It's too bad you couldn't go too. I think it was good on his part to pick up on your feelings and be willing to choose something that would not make you uncomfortable. And good for you, stating your need and accepting/expecting that he is a mature man that CAN make good choices.

So the kitchen remodel was a result of the EA? I can see how you might attach the completion of the kitchen to a feeling. It's good that you are talking to him about it.

Perhaps you need to plan your next long-term activity together that will start once the kitchen remodel is done.

I wish I could go. We tried to get tickets but the event is sold out. He is going with a man through work. H uses this gentleman to hire contract programmers. This man benefits greatly each time H uses one of his hires -- he's an executive headhunter. So, maybe they can talk a little shop since they'll be off work premesis. It's a way for this guy and his company to say thank you for the business.
As for the kitchen, it's not a result of the EA. They simply coincided. If I never heard some of the things he said to me then I may not still think he'd leave. Who knows! But, I'll see what we can do about planning. We're thinking an inground pool in our back-yard...that takes a while right?

You have such a great personality. You make me laugh!

Hang in there!

It's funny you say that..today I had the 5th person tell me how much I've changed over the past year. Apparently there is no spark in my personality and no twinkle in my eye. Hmmm....I wonder if that's because the person I love most in this world told me indirectly that I wasn't good enough! Oh well, I'll have to see what I can do about restoring the spark & sparkle. When I told H that yet another person at Church said that to me this morning his response was "well, I guess that's my fault too." I did not comment as I knew I would cry or begin an argument. I have no engergy for either as it's a busy day with kid type activities.
By the way...the A free weekend did not quite work out the way I planned. I feel like an emotional wreck some days and I suppose yesterday was one of them. Friday night he went to the ballgame but did come home early. I told him I appreciated his thoughtfulness but could not get out of my mind that he did not communicate with us in any way while at the game. Apparently he 'forgot' his cell phone in his car. Ummm....this is a man who takes it in the bathroom sometimes. A bit strange that he forgot it on a night when I was fearful of who he'd be with. Really, my rational mind knew where he was and who he was with, but the irrational side (which seems in control right now) imagined him on a hot date -- not even something they ever did. So, the internal struggles are mine right now. I know that I have to be the one who can 'get over' this in order for us to repair any damage done. Right now, I'm not seeing the end for me. I don't see me getting over this any time soon. So, each day I will take it 24 hours at a time and see how I end up.
I hope it was good for you. We'll chat on Monday.

fiori,

I had to read up on Dr. Harley's articles and information about obsessing to "snap me out of it", so to speak. I read where he said that obsessing is very damaging. I still do it sometimes, and it's so hard once I let myself go to that deep dark hole to get out of it.

That's why I know how hurt you feel. Try not to let those evil alien thoughts get the best of you. You're far too precious to allow that dumpy red head's venom to be anywhere on your skin or in your heart.

Ha,ha...I just watched one of the Aliens with my DH this weekend and I was thinking about the acid that they spit out that burns up the person and the clothing that it touches.

Have you ever heard of Radical Forgiveness? It's a book from Colin Tippin (spelling?). It comes with a CD with some terrific music on it and an exercise you can go through to help remove those yucky feelings.

I just said last night to that sweet man of mine that I needed to read a book. I go through spurts where I need to read and then I can go for a long while. So, I'll look it up and see if it helps me.

Today is a little better. I left with one of my son's to take him to band practice and spent the couple of hours with my friend and her kids watching as they did 'tricks' in the blow up pool. I knew if I stayed here all day I'd just pick at him so I waited for the child to be finished. Smart choice!
So, spewing venom? Where can I get me a bottle of that there yucky stuff? I'd need a garden hose to adminsiter that!

