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Just for the record....I always kind-of catered to him. I never got mad and withheld sex or anything else. There may have been a couple of times during four different pregnancies when the two week point have been nearing, but that was it. I always gave him plenty of space and let him do what he wanted. (obviously too much) I wasn't a jealous complaining wife. He was pretty hard on me though. I definately gave a lot of attention to the kids, but they demanded it and we couldn't afford to get babysitters. 4 kids in 7 years, yes life was hectic, but I really always did everything and for the first two I was also working full time and nursing/pumping. It was hard, but not sure how much I demanded of him, so I'm not sure that was what he was searching for here. I think once I stayed home, and we weren't going out a lot, I just got boring to him. I think when I worked I had some ligitamacy. When we went out people would notice me and he would feel he was glad to be with me. I think I lost that in his eyes when I stopped working. Although I never really let myself go or anything....whatever, That's just what I think happened. Not sure that I can even correct that.

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Can you guess what his ENs are? If you did the EN questionnaire as if you were him, what would those needs be? I am wondering if you have been trying to meet his needs all along and they haven't been the needs that he needed met (did that make sense?). I just mean that what if you were giving him SF and all along what he really wanted was admiration? Or what if one of his top ENs is financial support?

If you look closely at your H, you might be able to guess...I'm just assuming that he wouldn't be up for doing the questionnaire at this point...

Once you know what his ENs are, you can really FOCUS on those things. But remember, it is for a MONTH...and then he needs to step up and do something.


BW 37 (Me).
F?WH 35.
06/97 Married.
Three sons...4, 5, and 7.
06/04 EA begins (Unknown to me).
02/10/05 D-Day EA (Unknown PA).
02/24/08 D-Day LTA 3+ YEARS! (same OW).


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Oh Sink! I am so glad to see you getting on board.
Remember this is YOUR plan, and he is not to know anything about it or have knowledge of MB. Keep him away from this (he's not ready yet!)

Here is a great start on Emotional Needs by Dr. Harley:

Quote
In the Most Important Emotional Needs section of my Basic Concepts, I describe 10 important emotional needs that should not be ignored in marriage. The following Q&A columns address five of those ten needs.

Affection

Affection is extremely important in marriage, yet after a few years and a few children, couples usually drift into a relationship void of affection. This is unfortunate because without it, couples miss much of what marriage has to offer. In the column, How to Meet the Need for Affection, I address not only the importance of affection in marriage, but the fact that it's a skill that can be learned by anyone. And if you want to have a great sexual relationship, the environment of affection turns out to be an essential ingredient.

Sexual Fulfillment

Sexual fulfillment is also an important emotional need. In fact, after questions on infidelity, the next most commonly asked questions I receive are about sexual problems. Since most of these questions are from women who don't enjoy sex as much as their husbands do, the columns I've posted encourage husbands to make sex more attractive to their wives. But the solutions I offer can often be applied to men as well, where wives must learn to make sex more attractive to their husbands.

How to Meet the Need for Sexual Fulfillment is a column about how to improve sexual interest. Since the problem is so complex, it just scratches the surface, but sometimes a scratch is all that's needed. I emphasize the importance of conversation and affection in providing a necessary environment for sex. A related column is Changing a Willingness to Make Love into a Desire to Make Love. Through a series of e-mail Q&A letters with a frustrated woman, I guide her through a procedure that changes her willingness to make love into a desire to make love. Many have found this column particularly helpful after children arrive.

A good sexual rule of thumb is "don't have sex if it's painful." But when it is painful, what should you do? How to Overcome Pain During Intercourse addresses a common complaint among women. In this column I describe both primary and secondary causes of sexual pain, and how they can be eliminated.

When someone regularly associates pain and discomfort with sex, a sexual aversion is likely to form. And when it does, it can bring sex in marriage to an end. How to Overcome Sexual Aversion is in response to letters from women who have come to a point where sex has become repulsive and frightening. Is there any hope for women with a sexual aversion? There is, if they follow my suggestions.

What to Do When Your Spouse Has an Addiction to Pornography is especially relevant in this age of the internet. Pornography has become an unwanted intruder in many marriages. I offer ways to kick the intruder out.


Conversation

If you and your spouse don't talk to each other enough, how can you expect to have a good marriage?

For many couples, conversation has become downright painful. If you and your spouse have trouble talking to each other, you would benefit from What to do When Your Conversation Becomes Boring and Unpleasant. In this column, you will learn how the enemies of good conversation will keep you from talking to each other. But you will also learn how the friends of good conversation can get you back to those deep and intimate conversations that helped create your love for each other.

