Ok, I will reply over here.

Since you are the wayward spouse (the one who cheated), you have a responsibility to nurse the betrayed spouse (your wife) back to health.

She is wounded.

You can't really be mad because things are rough and you're still arguing and not getting your needs met when you just stabbed her.

Put your ego aside and spend significant time meeting her EN (unselfishly, unconditionally, etc.)

See if that makes a difference.

You already admitted that you came into the marriage with doubt. So she's been living under that black cloud for awhile now. It's time for you to move both of you out of the clouds and into Recovery.

Take the lead.

LIO,

Let's see if I got this straight...

You were once a recovering alcoholic and in AA for 7 years. But you're not sober anymore. You've only driven drunk 3 times this year. And now you go to bars and play cards and drink orange juice, except on Thursdays, when you have two drinks. And this doesn't impair your thinking at all. You are able to wake up bright eyed and bushy tailed, facing your job with enthusiasm. Except however, when your wife yells at you. And then you wind up hanging out with your friends again, some male and some female, who are very flirtatious with you because you have such a gift for music and conversation. Of course, you don't return those types of comments, since your married. Unless of course, you've had too much to drink.

Hmm...

But then there's the nights that you play in the bars that wouldn't be fit for your wife to even be in. Yet you get offended when she doesn't come hear you play. And then you blame her for forcing you to be drunk and f#@king another woman.

Hmm...

But wait a minute. There are the six times a week that you go work out all on your own because you deserve to. You work so hard and she just doesn't understand that you need to unwind...and then you may just need to go hang out at the bar with your friends, too, because at least they understand you.

Hmm...

And of course, it was really necessary to start swinging. It's not cheating...of course, since she agreed. And since she doesn't want to play anymore and you still do, you're well within your rights to continue this. And of course, it her fault and she is just trying to control you. You're just a puppet on a string, not knowing which way to go...poor me, poor me. Pour me another drink.

Hmm...

But you are gifted in music. You just picked up your instrument one day and played like Beethoven. Didn't require years of practice and dedication. It's just a gift that you get to choose how to use since you gave it to yourself. And of course, you deserve it.

Hmm...

But you're right, you pray to God every morning and ask for direction. God tells you to stop at the dojo and work out, stop at the bar and hang out, play a gig or two and jam out, pick up another woman (OW) and check out. Sounds like a pretty God-fearing man to me.

Hmm...

But wait a minute, you've spent hours and hours every week since you've first been married, investing in making your marriage a strong healthy, loving, monogomous marriage that even God would be proud of. Right?

I guess I'm just kinda naive and don't understand.

So are you ready to put the plug in the jug and get to an AA meeting and stop drinking immediately? If it's not a problem for you to stop, then do it now. Otherwise, I stick by my advice to your wife that she needs to run like he11.

You are so judgmental!! You just don't understand me! Poor me, poor me, pour me a drink.....

I guess, I didn't clearify this. The one I had doubt about at the alter, was my ex wife. I had no doubt at the alter with BM, I was elated.

First off, I was sober for 14 years, attending meeting for 7. Read this carefully, you might learn something. I go out on Thursday nights. I have a two beers, talk, laugh with friends, leave and come home to my wife. There have been occassions when I stayed out longer. 98 times out of a 100. I come home to see and be with my wife. I have made the mistake of drinking to much and getting behind the wheel. I can admit that, its wrong.

ugh!

There is not one bar, I have played in, that my wife could not have shown up at. She didn't force me to drink, nobody can. I do that on my own, my decision. Maybe you were not listening when at a lead or closed meeting, when they said, nobody can make you drink, can pour it down your throat.

ugh!

I want a good healthy marriage, nothing else, dont read between the lines.

ugh!

I play drums for a long time, you, dont need to know how long and how dare you even critize me for something I love doing. Seems to me you spend you time on here. Ooo a gift from God.

ugh!

The God subject, not touching, I'll let him deal with what ever you are! I have had awesome sponsors when I was in AA. They shot from the hip, from experience. Way much better then what you are telling me.

ugh!

We are working on our marriage, We are working together, Im looking at myself and what I need to do, and certainly dont want or need your advise. That is why I have an appt to see a behavior Doctor, not wanna be dr. tst

I can't meet her EN's when I dont know what they are. We haven't filled out that part of the survey. Trust me, I want to. I want to be the man of her dreams. I want her to know and feel and be appreciated everyday. I want her to feel my love for her. I know I have a long way to go, Im willing.

