Hi folks,

Just wanted to gain some insight on how WS's earned the respect of the BS's. Or, those who are more in the early stages of recovery...what are you doing right now to earn BW/BH's respect?

A huge problem I have right now is that my W was basically, what you would say, a person who had the respect of almost anyone we knew...including me...pre d-day. After d-day, all of the respect that she has earned from me is all but gone. In fact, if you asked me flat out if I respected my W, I would tell you "no" without even thinking twice. W's adultery is pretty well known around town. She likes to blame me for it being known, because of my exposure of the affair...but, any person with any sense would realize that if there was no affair in the first place, I'd have nothing to expose...I think that fact is all pretty simple. I'm pretty sure that most people who know about her adultery (friends, family, co-workers, etc...the decent ones anyway) would have lost some respect for her because of her actions, as well.

I've read a lot of literature on "earning back trust", and she seems to be on the right track in that regard (I think). But, what about respect? Heck, I'm not even sure that loss of respect is an issue with other MB members, but it sure is with me. I'll ask you some questions under the assumption that this is an issue with others here...if it isn't an issue then feel free to let me know.

If you are a (F)WS...what exactly did you do to earn your BS's respect back? How long did it take?

If you are a BS...what did your (F)WS do to earn your respect? How long did it take?

We could use some help with this matter, if you guys could offer some advice.

Thanks

edit:

I am also very interested in any situations that are still struggling and/or just beginning recovery...and people who are in ANY part of the recovery process, for that matter. Anyone who has any ideas on this subject is welcome to reply.

Great thread, Intro.

I've thought quite a bit about this as well, and believe that respect is at a much more basic, fundamental level than trust or love etc.

I look forward to the replies...

Being a FWW I would say I did what he asked. We didnt have MB's back then in our life when I was caught up with the A. No Plan A or B to follow. He realized I hit rock bottom when I called my sil to get our ds because I was loosing it all. He came over and I think we just started to talk over again, reconnect. Eventually my mil got us a UHAUL to move my stuff out and back over on the other side of town. I lived with my mom. Wow I pushed my way into DH life. I wouldnt let up. I told him I wanted it to work for us for our child. We had our good days and bad. I think it was just us talking and trying to come to terms. I hope I have gained respect back in DH eyes. *He can answer for you on that one* I dont know how long it took to gain his.

Now for me being the BW on two matters. Matter 1 being his revenge affair... Being honest finally after 8 yrs. Knowing if need be I can ask questions over and over again. And that he is not hiding it anymore. That has earned respect. Hearing him say he doesnt want to see her or even talk to her has earned it as well. Matter 2. Deleting TONS and TONS of hard drive space, folders, movies, rid of magazines helped to start it off. Letting me know if he got on a site helps. etc... so i would say honestly is the key for respect and the more he keeps honest the better it makes me feel.

I have good news for you. We made it before we knew about MB.
You have MB, which increases your odds SIGNIFICANTLY!!

*** EDITED TO CHANGE

WE WERE PRETENDING WE MADE IT UNTIL WE FOUND MB

*** END OF EDIT


Now a few things APF did that helped...
She volunteered her whereabouts constantly
Once she was through withdrawal she was remorseful and completely transparent.
She made a point to show through actions she was sorry.
And when the f%^$wad OM did contact her, i was told immediately.

Now, We didn't know about MB so you have even more tools than we did back then.

Plan B letter stating NC written by the WS (wayward spouse) and send off by the BS (betrayed spouse) (maybe if our OM had gotten one, we could have saved ourselves alot of grief)

Second thing. BS needs to get all the answers to the questions asked. They may be painful but if the BS needs it to heal give it to him/her!!!

My FWW and I (I am a FWH) spent 8 years lieing about our Affairs to each other!! Can you having to start the clock OVER because you had to hold that inside you??

Be open and honest. If you spouse asks you thier socks smell, you give em the truth...

Whose socks dont smell anyways?

I know I rambled and I will try to be more concise in the future.

And introvert... your post about revenge affairs and having/not having one... Let me tell you what my RA was about....

