Thank you for the reply. I keep trying to tell myself those things, but this feeling that all is lost with her and my marriage, really brings me down. Right now, I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I am following all advice from these books, you guys, my counselor. Telling her sweet things, not arguing, giving space, yet it seems like I am just treading water with no rescue in sight. I told her "I love you" in a text yesterday. Do you know how bad it hurts to not hear that back from the person you love the most? Her mother claims that she is hurting, but I don't see it. I have been nothing but nice and friendly to her since the last incident and she is showing nothing to me. Going out and partying, she is making a point to tell me that. I don't want to, but I guess I have to accept this sad and lonely feeling sometime. It scares me though, it really does. I thought I had accepted the fact that she might never come back, but I didn't, I was lying to myself.

I hope you can see that this is a really dangerous thing to do - giving to her, in the hopes of getting something back. You need to change your view of this. View it as giving her something you think she would like (the ILU), like a gift. You don't expect a gift in return, do you? Otherwise, you'll drive yourself crazy. And it's a looooong process; what you're doing is kind of like dieting and checking the scale every day; too much of that, and you'll give up.

Duke, you aren't treading water. You are showing to your wife that the changes you are making now are different from all the other times when you were sweet after being verbally abusive.

It's been a couple of weeks. You need to be prepared for the long haul. Plus, you're not treading water. You're swimming. Right now, there are waves so you can't see that the shore is getting closer. If tommorrow the water is smooth, you'll see the shore is closer.

This is so true. There is no doubt that it hurts and hurts a lot. I've been doing this for months now, and it does get better. I try and focus on the fact that my love is not conditional. It is how I feel and it doesn't matter if it's reciprocated or not. It's gets a little easier every day as you start to realize you don't need as much as you thought you did. Plus the little things that she does do get that much bigger and meaningful.

These days, if I send my wife a quick one sentence email, and get a thoughtful paragraph back, it means so much to me. Just as an example. When she gives me a hug without me initiated things, it means so much. I took these little things for granted before, and now that that is all that I have, I see them again.

Thank you. I know it will get easier, but I am still scared on which path she will take. The first 3 weeks were "there is still hope" and "lets be friends, go to counseling and we will build from there". Now I don't hear any of that. The last thing about "us" that I heard was "I am done!!". What motivation can possibly come from that? Knowing that everything I am doing is in vain? To her, living with me the last 6 months was terrible, and now she doesn't have that. She is having fun with no worries. All she has to look back on is the bad times and no matter what I am doing, she won't forget that.

I think our wives are practically identical. For the 1st month of our separation, my wife didn't have a care in the world either. A few things kind of kickstarted me into believing it was all worth the effort. First reality set in for my wife and she started to see that not having me around wasn't as wonderful as she originally thought. Second, people started really praying for our marriage. And third, I read the book, 'Winning Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late'. It was very helpful in understand what is and isn't helpful, why my wife is behaving the way she is, why trying to win her back is a good thing even if it fails, and that I never have to quit.

You don't need to find motivation from her actions. Just have faith.

I do not expect a reply from her, but I am still at the point where it hurts to not get one. She called me this morning so I could hear my son attempting to talk. She got back on the phone and I broke down. Didn't beg or nothing, but started to cry. She asked me what she could do, and I knew I had to pull myself together, so I stopped and ended the call. She sent me a picture of my smiling son as soon as we hung up. I am trying to get creative on the ways I express my love to her. I work outside all day and I just saw some pretty flowers. I took a picture with my phone and sent them to her. She messaged back "those are pretty!" and I said "they made me think of you". She responded "thanks". that was all, but I feel a little better now. I guess my next step after pulling myself up off the ground is to find something new and more creative to show her I still care. Our house, that I am about to be leaving, needs some minor repairs. I guess I can start there. It will also give me something to do...

I think you're doing great. I hope you are anyway, because that's what I've been doing. Maybe in some ways, crying in front of her may make you look a little unmanly, but then again it's honest and vulnerable. It may encourage her to do the same.

And I honestly think the attempts to have children talk with you is more her wanting to contact you and not have to admit that that is her intention.

This is going to take time, a lot of time, but try and concentrate on the end goal of where you want to be, and not where you are. Take what little she is willing to give you, and believe that behind all that hurt, she still loves you.