This past weekend I had a bit of a realization regarding the recovery from H's EA. Basically, in order for us to really come to a point where we have a healthy marriage, I have to do most of the hard work. Yes, he has to be emotionally available and re-connect to our marriage and stay away from the dumpy red-head, but really...the work is mine. I have to find a way to really forgive him and be able to move past feeling as if I was kicked to the curb and replaced with a younger/better model. H does not get it when I tell him it feels like he has a mental tick list running in his head and is constantly comparing she and I. He says that was never ever a factor...it just was. To me, that's ridiculous. If I decided to 'date' another man while married I guarantee you he'd be comparing himself to this OP constnatly. So, because my H fell prey to his ego, I'm left trying to discover how compassionate and kind my own heart is. Right now, I cannot imagine me in a position when I totally forgive. I am trapped by my desire to move on and my need to protect myself from any further hurt. No, I don't think there will never be hurt again in my life, but there can't be hurt and pain like this. I cannot allow myself to be vulnerable to this betrayal ever again. My problem is that my father did this to my mother. He's been dead for 20 years and her anger and bitterness from betrayal are as fresh today as they were when it occurred. No way am I going to look back at my life to find out that all I have consistently in my life is bitterness. Yesterday at church someone who knows me mostly as an acquaintance said I seemed 'different'. This is about the fifth person in the last year to comment that I'd lost a certain spark. Hmmm....
So, I struggle with the reality of what lies ahead of me. I have to be able to look in the mirror and feel confident trusting my H again. And, I have to trust myself...something I'm not sure I can do. I was duped. I was fooled and taken advantage of. Last night H told me he felt he was in the fight of his life. He's struggling with our marriage, with his job, with his reputation with our kids and financially. There is not one part of his life that seems secure to him. I'm basically afraid to have fun. If I'm seen laughing and playing does he then automatically assume I'm 'fixed'? This is what he is waiting for. I'm not sure I have to tools to fix myself on my own. Sadly, our insurance changed on January 1 and no longer allows for counseling. I'm going to try to hold it together for a few more months so we can switch back and I can get taken care of. Last night H also told me that he was fearful that I'd never be able to get over this. I'm fearful of this very thing. I so don't want to ruin our future because there's a hurdle I can not overcome. How do you do it? Is it simply too soon? Should I still feel such rage when I think of OW? The rage frightens me sometimes. I fantacize about what I'd do if I saw her. Some days that prospect is exciting and others it makes me nautious. So, I'm stuck. Afraid to move ahead and afraid to remain in the past. How long before I feel good enough to take a step?

I think you HAVE to get over the rage before you can really start recovering. And I don't know HOW you do that. Other than just trying your very best to let go of it inside and embrace the place that you and your H are at now. You need to be having fun and laughing...H won't see you as fixed. And if he does, you just remind him that you aren't.

Your H is doing a lot of good things for recovery. Try to look at those things. Focus on the positive and really make a conscious effort to remove the negative. I don't mean you need to be blind to what is going on around you, but you need to get into a position of control where you mind wanders. Find a mantra and say it over and over when the negative thoughts creep in.

As much as you and I have discussed the pros and cons of MB, I think that you might be wise to jump in with some faith for awhile and see how it goes. Try following the MB principles. Spend the time together doing fun things. Talk about how both of you are protecting your M with Extraordinary Precautions. It might give you more peace of mind to have a real PLAN.

I'll tell you how it goes with Jennifer. Maybe that would be helpful too.

There's really no betrayal in my relation personally, but my wife seems to have similar views to what you're feeling. I understand that and those feeling are real and important. But if your husband is truly repentive and you can logically see that, does it makes sense to weigh what life will be like for your family in Divorce as oppose to marriage?

I could be way off and I didn't read up on this particular case, but to me it seems like recovering marriage is a temporarly thing..a couple years of dedication and it can be as good as new? But divorce is forever...when you have kids atleast. It isn't a way of really getting rid of the pain. Maybe it's just that you need to come to terms with who you are what've you've done. Find the right boundaries between you and your spouse and leave the rest up to God.

Mel,
I agree. But just to be clear, it was H who deviated, not me. It's probably not really important to clear that up but I felt a ripple of yuckiness when I thought you might have thought it was me.

You know what? I'm not sure I can do this any more. I have too much hurt, too much betrayal and too much lack of progress.
I'm not sure I'm capable of moving past this and moving forward. H is a total A*$. Too much is going on in our lives at the same time and he thinks we need to table our relationship stuff so we can deal with the rest of our lives....kitchen renovation, money & tuition. Really??? Is that how it works? You table stuff and put it on the back burner? Never mind....I'm not even making sense. I simply feel like I falling down a tunnel and cannot climb out.

God Fiori - I was there and know what you are talking about and feeling. I was fortunate to have a MC who I could call and she would clear the forest for me. The reality was I could not change the past. I had to accept I contributed to contaminating the relationship. I had a husband who was committed to recovery.
I had to answer did a few months of misguided direction (going through his MLC) worth throwing away 18 years of what we built together? Yeah it sucks because if something was wrong in the relationship - I would not have gone to an affair but he chose to. If you read a book about boys and how they act out when they want attention you can understand male behavior. My husband wanted me to find out about his affair. Women talk about what they feel - men act it out. If your husband is committed to recovery it takes time. I can only speak for myself - in our case it was my husband's commitment to recovery that brought me back to him. I still deal with resentment and I was recently thinking about it. I'm resentful because I would not have chosen an affair and he did. Reality check again-I can not change the past. My marriage is better than ever and I'm glad I got through the forest. I just have to deal with the little fires.

