploit visitation to keep in contact with the BS? Do most BS's put up with that? Again, I haven't seen much written about what to do when the divorce is over and all recovery efforts have ended. It just doesn't make sense to allow the WS back in, meeting their demands as if nothing happened. I personally couldn't even be friends with my WXS if he wasn't even sorry for what he did.

Is it advised to send another Plan B type letter in such cases, reminding the WXS that you don't want any further contact with them?

What does your girlfriend think of your WXW's crazy possessive behavior? What does the OM think? I'm hoping that I will remarry someday and THEN my WXH will finally get the message that he's no longer welcome here. But when I read your message it made me wonder if that will solve the problem? IMHO it's simply amazing that your WXW thinks she has a valid complaint about you spending time with a girlfriend now.

um and to the comment that MEDC might have said something to cause his WXW to physically attack him:

He told her she wasn't entitled to demand he spend time with her instead of with his girlfriend. It would be wrong for a BS to physically attack a WS for rejecting them for an OP, and it is even more wrong for a WS to attack a BS for finally moving on and starting a relationship with somebody new, BECAUSE the WS rejected all recovery offers from the BS. Sheesh!

"what I am saying is that medc was not completely innocent by politely rejecting her request, but he probably did it in a way that was rude and completely unnecessary for the other party to receive the "no" message."

BTW, If my WXH tries to tell me I can't date somebody, because I have to spend time with him instead, after I stop laughing at him I will probably tell him "NO" in a way that could be called 'rude' and might hurt his feelings - so what? BECAUSE a WXS demanding to be given another chance is such an offensive form of rudeness, with completely unnecessary disregard for the feelings of the BS on the recieving end of such a demand. And he best recieve the message regardless of how I deliver it, without reacting violently towards me, or I will have him arrested.