I have a few questions on some little things that are bothering me that I would like some opinions on.

WW Myspace page. It is practically a shrine to OM with a few of her old school friends mixed in. I mentioned this and she keeps saying she is going to delete it and she doesn't have time to keep it up. It is set to private and I can't access it anymore. She changed the pw about a couple of weeks ago so that I can't access it either. I had obtained the pw a couple of months ago and that's how I found out a lot of things. She also has an email address tied to this that I found a few things on too. I have no access to this either. I keep telling her not to delete it if she wants to keep up with her old HS friends, but just become transparent about it. No action from her so far. Should I just demand it? I feel that I can better guage things if I mention it and she does it herself. Her inaction so far has me thinking negatively. I can look at OM's page if I want to, lol, but I haven't in weeks. Btw, all his friends are young girls he's met at bars. Either a nice cover to keep me at bay or delusional thinking on my WW part.

Her wedding ring. Yeah it's not big, but she hasn't worn it in over a year. I'm not wearing mine either(I broke my finger over a year ago and now it's very tight). I have taken the stance that I am not going to wear mine until she broaches the subject with me. It's really not a big deal to me, as my dad never wore one because of work and it never took anything away from my parents. But it must symbolically mean something to her. What that is and to what extent I don't know. Ever since she has been involved with OM, it's not been on. Only she can answer this, as to when she took it off I can't exactly remember the date. I'm not going to force her to wear it, but symbolically, what does it all mean, and am I using my experience to assume the wrong things.

Also, some of this feels like my own fog. Waffling over decisions that I should make instantly otherwise. Worrying over small things that I shouldn't be concerned with right now. It's very easy to spin your wheels or drive off the path and get stuck in the mud. I swore off all R talk this week, because it was just getting me nowhere. I think that surprised her. I am tired of hanging on every little touch or word. It makes it hard to function. A myspace page is just not very important in the overall scheme of things, but here I am spending time worrying over it.

On a good note, she was much more affectionate and loving towards me on wednesday night. Last night, not so much, but she had been looking at her myspace page and I attributed her physical distance to her looking at her OM shrine. She is rarely angry or emotional. She is more withdrawn and spaced out. I'm wondering what the next steps might be for me to look forward to from her withdrawal. ALso, does looking at photos and reading things from OM reset the withdrawal period just like actual contact does?

dude,

Seriously, EVERYTHING you've (and rain has) written for some time now just screams one thing ... run FAST AND FAR away from this train wreck. Take your son and make a new life for yourself away from the drama and DISRESPECT!!!

This woman is broken and likely irrepairable.

This is a computer at home? Install a keylogger on it. They're invisible.

However, I have to agree with MrRev. You really need to think long and hard cos from what I see, she is making no effort to meet any goals for the marriage.

IMO, the clock on withdrawal hasn't even started yet if she is still seeking him in some way. Even if it is "just" to look at her my space to see his picture.

Any sense of him must go - anything she can see, hear, smell - you name it.

She will never find the other side of withdrawal if she continues to get "peeks".

I don't know what the best way to solve it would be. For me, it would be a boundary. Delete the MySpace page COMPLETELY by a certain day. If it is not deleted, she goes (or you take your son and go).

She can choose to keep the MySpace page and you can choose not to live with someone who will disrespect you in that way.

He can still get to her through a MySpace page. She need not worry about her friends from HS right now. Her marriage and son are more important.

When you are rebuilt and she has earned your trust, then maybe it will be something you are agreeable to.

Extraordinary precautions must come from BOTH sides of the marriage.

Fox

Dude,

Please listen to Fox. Visual, audible, third-party contact IS contact. Please know that. Do what she advises and fast...so you guys can really get into recovery, get some relief, work on experiencing one another as a allies again, instead of this long time as enemies.

Pictures were huge for me...get rid of all of them. Visuals are like weapons to me.

LA

Dude,

The stuff you posted contain the things that you can set your boundaries with. Starting with the myspace and the photos. Yes, with her looking at the photos and things he has written prolongs the withdrawal period. It’s not much different from having contact. Technically she is still in contact, through the pics and writings, even though she is not talking to the OM.