[ years and years ago......]
I was told in no uncertain terms by my WW, that my WW was happy, moving on and I should do the same... So i did and you know what... it didn't help any... I never thought we could reconcile... but we did..

I now warn people to keep away from the opposite sex because they are in a vulnerable state...

I own what I did, and it was stupid and just added much more pain.

I made a choice to violate my vows, just because im WW violated hers, did not release me from mine!!

and until i found MB and learned .. yes learned that i was manipulating my wife by denying her the truth about her life. I came clean... about the details of my RA, about my porn addiction...

**EDITED ... i need to say my initial confession about the RA was done to hurt my W, the details were given freely after Pep and the rest of MB's vets set me straight on what I horrible thing it was
** END of Edit


then not too long ago.. my wife came clean about all the details of her affair... So... we are going through recovery all over again... such a shame to have squandered all those years...



wouldn't you agree?

Thank you for your responses.

I started this thread yesterday, and thought that I'd get a lot of replies by this morning (just moved, and don't have internet at home as of yet...only at work). I'm a little surprised that so few have had any insight on this subject though...maybe a little disheartened by the lack of replies.

I'm guessing that almost every BS in here has, in one way or another, lost some or all respect for their WS.

I hope that the lack of responses isn't indicative of how this problem may be near impossible to overcome.

Hi Intro--

I actually started to respond to you yesterday, but then got caught up at work and never finished the reply so I just didn't tack it onto the thread. So I'll try again now.

My H has also said that he's lost respect for me. And-- he's a FWH, and I've lost respect for him too-- a lot. I know that the VAST MAJORITY of the reason he still hasn't earned back that respect from ME is that he is NOT remorseful and repenting-- he still justifies and makes excuses for his RA and blames it on me.

That's how I am attempting at earning my H's respect back. By being truly remorseful, and by living everyday trying to make it up to him-- but knowing that I never really can and will spend the rest of my life trying to accomplish a goal I never will be able to. But that doesn't mean I'll give up, or that I quit.

It means I take a hard look AT MYSELF and make the changes that were necessary before the A, and now after the A.

I've seen GLIMPSES of the fact that his respect for me is coming back, he's said a few times that he has a lot of respect for my being able to step up and change who I was and really fight for the M in spite of the fact he's pretty much given up. He hasn't come right out and said "you have earned my respect back", but he's hinted at the fact that my changes have made a difference.

We are all people, we all make mistakes. I'm not saying that my A was a "mistake" in the same way that forgetting to pick up H's prescription at the grocery store was a mistake-- it is certainly one of the worst mistakes in life that you can possibly make.

But the first step in earning the respect back that you lost for that mistake-- is OWNING that mistake.

And I think THAT in and of itself-- makes 100% of the difference. You can tell when a (F)WS owns their mistake, and when they don't. When they make their changes REGARDLESS of what the BS decides to do. When their actions are INDEPENDENT of their BS's actions. If you read my thread, my H has been "punishing" me pretty much for the past year-- but at the same time, I WILL NOT stoop to that level anymore, and I WILL NOT change my own STANDARDS that I have set for myself in the wake of all of this because he's treating me poorly. I simply walk away. And that's the difference. My actions are not tied to his-- in short, I stopped REACTING and started ACTING based on my OWN STANDARDS.

Before, I REACTED-- based on his actions. And every WS does that-- you sort of have to to go down that proverbial slippery slope in the first place. Think about it-- every WS starts with "well (did or didn't) do this that or the other thing, and I'm miserable... therefore...." Its REACTING to a percieved shortcoming of the M and of the spouse.

Sorry, I'm a long winded person. But my point is, OWNING the mistake, OWNING your own shortcomings and changing your own standards of behavior (to much higher standards), NO MATTER WHAT THE BS DECIDES TO DO OR NOT DO is how I am earning my respect back. And these standards are now permeating my whole life, not just my M. I personally think any monkey can buy cards and flowers and do those sorts of things (which I am doing also)-- but CHANGING YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR is the stuff that real respect is made of-- and doing it CONSISTENTLY over a long period of TIME.