G

So your H did not have a PA? Sometimes I think I need to simply wake up and be glad for that. I read so many other posts about the horrific scene that occurs when a PA happens. Maybe I should be grateful it never progressed to that level.?? But, I don't feel grateful at all. I feel resentment and anger and betrayal. I feel like exactly what you said. I had needs in our marriage that were not being met but it never occurred to me to augment our marriage with another person. He brought in an intruder and I'm soooooo mad at him for doing so. We don't go to MC right now although I think we probably should. Unfortunately H changed insurance and it's not covered. And, the one we went to had a wife with her office across the hall. H is severely allergic to cigarette smoke and his wife puffed up a storm. Each session was met with 3-5 days of a sinus infection for H. So, we did get a recommendation to a new person but never followed through. Right now we're knee deep in expenses so it seems to have taken a back seat. We are trying really hard to communicate effectively, but any time he has anything even remotely negative to say, I think he's comparing me to OW. Maybe if she were this gorgeous icon I'd be able to see if for what it was...ego! But, he introduced this silly dumpy little waif who threatens me to no end! I thought I was a relatively confident person. And, I always KNEW in my gut that no matter what our struggles, neither of us would betray the other with another person. Well now, I was WRONG~ He's very sorry and very ready to move forward. But, I fell it's all been on his terms. When did it become about whether or not he was staying in the marriage? When did I give up the choice to decide if I wanted him to stay? I feel weak and desperate. Is this what it feels like to really love someone? You temporarily sacrifice yourself so that you're able to mend his mess? I think most of my issue (other than not being at the forgiveness stage yet) is my resentment. I feel like the lions share of work is mine. He still goes off to his job, he still gets his meals and laundry, he gets a doting wife waiting for his arrival and he doesn't ever have to wonder if someone else is waiting in the wings. How is that fair? I suppose I'm in a boo-hoo about me day. Maybe it's normal...I'm just soooo tired of the rollercoaster ride. It's like at Disney World when you go in that dark tunnel on the roller coaster. You know a dip is coming, but you can't anticipate it exactly. It's a total lack of control.

Believe me I understand your anguish. It's not fair to the BS. I remember telling the MC I was the glue that held everything together and I didn't want to do it anymore. I really wanted to divorce my husband. In MC we worked on the book Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil. The first three chapters were really good. We also came to this site at the same time and read the articles and did some of the questionnaires. The question to you Fiori is do you want to be right or do you want to recover? If you want to be right you're going to continue punishing your husband. Reality - relationships are hard. My husband and I brought issues from our upbringing into our marriage. You can't help that after spending most of your first 20 years with parents molding you. We had serious issues with communicating. Our top needs were affection, conversation and time together - none of which we were meeting. I feel like you - sometimes I think my husband got to bake his cake and eat it too. I feel for you about the dumpy red head - I got a kick out your post on the subject. I don't know what the OW looks like and I prefer not to know. I know she went to the gym but had a slew of problems. My husband realizes now he would have gotten into a mess. He also reminds me that it was not a PA and that I should be thankful because I could have gotten a disease. I remind him PA or EA - it's the same to me. Is your husband working with the tools on this site? I use to email my husband links and he really liked this site.

Fiori, I think this hits the nail on the head. It may not seem like you are trying to decide between these two things, but I think GA is right. Your H can only tell you he was wrong so many times. It won't change the outcome. And while he might be able to do more for the recovery, he may not know what it is he should do. Have you talked about a specific list of things that HE could do to help you recover?

Your anger is feeding your resentment and until you figure out how to let go of that part, I don't think you CAN get beyond that and into a successful recovery. I'm not much for behaviorism, but sometimes I think it is true that emotions follow actions. If you are able to shelf your resentment for awhile (knowing that you still own it) and work on the good stuff, maybe when you go back to the resentment, you'll find it has diminished.

It's not fair that you have to do most of the work, but it seems like that is the way it goes in the beginning. I think that if you can focus on the idea that your work is for the both of you and that H will have to do his share along the line too, maybe you can get past the resentment of it all. I know that I have had to really fight that bug.

It doesn't matter that it was "just an EA." It was the lying and betrayal that hurt me...not the fact that he f*cked her...that is just another manifestation of the betrayal. Yes, you can be glad that there isn't that added dimension, but it doesn't make your experience less painful.