Recreational Companionship

One of the biggest risks of marriage is growing apart. Left to your own devices, you and your spouse will develop separate lifestyles, and ultimately slip into incompatibility, and possibly divorce. To avoid that unhappy outcome, I encourage you to spend most of your leisure time together. I can't emphasize this point enough. Unless you and your spouse are each other's best friends and favorite recreational companions, you will not have the love for each other that you want and need. Why Should a Couple Be Together When They Are the Happiest? addresses that issue.

Recreational companionship is a key factor in drawing spouses together. It was what got you together when you were dating, and it helped you fall in love with each other. But what was fun when you were dating may now be boring to at least one of you. I have posted two columns that are designed to encourage you to become each other's best friends. They are What to Do When Your Recreational Companionship Becomes Boring and Unpleasant (Part 1) and What to Do When Your Recreational Companionship Becomes Boring and Unpleasant (Part 2).

On a related theme, another column wrestles with the complaint, We Don't Spend Enough Time with Each Other. Neglect not only withdraws love units, but it turns out to be the single most important reason that women divorce men, and they divorce men twice as often as men divorce women. College educated women divorce 10 times more often as men. Men, if you want to keep your wife around, listen up.

Physical Attractiveness

One of the most controversial aspects of my program is to include physical attractiveness as one of the important emotional needs in marriage. Remember, I am not telling anyone what their emotional needs should be -- I simply list those that have been the most commonly identified by others. But I get lots of complaints, mostly from women, that I should not even mention it as an alternative. Sadly, these women are ignoring a way to deposit love units. In my column, Meeting the Emotional Need for Physical Attractiveness, I have a chance to defend my position on this important subject.

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That is a start, and there a lots of articles on this website about how to meet those needs. Those were only 5, there are 5 more.

Like admiration. I know my man just about wags his tail like a puppy dog when I ADMIRE him. Opening a jar for me? I'll rub his arms and APPRECIATE his strength (and flirt with him at the same time!)

Bring some FUN back into your relationship!

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o.k. I hear ya...I will be trying to stop being so depressed...admire him more ( the one I think we need the most) and pay attention to the others mentioned...tom. I will read the other 5...Thank you !

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Sink;

Get into your dr. ASAP. Living in these conditions causes all kinds of stress and depression. You need to be on anti-depressents.

We always advise the BW to take care of herself first! Living like this can cause Post-Traumatic Stress.


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I second the idea for meds. This is traumatic in the BEST of lives...but most of us already have other stresses in our lives that the A is just added to. It can be overwhelming. One of the last things you want to do is allow yourself to fall into a deep depression...I was almost there when I looked for help.

HTM

PS. What have you done today that was GREAT?


BW 37 (Me).
F?WH 35.
06/97 Married.
Three sons...4, 5, and 7.
06/04 EA begins (Unknown to me).
02/10/05 D-Day EA (Unknown PA).
02/24/08 D-Day LTA 3+ YEARS! (same OW).


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We will see how I feel later...but for now, I am making it o.k. It would be one thing if I am having my own problems and need medication. I will not allow him to drive me to that for this. I would much sooner have him gone. I will get help if needed, but at this point I am o.k. It is really tough though!!! Tonight he asked what the plans were for tonight and asked if I wanted to to go to the gym or all go to the pool. I just took the kids to the lake all day yesterday, so I said I might just go to the gym while you take them to the pool. Then he called back...Just wanted to let you know that you know who takes a class on Thurs. nights....AHHHHH! I said calmly...no of course I wouldn't know that considering you told me she no longer went to outr gym. He jumped down my throat...I said nothing more...Then I called him back and just said based on my response His reaction was uncalled for. He called back and apologized and said it was hard for him to make that call, but he didn't want me to walk into that situation without knowing. (Of course if he wasn't talking to her he wouldn't have known that) Ahhhhh.

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Originally Posted by sinkingin
We will see how I feel later...but for now, I am making it o.k. It would be one thing if I am having my own problems and need medication. I will not allow him to drive me to that for this. I would much sooner have him gone. I will get help if needed, but at this point I am o.k. It is really tough though!!! Tonight he asked what the plans were for tonight and asked if I wanted to to go to the gym or all go to the pool. I just took the kids to the lake all day yesterday, so I said I might just go to the gym while you take them to the pool. Then he called back...Just wanted to let you know that you know who takes a class on Thurs. nights....AHHHHH! I said calmly...no of course I wouldn't know that considering you told me she no longer went to outr gym. He jumped down my throat...I said nothing more...Then I called him back and just said based on my response His reaction was uncalled for. He called back and apologized and said it was hard for him to make that call, but he didn't want me to walk into that situation without knowing. (Of course if he wasn't talking to her he wouldn't have known that) Ahhhhh.