Its those little difference that will slowly add up.

E.

Well, I have lost 99% of the respect I had for my FWW. The other 1%? That's the basic human respect I'd give to most human beings on the planet other than OM...I'd swerve to avoid hitting them with my car, etc.

What has she tried to do in order to regain my respect?

She's maintained NC, been transparent, the whole 9 yards.

Has it worked?

No.

How on Earth can a WS gain back respect? By NOT screwing someone else? Whooptie-friggin-doo...you didn't spread 'em for another stranger. Terrific. Here's a gold sticker for your forehead...the type you earn for doing what you were supposed to be doing in the first place.

Do I expect additional respect for not being a cheater? No. Maybe a WS/FWS looks at not screwing around as some big personal sacrifice and a daily struggle (morons), but I do not.

Maybe I should expect additional respect for not being a murderer, rapist, child molester, bank robber, car thief, etc.

Maybe a WS can stop the loss of respect by becoming a FWS, but they can never get back to 100% in my book. Not without a memory-erasing device and a time machine.

This stood out to me, I think this is how I look at it, also.

I can't speak to my exH's respect for me, he said he respected me, but we are divorced so...

I had to act respectable for myself. We were seperated for 2.5 years. After my A ended, I took some time alone to digest what I had become and deal with my own disgust. Once my exH agreed to reconcile, I was already 100% committed and so very grateful for the opportunity to become the wife and mother I should have always been.

My BH didn't really want to deal with what had happened during the seperation. He knew my OM, they actually developed a friendship. He dated and then moved in with a GF for a few months. In his mind, we had both seen what was out there and decided to be together so it all worked out.

I wanted a little more dissection. I wanted to know if there were any features in his other relationships that he wanted to implement into the marriage. I guess I was asking what EN's they met to make sure I was meeting them. (This was before I found MB).

I wish I knew if my exH respected me before, during or after my affair. I wish we could have talked before he started his A. Of course, after he met his OW, he had a laundry list of things I was doing wrong (none of those were related to my A). So I don't really know how he perceived the marriage before he met OW.

He did tell me after d-day "I only reconciled with you because I was scared to be alone, then I met OW and knew I wouldn't be alone anymore". So I guess that is my answer. I was simply a conveinent person to look after his kids, cook and do laundry.

But back to your question, that is why I like what the quoted poster said. I think the WS has so much work to do on themselves to become respectable. Hopefully, the BS can see that work happening. I think after the WS can reconcile with themselves, then they can start the work to reconcile with the BS.

Krazy,

I like you, I really do and I am not trying to ruffle your feathers at all. I just want to get the uncensored BH opinion (that's your specialty right? )


So I am getting that your wife is at 1% and holding. And I get that she will never reach 100% again. Is this right?

As a FWS, I am looking for your insight, maybe I can understand more about what went wrong for me.

So let's say that your wife really does everything right. Owns up to everything, attempts to make restitution, the SF problems are all behind you, she has become a great wife and mom...

What do you think is the best "respect grade" she could build back up to?

Is there a difference between a "love bank" and a "respect bank"?

What is best case scenario in your situation (barring lobotomy or time machine)?

How do you have love without respect?

That is foreign to me. My hubby would say the same.

Neither of us could love someone we didn't respect.

Respect means alot of different things to many. So, it is important to define it.

I define respect as value, being worth something.

If you do not respect your spouse, you must ask yourself why are you staying or want to stay married. What do you value, being married, or the other person, or what specifically?

You cannot have what most would consider a successful marriage without respect.

Also, respect is something one usually gets by giving it. It is like a boomerang. The most respected people are those that are the most respectful.

I wouldn't say she's at 1%, but nowhere near 100%. I'd arbitrarily throw 50% out there, and that's being optimistic. No, she will never reach 100%, nor should she expect to.


I'd say she could get close to 100%. 90-95% probably.

It really isn't a numbers game, though. Let's just say that she can never achieve the level of respect she would have if she hadn't cheated.

