Hello, my wife and I are recently seperated. Here is some background. We are a young couple, we have a 1 year old son and I have a 5 year old daughter. We have been married for 2 years and together for 6. I have always had an anger control problem, and over the last 6 months, it has been pretty rough. I have never hit her, but I would come home from work, and the smallest thing would set me off. I would yell, throw things, and call her names and what not. I went to counseling and we thought I was better, so we both decided I didn't need to go anymore, bad decision. Things started again. Well, 3 weeks ago she left me. Things have been off and on. She moved in with her parents. I am going to move out next week so her and my son can have the house. She has been telling me there is still hope, but that we must go to individual counseling before we can work on "us". Thats fine with me, but I get upset and call her and get emotional. No anger has come out the past 3 weeks untill last night. She has never cheated on me, but last night I felt really wierd. She was text messaging me and things were going great. She told me that she was at a bar/restaurant near our home. Dumb old me got in the car and went over there. I guess I was trying to find an answer for her leaving, other than my anger. She was there with her female friend, but when I walked in, I saw a guy sitting at the table. It got the best of me and I walked to the table and said "who is this" and told him "do you know this is my wife". After those words left my mouth, I knew nothing was going on. She explained he was a friend and client at where she works. His friends were at another table and he went back and sat with them. She left angry and went to her parents house. Once again, dumb me went there. She told me my apologies don't mean anything anymore, and that we are completely through and that she is getting a legal separation today. After begging and pleading, I left. My friends called her and she told them that I must fix myself and she must do the same before anything is to be done between us. But, she still was telling me that I blew my last chance. My friend told her that she really put the fear of god in me and that I would back off and fix myself but for her to please wait on anything legal to give me time to work through this. She said it wasn't the time for him to be asking for her not to legal separate, that I screwed up worse than I know. I know I did. I sent her an email this morning, just telling her that I want to really fix this, even though I have said it a million times, and keep screwing it up. What do I do now? Have I really screwed it up? Is there any hope of fixing this?

Duke, I don't honestly know if you can save the marriage.

I do know there is hope for you.

You do realize that your behavior is scary, that while you haven't physically hurt her, that all the signs are there that you would in the future.

You should count yourself lucky if all she does is file for legal separation. Many people in her situation would file for a restraining order. If she were here, posting, I'd probably suggest if if she were the slightest bit afraid. The fact that you tracked her down at the restaurant, and then followed her to her parents's house is scary.

You need to start protecting her from YOURSELF. I would suggest you put paramaters in place to make sure this never happens again. EVER. The most dangerous time for a victim of abuse is when he or she leaves or is preping to leave. You can also read this as being the most dangerous time for YOU, the abuser. If you become physical, there could be serious long-term conseqences including divorce, jail, a record, loss of custody, on and on. And, don't even tell yourself "I'd never..." because you have very limited control over your anger right now. You have proven untrustworthy in controlling your anger so far.

The reason most people don't become abusive is because they don't put themselves in those situations. They don't go to the restuarant. They know when to walk away, leave the room, leave the house, throw the cell away before they say or do something they'll regret. You haven't mastered that skill yet. So, you need to be doubly sure not to get anywhere near those situations.

Some rules you can make for yourself is that you'll only communicate with her via email or letters. You'll allow at least 24 hours before responding to a situation that makes you mad. You will avoid being in her presence unless in the company of the counselor. You won't go into her space, this means her place of work and her home. You won't call her on the phone or do drive by's to check up on her.

Once you have a proven track record of taking care of her by not endangering her with your behavior, then, you can start to rebuild.

Read the site's basic concepts, focusing on the LOVEBUSTERS section. Buy the book. Read and reread the section on Angry Outbursts. Nothing you do will make a difference if you continue to have angry outbursts. You cannot have even another one.

The good news is that if you stop the LBs, demonstrate repeatedly that you are willing to protect her from yourself, and you are PATIENT in waiting for results, you may be able to save the relationship.

Also, did you make a mistake on the timing or did you have an affair that produced a child by another woman while you were dating your wife?

Thank you for your time. We actually started "talking" when my last ex was almost full term with my daughter. My daughters mother cheated on me while I was in the Army and left on her own. I have never had an affair. At this point, I don't ever want another woman but my wife. She emailed me this morning about me seeing my son before they go on their family vacation at the beach next week. I told her I would love to see him. I also told her how I know I messed up big time, and that I can't be around her for awhile so that I won't do anything else. She told me that she is done, last night was my last chance, then she said maybe a long time from now we could fix it, but she is done with me. How confusing is that? I understand where she is coming from. I let the worst come out in me. Its really hard letting go, but I know I have to. I have an anger control workbook that I completely forgot all I have learned in the past 3 weeks. I am going to get back into that immediately. My first counseling appt. is Saturday at noon. I am definitely going to go to that and open myself up as much as I can. I can't believe I let myself do this. It is all my fault and I keep pushing her away. Her mother talks to me about this. We talked today. She said to drop all contact with her unless my wife starts the contact. She said not to listen to her right now because she is angry and embarrassed about what I did. She told me not to give up hope and that my wife is still going to go to counseling. My wifes mother also wants me to call her after I go to my meeting Saturday. I hope all of this helps, not only for my marriage, but for me and my kids. I have grown into a monster and I can't stand it anymore.