What does he do for living that allows him so much time to be spent with the OW?

What does the OW do? Ever expose the affair at her workplace?

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He doesn't see her while working...he is a very hard worker...but he has about an hour commute which allows them to "catch up" in morning and afternoon. She has now had 4 jobs in the last year to my knowledge. Give you a little insight? I am really starting to feel like my greatest hope of staying married is to have him leave. I think the disconnect of the way they live there lives may in fact be my greatest alli. (sp?)

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Sink --
Please re-think your stance on meds. You are clearly in a situation beyond anyone's ability to cope. Meds will calm you. Make you able to think clearly. And that is so important at this point in your relationship. To have the control needed to not LoveBUST.

As far as yesterday. I'll say this about your exchange.
First of all, just assume their affair is still ongoing. That will save you a lot of craziness in trying to "catch" him all the time. Just accept that fact and get on with YOUR plan.

Second, it is OK for you to show him your pain -- as long as you aren't doing it in the form of a Lovebuster. So no sarcasm, no angry outbursts, no disrespectful judgements, etc.

Also, you want to paint the ideal picture for him every chance you get. The ideal picture is that you and he are in love and raising your family together. So you need to have a mantra.
"There is a way for us to save this family."

The correct response to him would be something like this:
"Thank you Bob for saving me the pain of running into your mistress. That would have been an awful situation for me. Of course the ideal situation would be if you didn't have a mistress, wouldn't it?" Be sincere in your appreciation for him looking out for you.

SO -- tell us about your Plan A efforts yesterday.
Did you have an opportunity to admire or appreciate him?
Could you be affectionate?
Did you flirt with him?


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Yes Sink,

Plan B is coming. You will want him to leave.

However you have some damage control to do first.
You need his last memories of you to be fantastic.
Then you will go dark. He gets no more of you.

And OW has to meet all of the needs YOU met for him.
Plus the contract of living with HER vs. living with his own family. Plus the losses she will have to make up for (and will never be able to....)

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o.k. didn't bring that situation up again. I wanted to just stay home and clean while they went to the pool, but instead I did go. I sat calmly in a chair, I swam and played with the kids. We went and got some stuff to grill after and all sat and ate together. Then he went to the gym. We hung out alittle and went to bed, snuggled up.

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Sink;

What did you do for your HUSBAND. Not just a list of tasks for the day. But how did you meet your husband's emotional needs?
What are his 5 most important? Which ones are OW currently meeting?

Quote
But not all emotional needs are created equally. When some are met, you may only feel comfortable--they make small Love Bank deposits. There are others, however, that can make you feel downright euphoric. In fact they make you so happy that you're likely to fall in love with the person that meets them. I call those our most important emotional needs because they make the largest Love Bank deposits of all. And those are the very same emotional needs that a husband and wife expect each other to meet in marriage.

By now you can probably see where I'm headed. My first goal when counseling a couple is to help them identify their most important emotional needs. Once those needs are identified, I help them learn to meet those needs for each other. I want them to make the largest deposits possible into each other's Love Banks. If all goes well, they begin making those large deposits and eventually they are in love with each other.

When I first began using this approach to saving marriages, I didn't know what made people the happiest in marriage -- I didn't know what emotional needs would be the most important. So I had to ask hundreds of men and women that question, "What could your spouse do for you that would make you the happiest?"

As spouses explained what they wanted most, I classified their desires into emotional need categories. And almost all those I interviewed described one or more of only ten emotional needs as being most important to them (admiration, affection, conversation, domestic support, family commitment, financial support, honesty and openness, physical attractiveness, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment). Very few ever named a most important emotional need that was not included in this list of ten.

I also made a revolutionary discovery that helped me understand why husbands and wives tended not to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Whenever I asked couples to list their needs according to what they needed most, men would list them one way and women the opposite way. Of the 10 emotional needs, the five listed as most important by men were usually the five least important for women, and vice-versa.

What an insight! It is no wonder that husbands and wives have so much difficulty meeting each other's needs: They lack empathy. They are willing to do for each other what they appreciate the most, but it turns out that their efforts are misdirected. What they appreciate the most, their spouses appreciate the least!

Pay close attention to this next point I am about to make, because it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of my entire program.

Everyone is unique. While men on average pick a particular set of five emotional needs as their most important and women on average pick another set of five, any given man or woman can and do pick various combinations of the ten. So even though I know the most important emotional needs of the average man and woman, I don't know the emotional needs of any particular husband or wife.