Not in a thousand years, not in a million years, no matter what she does in the future. Not ever.

Well said TJD.

And my point was taken.

That's not true.

What if you had a child, and that child grew up to be a serial killer. Or a crackhead. Or a kid-toucher.

You would not stop loving your child, but you would stop respecting him.

Any BS who doesn't permanently lose at least a little respect for their FWS is either fooling themselves, lying, or out of their minds.

In my opinion, of course.

I define respect as more of an overall opinion of someone...of who they are as a whole.

That is why my FWW will not (and should not) ever gain back 100% of the respect she had before. The cheating is a part of who she is. It is a part of her "permanent record" and will never go away.

Therefore, "100% respect" is impossible for her to achieve.




Respect, like money, must be earned. It is not something you give freely and hope to receive in return.

Earlier I mentioned basic human respect...like swerving to avoid running over a pedestrian. That's all you get without earning it first. To freely give respect is begging to be taken advantage of.

I never said my H didn't lose respect for me.

I'm saying without earning that respect back my H couldn't love me, be with me. And he knew how that felt before...he doesn't settle for any less.

I don't think you can compare "romatic" love to "caring" love. The love for your child is caring love...my H had caring love for me after the A... we were able to get romatic love back.

Respect can be earned by actions. Your W has a huge battle to get it back from you. Every WS has a huge battle to earn respect of the BS.

But I think that "romantic" love and love you have for your child are two entirely different things. Its kinda like the eskimos... they have how many different words for the different kinds of love? The kind of love you have for a child is different than that for a spouse. A spouse is romantic love. You don't love your child romantically-- and you don't love your child based on how well they meet your ENs, etc (well, you SHOULDN'T!).

Maybe the original posters of the "no love without respect" should state that it means no ROMANTIC love without respect-- that's how I read it (not to put words in other's mouths (keyboards?!?)-- speak up if that's not what you meant, but that's what it meant to me!)

Its different. I don't think that analogy applies, Krazy. Sorry.

E.

My whole point is that you can have love without respect.

I never said I have zero respect for my wife...just that it will never be at the level it was before.

I suppose the level of respect needed for the love to continue varies from person to person.

Respect and love are two entirely different things.

As A BS I can empathise with the pain in the statement above. Pre A did we respect our mates because they did not cheat up till then. NO! we respected them for the qualities we admired in them. Post A they caused us pain and betrayed out trust and sense of security in that relationship. So I think step one of what needs to be earned back is that Trust and security that the realtionship is whole and without leaks ie no OP.

Everytime my WH does something positive towards healing our relationship it adds back into his bank. Not LB bank per say but rebuilding our realtionship bank which is what broke because of the A not the respect. So may be the title of the thread should be " How did/are you earning your BS's trust back" which might be a more beneficial thread for both the WS and the BS to get ideas on how to do it and how to gauge progress.


I agree with this part wholeheartedly, it would be hard for me to be with my H to stay if I did not value him.
Does the fact that my WH hurt me change my respect for him? Its not so black and white for me. I still respect him and admire all the qualities about him that I first loved. Does the fact that he hurt me count as a strike against him you betcha. I think my H is a nice guy who has selfish traits becuase an A is the most selfish thing you can do. Its a way you show complete disreard for your mates feelings and wellbeing and only care about what you can get.

Not to cause a stir, because I sincerely hope that your recovery is strong and lasts for all eternity. But (you knew there would be a "but" ;))...has your husband stated that he didn't lose any respect for you after finding out about your affair? If he is a member here, I'd like to know how you pulled this off, to be honest with you. It seems pretty hard to fathom that he still had the same amount of respect for you after the A that he had before it. After all...if respect is a two way street, and you showed a complete lack of it for him during the A...how did he not lose his respect for you?

I don't really think it's a question of "love" and respect. I'm a perfect example of this...I love my wife, because of who she was pre d-day...I have no respect for her, because of who she became (in my eyes) post d-day.

Is your BH a member here? I really think his insight would be of benefit to myself and my W regarding this topic.