She will need to get rid of that stuff in order for her to complete withdrawal. If she refuses, you can evaluate how well you have done your Plan A and make some decisions on what to do from there. A healthy separation many times depends on knowing that you’ve done everything possible to restore the M.

Don’t “demand” anything. Let her know how much this stuff affects you and ask her to give you the PW, open up her myspace or completely delete it. Request that she do it within a reasonable time (probably the next time she’s on the computer). Ask her to get rid of the pictures and papers from OM. And anything else that reminds her of him. Preferably burn or shred them and be there when they are destroyed.

Request for all of her PWs for all e-mail accounts. There should be no secrets between the two of you. She can have privacy but no secrets or deception.


Spot on.

Regarding the rings. Just like her wearing the ring is a symbol of her commitment to you it (believe it or not) may mean the same to her. What’s the issue (if it fits) about wearing your ring. It shows you are committed to the M. And you are right? At least right now.


Never make a decision when you’re emotional. That’s why a plan is so important. The plan helps you make instant decisions during emotional times. Without a plan it’s best to wait until you’re cooled down.


Good for you.


If the page is hidden from you it is important because it’s existence with out you being able to access it allows the A to thrive. It may not be thriving through the site, but you don’t know that and A exist is secrecy. So this is a big deal.


Did you tell her that you appreciated the attention? Reinforce anytime she meets an EN, no matter how small.


Changed to help keep you focused. Calling it the OM shrine, helps you hang on to any anger you may have.


If you are able to fill some of the withdrawal time with meeting her ENs then she will come out of it quicker.

Dude, you’re doing well. By going through this process, even if things don’t work out, then you can make whatever decisions you need to with your head up and no questions.

Take care and God bless.

S&C

Huh ... serial cheating, financial ruin, and an unwillingness to engage in any form of recovery/recommitment ... THIS woman is badly broken and will only bring misery to any man who tries to love her.

dude needs help and direction ... not false hope of some miracle transformation.

Seriously, we have all read about this story DIRECTLY from BOTH sides, and I can't find ANY redeeming quality in rain, nor do I see a reason for dude to subject himself to any more DISRESPECT.

Marriage Builders DOESN'T mean "marriage at all costs".

Then, lucky for Rain you are not married to her. I see your point MyRev, but just because a stranger doesn't see redeeming qualities in his wife, doesn't mean that Dude can't.

Even if her only redeeming quality is as the mother of his son. From what I see here, I think she is broken, too. A person being broken doesn't give us the right to abandon her.

Maybe she has never had the tools to do better before.

Hopefully, when we know better, we do better.

As long as Dude wants to try, I'll support him.

When he is done, I will support him in that too.

Fox

ETA: I have yet to see a wayward have redeeming qualities while they are active. By my book, rain is still active, still has contact with OM, even if not directly to him.

If she can take that step, maybe her other redeeming qualities will be seen.

See ... I think it does, especially when one is as broken for as long as rain has.

Rain is ALL ABOUT RAIN, and apparently always has been.

dude can't have much self-respect left, and to me as a fellow BH ... in a lot of cases, this one in particular, that's about all a BH has left, and now you all are suggesting that he just hang on to nothing but HOPE, while rain crushes the remainder of his self-respect before she leaves him as broken as she is.

I'm sorry, but that is just BAD advice.

Simply put, not all marriages are worth saving and not all WW's are worth having ... this is an excellent case in point.

MyRev,

I hope rain and Dude have you on ignore.

You have stated your opinion again.

Dude wants to work on the M, he's not asking you to work on yours. So if you have something that will help his M then offer it.


You are absolutely right. This is Marriage Builders, but it should not a place where spouse are told to give up if things are hard. If you are not up to task of helping Dude save his M, that's ok. But please allow that that are, the chance to help him and rain.

Thank you.

S&C

I think your post is great for rain and dude to both see.

Rain needs to realize there are men that would not put up with her and she should count herself as darn lucky that Dude is still willing.

Dude needs to see it to know that he doesn't HAVE to stay, that many would not. His choice to stay needs to give him some POWER not convey meekness.

It will be hard and it takes a STRONG man to stick by someone when they are dealing with so many issues.

I don't think marriage is a good idea at all costs.

If Dude is willing to pay the cost that HIS marriage is going to require, I say the choice is his.

I say that he should hang on to more than HOPE. Don't hang is hat on ONLY that, but don't lose hope either.