Trying a little social drinking? How does that work exactly?

Funny, I have been going to AA for 23 years and had my last drink on April 27, 1985, I don't EVER REMEMBER hearing that we could lead a sober life going out and drinking a "little."

WHAT STEP IS THAT EXACTLY? Was that the 13th step?

How many "couple of drinks" did you have when you went drunk driving?

LIO, are you a low bottom drunk? Are you the kind of fella that has to go to prison and lose everything to get it?

WOW! Really awesome sponsors, huh. So awesome that you now drink whenever you feel like it.

ugh!





Will he help you behave????





OK, on a more serious note...
If you didn't come here to get help from those who have recovered their marriages...

why did you come here?

Are you willing to stop drinking and stop going to bars because, first of all, you are an alcoholic, and secondly, this behavior hurts your wife. Are you willing to do this, or not?

Next, are you willing to write a no contact letter to the OW that your wife reads, approves and mails herself?

Are you willing to spend at least 15 hours minimum per week with your wife meeting each other's EN's (emotional needs)?

Are you willing to give up all activities that exclude your wife or that she is not enthusiastic about doing with you?

These are the beginning steps that I had to take and that Dr. Harley recommends to rebuild a marriage after such a brutal blow as infidelity.

Are these steps you are willing to take to demonstrate to your wife your commitment to rebuilding your marriage?

There's a lot more after you do these first steps.

Admitting you did something wrong is pretty futile if you don't STOP DOING IT, isnt' it? Talk is cheap, talk is cheap...

Mistake? It wasn't a mistake at all. You intended to get drunk, you intended to drive drunk. You probably tell people you are a "good drunk driver" just like every other stupid alcoholic I know.

You purposely married someone who is gullible about alcoholism so you could get away with this nonsense, didn't you? Well, it is so bad now, after only 3 years, that you can't even fool her anymore. And just wait until she gets to Alanon.


You think God gave you that gift so you could squander it in a stinking bar getting pig drunk, neglecting his wife, wh*ring around and getting thrown in jail for drunk driving? I fear you are praying to the wrong God if you believe that self serving, insane delusion. You are the one who wants to destroy himself and everything good in his life - NOT GOD.

Don't use GOD as an excuse for your destructive, evil behavior. OWN it like a MAN, a foreign concept to every alcoholic.

LIO

I just want add something to what I feel-IMO and personal experience-to your attitude about drinking and driving. You admit you drank too much a few times and got behind the wheel and it's wrong. It is much more than that.

How many times did you "have a couple" but felt like you were okay to drive?

19 years ago next month, my friend Michelle and I were taking an early evening walk, because it was August and the sun was still high in the sky. She had just returned from finishing school and was spending time with our family.

We turned the corner about one half block from my house and started walking a wide gravel path that many kids took to two local school-one public and one private.

A woman with teen-agers had been drinking "a couple" of beers at her company softball game. She made the "wrong" choice. She thought she was okay to drive.

Her "wrong" choice and Michelle's life met that day and Michelle's life ended because of that choice.

I will forever have the memory of her body being thrown into a telephone pole in my mind. I will forever have the memory of the neighbor whose door I pounded on standing with me as we waited for the paramedics to get there.

I will always remember Michelle's ragged breathing as we waited for what seemed like forever.

I will forever remember that it took the medics a long time to leave. Because of my own life experience, I know this meant that it was hard to stabilize her.

I will forever remember someone handing me her shoe. She had been
knocked right out of them.

I will always have fear when I am walking near cars or riding my bike and they come too close.

I had panic attacks when my kids were learning to drive. I couldn't sit in the car with them driving. My counselor told me that it was because of PTSD and the thought of possibly losing one of my kids to a drunk driver makes me panic.

I will always live with the consequences of someone else's "wrong" choice.

So will the woman who killed her. And her family.

And Michelle's family.

I really hope you don't think that it's just "wrong." It's a life or death choice. And you don't get to choose whose death it is.

BTW, she didn't think she had too much. She told the investigator that she had only had "a couple" of beers.

Her blood alcohol content was .13.

This is why it is a public service to call the police on drunk drivers and have them tossed in jail. Both the drunk and the public benefit from this. You could be preventing someones death and doing the drunk a BIG FAVOR. AA is full of recovering alcoholics who are GRATEFUL that some caring person had them tossed in jail before they murdered someone with their car. Jail is a great WAKE UP for alcoholics!

