My H wrote me a beautiful letter very soon after d-day. In it he said I was still the girl he'd married and he had never stopped loving me for a second, even the day of d-day. He was very, very disappointed in me though. That was his way of saying he had lost respect for me. I lost respect for myself.

I earned back his respect and my own self respect. We are six years out from this. I suppose I should really say we are two years out from this as we had a 2nd d-day two years ago. The A no longer defines our lives or us. There are some triggers still. We don't mention them but we're both aware of them. We never watch anything infidelity related on TV and there is a song on one of our favourite CD's which makes me cringe and which my H knows makes me cringe. It's a Mike Oldfield song and one of the lines is "leave me alone I'm a family man....."

My H never called me fecal matter or any other terms of abuse. One day he did look at me and say "you really were a [censored] for doing this to me" and it was a relief to both of us that he'd cleared the air.

We recovered because my H was prepared to respect me again and forgive me and because he never stopped loving me. I never stopped loving him either and I know that BS's find that hard to come to terms with but it is the truth.

Is your husband here Kiwi?

I didn't see that as being negative, and I wasn't venting.

At least I didn't think so. That's how I really feel, all the time, including good days.

From my point of view, that's how things really are. I've never been good at "drinking the Kool Aid", so to speak.

Things are the way are, and no amount of twisting and contorting will change that.

Because of the way I'm wired, I see infidelity (at least from my perspective) for what it really is.

My point was that much of the lingo and ideas surrounding recovery from infidelity seem to only exist for the purpose of softening the blow.

I think the divorce rate would be even higher without these "cushions", so they do serve a purpose. I just can't use them.

No, Intro my H isn't here. He posted once because I stood over him and made him post here lol. I could find his thread if I searched.

I always read out the posts that people were sending me and printed out a couple of them to show him. He doesn't like message boards. He thinks it is a bit looney talking to people on the net but he tolerates me doing it because he knows how much I like everyone and how much he and I owe them.

I think it is easy to come to terms with but it certainly adds to the offense.

If your husband called you fecal matter..it would not have been abuse..it would have been an accurate portrayal of the worth of a wayward. Thankfully they can change and recover their worth.

IF he recovered once and was prepared to respect you...doing it to him again clearly shows an absolute lack of respect for him.

I don't always agree with you Krazy...but there are times you hit the nail on the head. This is one of them.

Oh okay. I was hoping he could share his insight with me and the others here that were in need of help regarding this issue. I don't mean to look past everything that you say (I read your posts and take in everything you type), but it's just nice to actually hear ideas and get input from other BH's (not discounting any comments from other BH's). Maybe he can speak through you on this one....for me

This talk of respect is an interesting thing. Mimi was just educating me about it last week.

For me, looking back, I did not respect my WS. I didn't respect him pre-A. Not at all. In fact, I was rather awful and plain ol' disrespectful of him. That was one of the things that hurt so bad immediately after Dday. Because if I looked very carefully and closely, he had done PLENTY and then some to have my respect. Actually, the very fact that I was married to him and he was to be my partner, team player should have given him the respect he deserved, and obviously needed.

I think my lack of respect though came from my own lack of self-respect. It was hard to admit...hard to see....wanted to put the blame everywhere else. And in by doing so, it caused the very break-down of my marriage, which in turn, made the conditions for an affair possible.

As I came to realize during this time that I lacked respect, I took to do what was necessary to gain my own self-respect. I rose from the ashes of this chaos and steered my family right. Did I do it perfectly?? No...Did I make any mistakes?? of course....but slowly and surely did I see MY value, my beauty, my self-worth....and I conquered.

Now, because of my own self-respect that I have gained, I am learning to respect my WS. My opinion matters in this marriage. WS now treats it as so. Oh, sometimes he doesn't, but I stand tall and then he see's me for what I am.

You see, I would say right now, I have more respect for my WS than he has for himself.

He is righting his wrongs. He is taking care of me. He is getting back to work, something that had been neglected so bad during A and WD. He is taking command of this family and together as a team, we are working to make it better than ever. He cannot change what he did, but he can CHANGE to become a better man than he was before...and you know what?? That man wasn't all as bad as I had thought.......

and TODAY I am proud of him....

not2fun

I would agree with Krazy if he stated "they WERE fecal matter", but I'm not sure how saying "they ARE fecal matter" is going to help recovery for anyone.

well, this is his exact quote and he is referencing people IN affairs. Not FORMER waywards.