Oh, Duke, I'm so proud of you! I was afraid you'd come back and be all defensive, blame her, rationalize the terrible way you've behaved. Instead, you manned up. That's awesome.

It's great news you have an ally in your mother-in-law. Make sure you honor that relationship.

Your wife's response isn't confusing once you accept that she's torn. She wants to be married to the man she knows you can be, but she's scared to be married to the other man she knows you can be. Being torn is good news for you. You just need to prove repeatedly in very small baby steps that you can be trusted even when you are hurting emotionally or are afraid.

Probably you already know why I chose those two emotions rather than anger. But, for anyone reading this who doesn't know, here goes. Anger is a secondary emotion. One feels anger because one feels hurt or afraid or confused or all three. Anger is not bad any more than happy or sad are bad. Anger can be constructive in providing the motivation and inspiration and power to change the situation. For example, anger is important in "fight or flight" scenarios.

But, over-powering anger that's used to control a loved one is wrong and bad. See Angry Outbursts.

Sorry about the first one's infidelity. That can cause all kinds of "triggers." For example, the man in the restaurant may not have been about your wife per se, but may have been more a reaction because of previous experience with someone who was unfaithful. Recognizing triggers is important. Eventually, they lose their power.

Thanks for your service in the Army. We here on the home front really do appreciate everything soldiers and sailors do and have done.

PS: No chance you have any symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?

Thats a negative to the PTSD. I did grow up in an affair ridden, abusive home. My father was severely physically abused and then abused everyone around him. Up to the point of holding a loaded gun to my mothers head. My mother has had countless affairs that I have witnessed, including the sexual acts of the affair, with my own eyes. Well, I backed off today so far. She just texted me about seeing my son tonight. That is all she said. I told her to stop from the further pain I am causing, that she can only come around when she has someone with her and I will not be contacting her, that she must do it. I am still getting a sense of hostility from here. But, I encouraged her to go out and have fun tonight, no questions asked, while I keep the kids. No response. Hopefully I can keep this small progress up and that she will see it after the emotions settle. Thank you so much for your help through this, even though I am the bad guy.

Yeah, you are the bad guy. But, you also wanna be the good guy.

All I can say about your FOO (family of origen) is OMG. That is truly dysfunction. And, I'm sure you can see how you are setting up to repeat the pattern. No wonder you totally jumped the gun and assumed the gentleman there was your wife's consort. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but does explain it.

I wonder how you learn to be a good husband when your primary example was just short of insane? No offense. I know you love your dad, but not a good role model at all. And Lord knows, the stuff on TV either shows completely macho Rambos or ineffective dimwits when it shows straight men at all.

Another thought I had. Maybe you can get more than one session a week. Sort of triage this anger stuff, and start to reprocess the FOO issues. Don't even start to tell me you've dealt with them and they are in the past, or "It is what it is."

We humans unfortunately have a habit of reliving our childhood relationships with our parents through our adult romantic relationships. That's why daughters of alcoholics marry alcoholics, because this time, they might final be good enough to "fix" the alcoholic or worthy enough for the alcoholic to stop drinking. That's why people who have been abused either pick abusers or become abusers. I did it myself. I married someone who outwardly was as different from my dad as you could get, but as far as person relationships, he was pretty much the same--bone selfish to the extreme and manipulative.

Okay, you have the kids. What are your plans? You need a game plan on keeping yourself so busy you can't obsess about her out and about. And if you do find yourself starting to go down that path, remind yourself she's not your mother.

I have the kids tonight, we are gonna just play and what not. Tomorrow she might let me get my son for a little before they leave for the beach, but if not, my daughter will be here with me. Saturday is my first appt. and then my friends birthday the rest of the day. Sunday is what I am worried about, no kids, no her. Just me in this empty house. She knows my problems that cause my anger are from my family. I haven't spoken to my father in years. All my mother does is tell me she is cheating and will never come back. My wife knows it, because my mother said it in the past, she called my mother last night and told her to keep out of it and quit brainwashing me, along with other choice words. I am actually glad she did, to me it shows that she somewhat understands part of my problems, and I hope that shows that she still cares and wants me to fix me so we can fix us. This really sucks. I went to get the kids and passed her on the highway. I about broke down. I am glad my son was already with me.