I think he needs to determine his boundaries. What will he and what won't he be subject to?

Once the boundaries are set, let them be known, and then make decisions based on them.

Hope won't fix this, but it won't harm it either if there are ACTIONS taken.

Fox

Fox,

That was very well said, and I concur.

On the flip side, I couldn't DISAGREE more with S&C's comments.

Anyway, I've said my peace, and you're right, its up to dude to make up his own mind. My ONLY problem with that, is that many BH's come here completely confused, and advice like S&C's only confuses the issues more, without offering anything of substance to help the BH.

Very clearly, my priority is helping and protecting dude in this situation ... rain is simply unworthy of such consideration IMHO.

Peace.

The point that MyRev makes about Dudes respect is very important.

You do not overcome a situation like this from a position of individual weakness.

He needs to pull HIMSELF up by the bootstraps and recognize that he has tremendous value in this world. He can get a grip on himself.

If he gets some strength and belief in himself and out of the rut he MAY be able to pull her with him. But, it will be alot alot of work. That is a decision for him to make.

It's not about you. It's about Dude what he wants and his priorities.

S&C

S&C,

I hope Rain and Dude DON'T have MyRev on ignore!

MyRev,

I hear you!

I cringe everytime I read S&C's posts to Dude.

I wish there was a way we could start a D fund for Dude.

But, Fox is right when she says this...


MyRev,

Don't stop posting to Dude. He needs to consider what you are saying.

And, Fox, I'm glad you're hanging in there where other's have given up.

Myrev...I think you are right on the money. S & C is delirious suggesting to you how/what to post.
YOU are offering more help that S & C ever could.

Keep up the good work Myrev.

If you all want to take this off to another thread and discuss this that's fine.

But don't lose the focus. Dude wants to save his M. He isn't ready to chuck it just yet. So any advice telling him to do so is counterproductive to what he wants to do.

And just like Fox, as long as he wants to work on the M and he wants my help I will help. When he has had enough I will also support him on that. But he needs to have a plan developed on how to get there and how to determine if he is there or not.

To move straight to "running like he!!" away from rain, is not Marriage Building. I'm sure if Dude decides to call it quits, he wants to do it knowing he's done everything he could to save it.

Dude will know when he's had enough and when that comes, he will have support from me. Until then, I will help him try to restore his M.

S&C

just curious..if someone wants to kill them self...do you lend them a gun? Or do you try and talk them out of clearly self destructive behavior. Just curious.


It appears as thought he discussion is happening in the correct location...this thread.

Dude,

I was asked by another member to read your thread. The reason being your wife’s addictions.

Perhaps this has already been mentioned. I sped read your thread, and your wife’s, so I apologize if I missed this being covered. A very, very important aspect of your wife’s adultery seems to be getting neglected, yet it needs to be considered right up front.

Your WW has a long-standing gambling addiction. Evidence of other addictions too. These sorts of things make it impossible to recover from an affair. The affair is most likely a byproduct of her addictions rather than due to intrinsic problems with your marriage or any EN meeting by you.

There are various addictions that negate marital recovery: alcoholism, drug addition, SA, eating disorders, gambling – all such addictions must first be treated before anyone anywhere will be able to even begin marital recovery after adultery.

Dr Harley does not recommend using MB methods when the spouse has addictions. Those issues need to be treated first. Only then does MB apply. Only then will MB have a chance of working for the two of you.

I realize you think her gambling addiction seems to be getting better, but it looks to me like she is white-knuckling it. And replacing one addiction with another (the As).

You cannot meet the ENs of an addict. An addict of any ilk.

Trust Dr Harley in this – she needs to receive genuine effective and life long treatment for her addiction first – otherwise you will be going though this again...and again...and again...and...


With prayers,

PS: You mention financial constraints (due to her gambling addiction) prevent you from getting professional help right now. I am willing to arrange for a session or two for you with the MB counseling center so you can hear this advice for yourself. If you want this, post an answer back here.

I believe you when you write that you want to save your marriage. I believe you when you write that you still love her. I know exactly what you mean. But, be prepared to be told you need to protect yourself from her first - before you do anything else!

** A reminder to all posters to keep disagreements respectful. **
** The Harleys thank you. **