And I'm going to steal your taking pictures of flowers idea, it's a good one. When you see her, does you guys hug. One time weeks ago, I emailed my wife that my favorite thing to do is to hold her, and least favorite thing to do is walk away from her. She didn't respond for a day, but then replied that it meant a lot to her. She even then called me to make sure I knew she wasn't just being nice.

Anyway, don't give up, you're doing great.

Duke, let's keep in mind what prompted your wife to say "I'm done." You tracked her down at a restaurant and embarassed her in front of a client. Your bad behavior got worse.

The good news is your wife is giving you opportunities to show her how you changed. She didn't file a restraining order. She hasn't refused to talk to you.

Even a month is too short a time to know if your behavior changes are going to be enough to win her back. It takes a lot of time to undo lovebusters, but she's giving the chance while still protecting herself.

No matter what happens, these changes will not be in vain. These changes you make now will impact your life for the better across the board.

I agree. I just had to pull myself up again today. She has been texting me all day though. We have been joking around. She told me to "keep my head up" and "I promise it will get better and everything will be ok". She has even been telling me what she is doing and sending messages like what new movies are coming out. She told me she would let me know if she wanted to go see any of them. She also told me she has seen a very good change in me the past week. That made me feel good. Then she said she "wants to be Bestest friends". How is that for a pick-me-up? I am staying positive. You were right, the waves have slowed down and I can see the shorline. I just gotta keep swimming in that direction. Thank you guys so much. I believe God sent me to this site and sent you all to help me.

But YOU are doing all the work!

Boy, the road to reconciliation is more like a sheet of very thin ice. After the good conversations we had yesterday, via text, you would think it would be ok to cruise at the same level from here on out. Wrong! Not while she is out having fun. I guess she still thinks me texting is "controlling" or "not trusting". I got an earfull this morning. She brought up several things she was wanting to start as hobbies and so on, and I thought it was an opportunity to ask if I could join. Not so in this case. She said I gotta "find myself and just let it happen". Whatever "it" is, I don't know. This is truly an up hill, if not up mountain, battle. The one thing I hope she sees from all of this is my determination to not give up, ever. It seems like the more I back off, the better off she is and the more she contacts me. But the "bestest friend" thing has me all confused. Was she just saying that to appease me? I don't know why she would say it if she didn't mean it, I didn't even ask for it....

From what I've heard, it's not too surprising that she's waffling back and forth a bit. But specifically on the hobbies, I'm not at all surprised that she didn't want you involved. I imagine she wants to do it herself so she can get the sense of accomplishment, and feel a little better about herself. What you can do is ask how things are going on compliment her on the what she's accomplished with her hobbies. I think that lets her know that she can be herself around you and that you are there to support and not control.

Chalk one up on the "good day" board. Rode my motorcycle, ordered a pizza and I am sitting here eatting it alone watching some last comic standing. I don't mind being alone at the moment. I am alone, but I don't feel lonely. Had a good day at work. To top it all off, my wife has been sending me pics all week of our son. A few hours ago, she sent one of her smiling holding our son. What a great day!

"To her, living with me the last 6 months was terrible, and now she doesn't have that. She is having fun with no worries. All she has to look back on is the bad times and no matter what I am doing, she won't forget that."

Believe me Duke, in time, without LB there to drag the situation down, she will forget - it will fade.
The relationship I had with David was a very abusive and controlling one (even Dr. H told me so). Only 2 of the 12 months we had together weren't terrible. It was a rollercoaster ride all the way. He even slapped me to the floor one time - and I never hit him - not even then. I should have left him then but I didn't. It took his being diagnosed as a SA and finding out for a fact that he was cheating before I left.

And even though he got married, he kept coming back to me telling me that he missed me. I had to let him know that wasn't my problem anymore. But I "had" to do it from a "logical" standpoint, because even though I wouldn't let him know it, I missed him too. When the times were good - they were really good, there was just too much other stuff.

Anyway, all I'm trying to tell you is that even in m situation, the bad stuff faded away. It took quite some time, but when he would leave me alone, I'd forget the bad stuff that was there. In fact I had to sit down and write out all of the stuff that he did to me to make sure I was strong enough to stay away from him.

Don't give up. Chances are she started feeling something for you and then all of a sudden got scared and started hunting something to run the fear off. It's a cycle, and it will probably run for some time to come. DON'T GIVE UP YET!!

Just hang on and keep up the good work you've been doing so far, avoid any LBs, and give it time.