I think your wife still cares. Just keep in mind you've got two strikes against you right now.

Okay, so we need a plan for Sunday. The MB web site is really slow on weekends, so there isn't a lot of support here. Your mother is out of the question.

Have you been to church recently? Church eats up at least 2 hours, when you count getting ready, getting there, the service, and the after math. Plus, church is a good place to reconnect spiritually or just rest your mind.

After that, either set something with your friends, or start a home project that can be finished before you have to move out.

Do you exercise? Exercise has been proven as effective as anti-depressents at treating depression. It's probably also a good way to work off anxiety.

Oh, about the counseling... I had this thought yesterday but forgot to write it down. Therapy is hard work. Usually you come out feeling worse than you go in. That's because of the tough issues. Don't give up. And when stuff starts to get better, keep going for a while and taper off. I never had anger issues, I just had depression off and on. Spent more time in the psychiatrist's office than I care to admit.

I know you're in a lot of pain right now. But, the up side is pain motivates us to grow and change. You're going to come through this and be a better person because of it. Your children will bless you because what you do with this experience is going to make you a better father by 100 fold.

Here's something to think about when you have your son. You need be the man you want him to grow up into. He's going to be watching you, even though he can't talk yet. He's watching your expressions, listening to your voice tone and how you interact. When you're with your daughter, think about how she's likely to grow up and marry a man just like dad, even when she thinks she's not. Be the kind of man you want her to grow up and marry.

Have a good day.

I might go to church. I went the last 2 Sundays to my wifes church. That was another one of her complaints, that I never went to chruch with her. So, I have been going every Sunday since she left. She has me sit beside her and invites me to lunch afterwards, but that was before this last incident. She will be at the beach this Sunday anyways. No calls or messages from her last night. I don't know what to think, she atleast asks once a night about how our son is doing, but not last night. Well, I told her I was backing off, so I guess I really need to for now, hopefully that might restore a little trust. Thanks again, I will keep you posted.

Two things I wanted to comment on. One was an agreement with GG about your children are watching you. Although there is quite a bit more that I agree with GG I just want to state what I have observed in my own experience. I have 3 and they are youngins. The older two are the only ones I can talk to on the phone and they are with their Dad this week. It has been a very difficult week without them around but the phone calls have been getting worse. I believe part of that is my fault. I can explain that later if you care to here it. Anyway, my middle one last night sounded like he was really going to talk to me this time and like he wanted to. It was noisy so he asked everyone to be quiet so he could talk to his mom then when they didn't he went into another room. When he finally sat down to talk he said, "I'm sick of what you're saying." He said it a couple of times even when I was just asking him what I said or if I did or said something the day before that made him mad. He would tell me no but again repeat that he was sick of what I was saying and then finally said, "I'm sick of your crap!" My Ex also has an anger issue and would say those things to the children before we D'd and would say those things to me on voice mail and emails. So, it was like listening to them. On top of that both of the 2 older ones would come home from being with him in the beginning, and they have done it 1 - 2 times since, calling me B_____!, stupid, or mean mommy. Their D was called a Loser once but the only thing I can think of when they heard me saying it was with some friends that have young teenagers and they do this little loser hand thing and it had nothing to do with their Dad it was like one of those fad things they do at that age. However, their Dad has said that again when he gets angry with them or others. So, what I am getting at is the children are watching their parents and will pick up quite a bit from them in how they handle situations too.

The other thing was a comment. You might also find a church that you feel comfortable with to help you find peace that you are looking. I love the church that I attend even though I still feel a lack of comfort in anything I do. I guess that comes with healing over time.

I do want to add one other thing though. It truly sounds like you are a man willing to take responsibility for your actions and you recognize them. I wish that my Ex was that way and would have taken responsibility for them before he decided to get the D and sounds like pursue the OW. With your actions in mind. I urge you to continue on your path to keep your distance work on you. I know I was not perfect in my marriage nor going through the D and I still am not. I have a lot to work on and reading these posts have been an eye opener of the things that I have done wrong and things that I want to change. Even though there is something in my heart that feels very strongly that the D was not right and that Ex and I should still be together working things out, I think I pushed to far and ruined all my chances. I did a few of the same things you did, w/o the anger. For you, you still have a great deal of hope. Just keep up the willingness to change not for her but for you, your children and her. You cannot help her or your children if you cannot help yourself first.

abenat4

Thanks for the help abenat4. I really appreciate anything that anyone can offer. My kids bring so much joy to me, they are the only thing keeping me going right now. My son, when I do see him, is so happy. We played and played all last night. My daughter is at the age (5) that she knows somewhat of what is going on. This morning she told me she was going to miss her brother, and that she really missed my wife. I didn't know what to say. All I could say to her, is that "I miss them too, but Daddy is here and we are gonna have a lot of fun together". It broke my heart. Well, so far today, she hasn't contacted me at all. I talked to my mother in law this morning. She said all that was said last night was my wife said she felt good that she got some rest from me calling and messaging her. Should I feel good or bad about that? I feel good that I didn't hurt her yesterday, but I feel bad that she has no desire to contact me. I will try to keep chugging along.