I'm in the business of trying to save all marriages, not just average marriages, so I encourage each couple to ignore what I say about average male and female needs and identify those that are unique to them. That way each spouse's list of the most important emotional needs reflects what he or she appreciates the most. When they meet those needs for each other, they create the greatest happiness, and trigger a mutual feeling of love.

These conclusions are reflected in my book His Needs, Her Needs where I explain how couples build romantic love by learning how to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Readers are encouraged to identify these needs by using the Emotional Needs Questionnaire that I provide at the back of the book. Then I encourage them to become experts at meeting those needs. This questionnaire is also available to you on this website. Just click, Emotional Needs Questionnaire, to discover the most important emotional needs for you and your spouse. Be sure to print two copies so you and your spouse each have one.

Before you fill out the questionnaire read a short description of each need that I've provided for you so that you will be accurate in the choices you make.


Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration
Once you have identified each other's most important emotional needs, your next step is to learn how to meet them. I've written several Q&A columns to help you achieve that objective. Listed below are some of those columns

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Sink;

Let's break these down one by one and rank how important they are to your husband. And whether you or OW is meeting them.

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

Can you rank these in order of how important they are to your husband?

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well, I figured based on the ones I read yesterday that we would be doing recreational activities together, I tried to be playful while we were swimming, when he came home, we were ready to go, to cut down on the stress. When we went into the store together, which we never do. I tried to hold conversations throughout the night. We always have talked though about things he wants.

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Affection and admiration...what he is getting from ow.

Family commitment, honest, open, physical attractiveness, recreational companionship, financial support....why he hasn't left

sexual fulfillment I am guessing he doesn't have a problem with either of us. I think although less often with her...new raw feelings have to make it much more exciting. I'm quite certain she would be willing to go out of the box for him. She will do anything to get him, and for me, he would not feel comfortable with me thinking he somehow perverted.

conversation is questionable...I think we can't talk as well because of underlying feelings, his of failing me and mine of him still feeling for her, but that's why I went so long in the dark, cause our lives here really didn't change much, he still taked and hugged me and we had sex etc...the whole time.

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Family Commitment: obviously she can't compete with you on this one. Just keep stressing how important his role is within this family. Don't make it seem like you can do without him. OW is "needy" she is unable to cope with what is going on (roll-eyes!) and that is ATTRACTIVE to him -- to be needed. It may be that you have been too efficiant. Make sure you know that he is needed by you.

Recreational Companionship: This does NOT mean family time. What are his most enjoyable activities? Does he have any hobbies? Is this something OW shares with him?
Just a question, how old are your boys again?

You need to date your husband. Just you and him.

Honesty and Openness: Unfortunately, he doesn't really share that with either of you right now. He is an inherently dishonest person right now. Is this something important to him? That the people in his life are honest with him?

I'll be back later to cover more!

Try to have more conversations with him. Just talk. Not about anything important. Flirt with him!




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he works out a lot something we used to do together. She does go to the gym and they did used to see each other there. I do work out more now...we used to always lift together and then stopprd because of kids and schedules. I have been starting to get back into it. I think he just thought she was cool...Like I am always a little uptight and want to make sure everything is under control..she flies by the seat of her pants, even with her children which I hate!!! I have tried to be a lot more laid back in the past year. I think I have done that. Even though I can and do "do it all" it still isn't enough for him. He still wants the house to be cleaner and better organized etc. (It is alright) it doesn't need "clean house" but could be better. (Need to work on closets and basement) We do have four boys...they are 10,9,6,4.

Financially I stay home now. But I do daycare part time so I do earn almost what I used to working full-time. I said that one goes in my court only because she obviously can't hold a job and he knows me well enough to know that I will always figure out a way to earn what I need to support my family. (Always been a very hard worker)

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THAT was the perfect example of a LB. You WANT your H to make those kind of phone calls. You want him to WANT to tell you those things.

So the next time that he gives you a heads up with info on the OW, you need to say "Thank you for telling me that. It was very considerate. I am confused though, because I thought that she didn't go to our gym anymore." That way you aren't accusing him of a lie and putting him on the defensive.

If you react that way, your H is going to learn that it is better NOT to tell you than to risk your reaction.


BW 37 (Me).
F?WH 35.
06/97 Married.
Three sons...4, 5, and 7.
06/04 EA begins (Unknown to me).
02/10/05 D-Day EA (Unknown PA).
02/24/08 D-Day LTA 3+ YEARS! (same OW).


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