I don't agree with your H that you two should put this aside while you deal with other things first. You may have to deal with this LESS, but you can still put those EPs in place and work hard on meeting each others ENs without taking time away from the other concerns. I fought through this one with H a lot. In the end, I told him that we needed to deal with the A NOW or there wouldn't be much of a M to fight for.

Call me if you want to vent. I never know when you are without little ears...

HTM

I want to add another thought. Some women tend to subconciously keep score. "Plus" for everything we do and "Minus for everything the husband doesn't do. This scoreboarding fuels and builds resentment over time.

GA,
If I may...how long did your husband's EA last? Was there a sustained period of lying to you? My H worked with OW. So, there were so many times that they spent hours together at work and then he would have to "stay for a meeting" and now I realize she was in the meetings too. Do I think they were really meetings...yes I do because that is the nature of his job. But, I think it became easier for him to stay at work knowing his comrade was there. I can recall soooo many times that he lied to me and chose to be 'faithful' to her feelings over mine. I suppose that is all part of the fog.

So, I believe you hit the nail on the head too. I do want to be right. And, I want him to grovel. That's mean and I realize that when I say it, but I need him to jump. I need him to see that he has to do whatever it takes to make me feel like I'm not standing on the edge of a cliff. Why won't he take initiative? Yup, he's never been like that pre EA, but isn't the whole point of recovery to chage what got you here in the first place? Does that mean you change personality traits? He's a sucky communicator, but that's the title I received so he could rationalize how "great" he and OW got along. Heck, I meet men all the time who I can easily communicate with...that doesn't mean I want to replace H. I feel like I've reached a fork in the road. I have to let him off the hook in order to pattern forward. Am I ready for that yet? If I do, does he then diminish the importance of meeting MY needs? H does not come to this site. He has, though, read several of my postings. When something really important is said i cut/paste them and give them to him at night for him to read. This is something he does very willingly and is glad for someone elses input. I think his biggest hurdle is that he feels like the Wayward is portrayed as a horrible person. He really feels like he got into a situation that took on a life of its own (admittedly by his own actions) and is NOT a horrible person. He feels like a good guy that made a bad choice. But is he? Or is he simply lazy and egotistical? It's a toss up. I think it's much easier to replace what appears cracked than to fix what you already have. It's funny, he's really handy and would NEVER throw anything away that he did not at least try to fix. I always tell him I'm tired of living in a 'gerri-rigged' world. But, when it came to our marriage he simply bailed.
I think I'm simply overwhelmed right now. I hate having these men in my house. The oven hood is wrong and my contractor is telling me "Oh well...." Great!!! MEN!!! And, the only way to fix it is either become a raving lunatic or flirt! I have no energy for one and no interest in the other.

What HTM said above is where I find myself often. It takes hard work to get through that resentment. I would encourage you to work on that part of the healing because you could be sabotaging your end results. I say that out of both sides of my mouth because I need to hear it as well. There are days when I'm done and ready to move on too.

Write your own Personal Recovery plan. This EA does not define who you are, you are better than this bad situation that happened. Time will heal and you can help that process.

What will you do for YOU today?

I just had a moment of clarity. And, it's mean. I think that I am not letting go of my resentment and anger because deep down inside, I feel like if I continue to hurt, he hurts too! I want/need for him to feel and crappy as I do. I have to know that on some level he's miserable. Trust me, he's moved on. I mostly believe him when he says what's done is done and he's here which is where he wants to be. On clear days I believe this to be true. But, if I move on, who hurts him? I know...there's no niceness to this, but isn't it normal? I feel like the more I inflict on him the better I'll feel. Really, it's not working at all. Rationally I can see that. But, I feel like I have a sick NEED to make him hurt. Does anyone else do this or am I basically certifiable?

I'm sending you a great big hug across the country!

I don't think that letting go of the resentment means that you let your H off the hook at all. I think that it means you are willing to move forward with him.

I know that you WANT H to jump through hoops, but I don't know if that is realistic. In his own way, has he been helping the recovery? Is he checking in with you? Is he talking with you? Is he TRYING to meet your needs? Those may be the best hoops he can do. And you need to really be careful about punishment. I don't think that punishing HIM will help either one of you recover. In the end, you will feel guilty about it and he will feel alienated.

I really think that you two need to sit down with a third party and talk. I know money is tight, but you might be able to find a pastor who can do it for less. And then you need to make sure that you are having FUN together. You need to find the man that you married so that you can love him again. Limit your negative discussions to one hour a week...maybe one night that is designated as a check in. Then make sure that you are enjoying each other for the rest of the week.

I sometimes think that we write advice for our friends here so that WE can see the advice that we need to follow ourselves...

HTM