You're right...my bad.

Intro, I'm posting his post here because if I bump the thread everyone will think it's him posting again and it's a very old thread.

"Hi everyone

This is my first post on MB. I just wanted to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart who has helped Jenny (and me) to get to this stage of our recovery. I don't think we could have got this far on our own without your help. You guys are brilliant!

I want to especially thank JL for being wise and kind yet forceful at the same time. Jenny listens to what you say and what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

You know as a man it has been very hard for me to seek the advice of other men. In the early stages of our recovery all I wanted to do was talk to a sympathetic man.

Have you ever just wanted to talk to your father or father-in-law about what was on your mind? Mine are both dead and I just wished they were there for me as they were both such wise men in their different ways.

I talked to women acquaintances and women workmates and even though sympathetic and helpful I guess I really wanted to hear from another man what it was I was feeling and was this normal.

I was angry and hurt and didn't know how to channel all that emotion. I HATED the OM and still do after 7 months. I have told Jen that I know its wrong but if I ever see him in the street, at a restaurant or a social function he is going to get my fist in his mouth. I guess its a man thing but I don't care if I'm pushing my walker in a rest home he is eventually going to get his!

Anyway, I digress (you see how easy it is to get sidetracked into talking about the OM) what I really wanted to say is that I think Jen and I have nearly come through as a couple.

We have been on the rollercoaster ride that I expect every couple in recovery goes through. We have connected and disconnected with abandon. We have misunderstood each other constantly. We have parted sullenly in the morning and made up passionately at night. We have drunk an extraordinary amount of red wine and have smoked thousands of cigarettes. We have laughed and cried and endured the odd day of silence.

At the end of it all I still love my wife more than ever. I think and hope that we have both grown and learned from what has happened to us. We are both different with each other. Our marriage is not the same and it never will be. It can (and must) be stronger if we want to stay together. I look at her now and I don't see a "fallen" woman, I don't see the woman I married nearly 30 years ago, instead I see a different person, someone new, a lot more secure in herself and who she is. A woman who is prepared to start again in a new voyage with her husband. I'm not sure where it is we will end up but I'm sure excited that I'll be along for the ride.

Rob"

wasn't this before the second affair occurred?

I said this"



I was referring to people who are IN affair relationships being fecal matter...not that those same people will ALWAYS be fecal matter.

Well, OK, some of them will be.

Yes, it was but nothing changed - he still felt/feels the same way and would have written that again.

YOU took an awful chance the second time...I mean after all that your husband wrote and felt and to abuse him like that again really is disrespectful beyond measure.

You obviously have a man that cares a great deal for you...he has been willing to overlook a lot. Hang on to him.

medc, I have no intention of ever letting him go. He is an exceptional man.

Just to be nosy...was it the same OM?

KiwiJ,

Please don't take this as an attack, as I am not familiar with your story beyond what you just posted.

After the 2nd d-day, how did you convince your husband there wouldn't be a 3rd, 4th, etc.?

Why was there a 2nd, and what's different now?

In your husband's post, it did strike me as odd that he referred to being "at the end of it all" after only 7 months.

I think many BSs make that mistake. They want to be healed so badly that they make themselves vulnerable far too soon.

Yes it was. I had gone 2 years with complete NC. I bumped into the OM at the grocery store and stupidly thought that because so much time had passed and because I was so over him that it would be ok to chat to him.

After that, he started turning up where I was (at the shops, on my drive home) and I talked to him again. We had a cup of coffee at our local shops and arranged to meet for a drink. I didn't tell my H any of this but I confessed here on MB. I thought I was "in control" of it all, I wasn't intending to restart the A (even though I already had and, trust me, I defended that position to the death here on MB - the fog had rolled in thick and fast). You should have heard me on here "it's not an A again - I'm just seeing the OM again". We met for the drink, talked and I thought OMG he's a loser and this isn't right and I told the OM I didn't want any further contact.

I promised everyone on MB that I would tell my H but my foggy reasoning was that "nothing had happened" and my H had always said he would divorce me if I ever saw the OM again.

I had been talking to someone here on my work email, using my real name. It didn't take much to find me and the person (I don't think she'd mind if I said who it was, but there was a lot of unpleasant debate at the time whether it was right or wrong what she did and I don't want to start THAT again) rang my H to tell him.

After that, we really did struggle. But I'd grown up a lot since the first A and we really nutted it all out once and for all.

We have been very happy since then. Our "true" recovery.