One of my sponsors in AA had backed over a 18 month baby girl, while drunk, and killed her. I cannot even fathom the guilt she felt inside for the last 25 years of her life. [she is deceased] She killed a baby and ruined her life.

WOW! Really awesome sponsors, huh. So awesome that you now drink whenever you feel like it.







TST, it was my choice not to go to meeting, not theirs. You should know better. Guess not!

Ok, all...

One, I have been very angry in my responses. Was thinking about putting an apology for my words, but then thought, wait. Would they do that to me? Hence, no apology.

Im done, letting you get in my head and making me angry. Say what you want, no longer am I letting you enter my head and getting me fired up. I am no longer allowing you that energy. I will put that energy and effort, where it needs to be, here at home.

In my previsous marriage, I entered and left sober. Alcohol is not the only thing that distroys marriages. But you all are on this high that this is why things have gone south. Maybe, just maybe, there are things I need to work on besides alcohol. And just a thought, I know from experience, that if you dont give yourself completely to A.A. its not gonna work. I will tell you why I stopped going to meetings. I didnt sponsor, I had, but wasn't, I went to meetings, sat there, and talked with my friends. I was taking up a seat, so I stopped. Are ya now happy. that I LET you know that. I know all your trying to do is pulling infomation from me. I will chose what you know.

Furthermore, I could calmed that I had years and years of being recovered. I dont know your story. I have no idea who you are, why I should believe anything coming from you. Tell me your story, or stop posting to me. K.I.S.S.

Of course I know that! But, your comments about being able to drink again are so far out in left field, that a little sarcasm on my part may get your head back in the game again. Dunno?

So, how about my earlier questions?

Lost,
I'm sorry you feel this way. Believe me it is very difficult hearing something you don't want to hear. I didn't want hear from the marriage counselor that I contributed to my husband having an emotional affair and that I had to work on myself before I could work on relationship with my H. You seem to contradict what you say. You want to do what is necessary but you avoid all advice.

I grew up in an alcoholic family and I thought all families were like mine and that it was normal behaviors in my house. In my adulthood I learned it is not normal behavior and I had to become informed to make sure my son or daughter don't become alcoholics. I would be mortified if I knew my son got into a car intoxicated (he is sixteen and drives now).

My point is you have to work on yourself before you can work on fixing your relationship with your W. You may like Dr. Phil's Life Strategies or research and find what will work for you. If you have a mentor at work - find at mentor at life! Be proactive in making sure you don't repeat your behaviors that cause you problems in your life.

You can read about me on my wife's thread and all the he11 she went through trying to save our marriage. My wife's user name is SexyMamaBear.

Here is a link.
Link to SMB's thread

Here is a link to mine.
Link to tst's thread


People here have nothing to hide and everything to gain by being open and honest.

lost knows what he needs to do... Until he does that, I won't waste my time on him. I will go help his wife protect herself from him.

[/quote]

You can read about me on my wife's thread and all the he11 she went through trying to save our marriage. My wife's user name is SexyMamaBear.

People here have nothing to hide and everything to gain by being open and honest. [/quote]

Tst, thank you for sharing. As I said, I will let you know, what needs to be known, what Im willing to share at the time. I know, Im selfish. I know I have work to do, and that is why Im seeing a specialist in behavior. If there was a way to speak only to you, now that you have shown me, from your experience, you do know what Im going thru.

BM and I, spent the night talking last night. I didn't go out with my friends, I spent it with my wife. I didn't go out drinking, in fact I spilled out over 50 dollars of alcohol down the drain. We talked, relaxing music in the background. I did take the day off. After a week of stress, battling everynight, I was not mentally able to do my job. I have seen it starting to affect my performance. Having a job that replenishes the days off, I can afford to do that. BM was happy, I did. Thats all that matters to me. BM and I have spent most of the day. Im still looking at myself.

I understand where you are coming from. I know you mean good. I have toss around the thought, maybe I need to look into my drinking. I have people who I work with that have many quality years in recovery. And he is who I will be talking to. Step by step, we'll get thru this.

We have discuss, possibly, talking to the Dr. here. Who can afford $2g's with gas at $4-5 dollars a gallon.

Again, thank you