BEST WISHES,
RMW

Well said, RMW.

Duke, you're going to be bringing a lot more to the relationship as you learn to be alone without being lonely. Knowing that you two choose to be together from positions of strength is much better than suspecting you two stay together out of neediness and fear.

How's the journaling going? How are the workbooks you found and dug out?

I have actually been procrastinating on the journaling and the work book. Up until last night, pity parties have been filling up my time alone. Tonight will be a good night to really start on those things. I think I really need to do it. I can't understand myself a lot of times. Some good days, and some bad. Last night was great, but then no calls or texts from her didn't bring on a good morning. One day at a time though, I gotta keep that in mind.

Mornin' Duke.

Here's a thought. When she doesn't text or call you, consider that maybe she's having a bad day too. Or maybe she's getting herself back. In abusive relationships, or in relationships where spouses have been mistreated but not quite abused, the target often feels as if he or she has lost the self. When you're walking on eggshells all the time to avoid provoking an attack, when you give up things you want to avoid an attack, you lose a bit of yourself each time. And, more importantly, you lose your sense of power and control over yourself. That's when you lose self-esteem.

Part of your wife's time alone is to gather her sense of power back. To know that she can stand up for herself, she can enforce boundaries.

One of your jobs during this time is to realize just because someone says "no" to one thing, or someone disagrees with you about one thing, it doesn't mean 1. you aren't loved, 2. you won't get what you need, or 3. they are about to abandon you.


You know that saying "Good fences make good neighbors"? We can say that about boundaries. The same is true in all relationships. Maintaining your boundaries, and respecting the other person's boundaries is essential for good relationships. What makes relationships tricky is that there are different boundaries depending on the type of relationship. For example, a boyfriend can give his girlfriend a warm hug and kiss as a greeting. People in a business setting do not give warm hugs unless there are extenuating circumstances, like a death occurs and the people are friends. No one kisses in the office in the States. I can't speak for the Europeans, though. LOL.

Even within one relationship, the boundaries can shift. Right now, your wife has set up fences far away from her inner being. She's keeping you at a distance. HOWEVER, as you earn her trust by respecting that distance, she may invite you further in.

There are a couple of excellent books called Boundaries and Boundaries in Marriage by Towsend and Cloud. I personally found that having every point referenced to scripture was distracting, but the information and perspective were terrific.

My next thought you seem to get instictively, Duke. But for those who don't:

Sometimes, when person A sets up distant boundaries, the person B respects those boundaries, but invites A into far into his or her own territory. Usually, this freaks out person A. There are two reasons I think. The first is that when person B dramatically ups the level of intimacy, A suspects that B will demand the same from him or her, and A is clearly unwilling to do that. Hence, the distant boundaries. The second is that confidences place a burden on the one that hears it. I'm not sure why this is, but it seems the case. I think it creates a feeling of responsibility because of the new knowledge. I could be wrong on the second point, but I know I'm not wrong on the first. LOL.

Hope this weekend will go well for you.

Well, so far so good. My wife came home from the beach today. She knew my Aunt's wedding was today, so she rushed home and invited herself to come along. We had a great time! I brought my son home with me and she went back to her parents. She then rode over to our house and we ate supper and talked. Very good talks. She told me she loves me! I am trying to calm down here. I am supposed to move out Monday, but she is on her way to her parents now. She is going to ask them if she can stay a little bit longer so I can get further into my treatment. She said she wants to come home and for me to hurry up and get better. Before she left, she kissed me on the head. I told her by with a hug and went to walk away when she spun me around and gave me a kiss. I did tell her that we can't rush into it or all might be lost. We both understand that, but we both made clear that we want this to work out no matter what. We both committed ourselves to fixing it. I will stay in touch, and I know this is far from being fixed yet. This is where I am really going to be tested. The "honeymoon" feeling is coming back, and I have to push that to the side for our own good. I can't go back to my own ways. I can't hurt her anymore.

Thank you guys so much for all of the help. She also has been reading the 5 love languages? or something like that. She is going to give it to me when she gets through, and she had me print out the EN and LB questionnaires and wants us to both fill them out before we go any further. Thanks again guys!! Greengables, I don't know if I would be at this point without your daily guidence!

Awww, I'm so happy for you! Just keep remembering you've got another 30-40-50 years together...this week is just a drop in the bucket. Take it slow!