Patience, Duke.

You need to give her space right now. That's how you're going to show her that you love her, and that she didn't marry some psycho stalker dude. You need to give her space and time to remember the good times. You need to create good time when SHE gives you the opportunity, and I think she will in the coming weeks.

Look, you were in the army. You know how to keep focused and be patient. From what I hear there is a lot of waiting in the armed services. You're waiting, and preparing for the opportunity that will come your way.

Just take it one day at a time.

Well, she just emailed me a few mins. ago on her own. This is copy and pasted of all that she wrote:

Hope Matthew was good for you last night. I think I'm leaving very shortly after I get off work so I'm just going to take care of getting Matthew. He will miss you and I will call you on the way back and send you pics of him while I'm there.


And that is all. How should I or should I even respond?

I didn't respond yet and she sent this:

Please let me know when you get that e-mail.



I will try to wait and collect my thoughts. Any advice on a response would be great!

ok the first email she sent was at 1249 the second was at 1256. I waited to respond, then she sent me a text message at 1:11 asking if I got the emails. So, then I had to respond to her. I sent her an email back saying "ok. thanks. You guys have a safe and fun trip". Atleast she is acknowledging me as a father now. Should I read into how impatient she was for a response? To me that lit up my eyes and thought there might be hope after all.

Well, she sent me one back that said "thanks. And I hope your counseling goes well tomorrow." I sent her a last one back that told her thanks for her thoughtfulness and support, and that for her to let me know if they need anything. Sorry I keep writing on here, it is a slow day at work and all of this is still fresh. There is another thing I didn't mention that I can't quit thinking about. Over the past 3 weeks, I have checked her voicemail a few times, and her passcode has been the same for years even though I swear this is the first time I checked her voicemails without her asking me to. I never found anything. About 4 days ago, I decided to check it again, now her passcode has changed?!! Should I let this go? I know I definitely can't check it anymore or bring this up to her, but is that a sign of something?

Yeah, it's a sign she doesn't trust you not to show up at her next evening out with friends. I don't blame her.

That said, your FOO is the elephant in the room. Nothing will get better until you've been to consistent, long-term counseling for that. I'm talking weekly for at least 6-12 months. You have a LOT of work to do to get that demon out of you.

From her perspective, your problem is such a big one that if I were her I wouldn't trust you to live with you again for at least a year of consistent counseling, and then some marriage counseling with both of you. I have a book called Emotional Alchemy that someone here recommended. I think it would help you; talks about how you react from learned childhood behaviors, and how to go about stopping that unconscious reaction and learning a new healthy one.

Even if she divorces you, you always have a chance of getting back together. The one key here is to become consistent. Consistently well-behaved, considerate, thoughtful, helpful, pleasant, moral, giving. From this day forward. Every day. Make yourself a little phrase that encapsulates that, and every morning when you look in the mirror, repeat it to yourself (it really works!).

Finally, back off from thinking about what she's doing every day. It is now officially none of your business. Even if she met some guy down the road, it doesn't mean her love for you has disappeared and she's forgotten you. More likely it means she's just getting on with life while waiting for and hoping that you're getting your act together so you can be a family again. So back off.

Duke, don't read too much into her repeated emails. She does care, but she can't trust you. This is a bit of a rollercoast ride for you, so just realize that she's confused now.

And, yes, Cat's right about the take-away message of your wife changing her passcode. She's worried you're going to check her voice mail, misinterpret a message from a client, and blow the business relationship she has with the client.

Most of the time, people here are willing to suggest you snoop to make sure there's no affair. You have been snooping. Your wife is not having an affair. If you continue to act as if she had violated your trust, you will lose her for sure.

If you continue snooping, you will just be feeding the cycle of suspicion and verbal abuse you've been in.

Plus, let me share this. When spouse's split up, they are usually too emotionally exhuasted and tied to the mess of the marital relationship to even think of someone else.

That makes a lot of sense hearing someone say it other than her. She has told me several times, that our son is her main focus and that she has no interest in being with anybody. I am backing off though, don't worry. I haven't initiated any of the contact since this last episode has happened. I have just been responding to her. I don't know why I kept snooping. Even if I found something out, it wouldn't help anything. Not only that, but if she was with other guys and eventually wanted me back, I would take her back in a second. No questions asked