I am not sure exactly where to begin all of this. First I want you to know that although I am certain some of what I may say will offend and hurt some of you that is not my intent. I am just very aware of how messed up some of my thinking is and need help/advice on how to change the thinking. So I apoligize ahead of time for some of what I will say.

My wife is currently posting here as 2b1again. Although she does not believe I will stay off of her thread, I will. I would ask that you not take things I am saying to her, as I don't want to cause her any more pain than I have already. Thanks

This is going to take a while to get all out, so please bare with me on that. I will post as I can.

Background....Married 23yrs. EA started April of 07 somewhat physical as well but no SF. Told wife in May of 07. NC was established Aug 07. I started reading here then, but really was convinced we could still be friends. Wife did not know about this site. We were trying to recover but really went backwards in our relationship as the A was all that was talked about. The real reason is my constant thinking of her. Eventually broke NC in October 07. We saw each other in passing, and then I called her. Me and the OP tried to establish NC several times after that, but it never lasted. Thought in Dec of 07 we had finally established it for good, and tried to show wife I was serious gave her ring back to her, made a big deal over it. (more on that later). OP and I saw each other again in town, and she e-mailed me afterwards and it was all back on again. Eventually had SF 02/08. Seperated from spouse 03/08. NC established again, I think for good, 05/08. OP has moved out of state. I should mention she was the one that went no contact most of the time but also broke it most of the time. I broke the first NC but after that and I truely can't count how many. She broke most of them. Not that any of that really matters. Moved back after wifes invite back home 2 weeks ago.

Sorry, I know that was long hope not too much in one segment, I know it gets hard to read and have read here enough to know not to do that.

So here I am now partly from my wifes request, as a poster suggested she ask me to register, but mostly because I know I need a path out of this. I have days where I feel like I am close, and then the memories of the A swamp me, and I withdraw from my wife and think she would be better off without me. Which of course during the A I told her that often. Of course reading here I know that is not a new thing.

I still can't believe I have done this. I never thought it would happen. I chose to have this A, and I don't know why I would go that route instead of trying to resolve our issues at home. I could never stand liars and I became one.

I am in no way looking for sympathy, and expect to recieve the 2x4's I have read so many of. I want and need to hear from both BS's and WS's. I have come to respect so many of you on here. It is getting late, I will be back to post more Friday, anything you can already share? I will answer questions, but would prefer no questions about the OW as it causes me to dwell on the A.

Hi Not2L8,

First of all welcome to MB. I think its a good thing you've come and are willing to try. I am the wife of Fatty, another WH who started posting here 4 days ago.

I am pleased you understand the 2x4's, these people have excellent bullsh*t detectors, and dish out beatings accordingly.

I have no advice, beyond push thru whatever comes to you over the next few days.

Regards,
Lil

Welcome, not28, you are right. You are not too late.

I can only say (as an FWW) that NC is the solution to your withdrawal. I know WS's don't believe this when they are in the throes of withdrawal, but it really does work. It makes you able to lift your head again and time really does take care of things.

I suggest you visit Fatty's thread. There is some VERY good information and advice there.

Not2l8,

Have you read the articles here? If so which ones, and more importantly which ones seem confusing to you?

I take it you and your W still speak. I also take it that you two are separated, is that right?

So what do you want help with? Is it forgetting OW? If so, that won't happen. What can happen if you address your marriage in a positive way, is the feelings associated with your memories will detach. Gradually the feelings do go away.

If it is how to reconnect to your W, there are many things that need to be done, but start with honesty, and I mean about everything. I think before you address the issues of needs, love busters, and such, consider reading Harley's four rules for a good marriage and his policies of "radical", not brutal, honesty and then his policy of joint agreement, POJA. POJA is really a tough one, but it can lead to a level of intimacy if used with radical honesty that your marriage needs.

Finally, I suspect you realize this, but understand this is a PROCESS not a quick fix. It going to take time for you to change your perspective about yourself, other people, your W, and your marriage. It will take time for your W to heal and develop trust for you even if she still loves you.

I will end this now by stating to you, the love you promised when you married your W was not to "feel in love" but to "love her" as in the verb. It means respect, it means care, it means considering her wants and needs, it is an action that YOU control no matter how you feel.

It is late here, I must hit the rack. But, I look forward to your thoughts. Weekends are also slow around here so don't worry if you don't receive many responses.

I know you don't fully understand what you have done to your W, but you would be well served to figure out what it was that you told yourself to violate YOUR BOUNDARIES, YOUR HONOR, YOUR VOWS. That is a start toward recovery. You need to understand yourself first and develop plans to protect yourself and your boundaries.

God Bless,

JL

N2l8:

JL posted good stuff, as always.

If your sincere, he will post even MORE awesome stuff for you.

I bumped my Dday story: Curtains for LG

You may get some assistance from it, maybe not.

You got a shot. You came here. That's really, really good.

Get a new cellphone. Get a new Email Address. If your work phone number and email address can NOT be changed because you just work there, ask IT to add the middle initial to your email address. Just enough to change so that OW can't find you. If it's tough for OW to find you, then contact is easier to avoid.

And, restrain yourself from contacting her. I would call MY WIFE when I felt an overwhelming urge to call OW. That worked alot better.

This is start. I can have more. But it's up to you.

LG

Welcome to MB'ers. As you come here with an attitude that shows you want to learn, I see no reason for any 2 x 4's...although some of the comments and advice may sting at times.

First, to get it out of the way, your wife most likely WOULD be better off without you. That being said...it is really HER call to make. Honor her wishes.

Next, I think I speak for every BS on this site when i tell you that IF you are not being 100% honest with your wife (the kind of honesty that would have you jump at the chance to do a polygraph exam to PROVE your word) then you are still very much a threat to your wife and a full blown WS. Honesty is the cost of admission. Make sure you are giving her that. She deserves nothing less.

You are at serious risk for breaking NC again. Make sure a NC letter has been sent. Change all phone numbers, email addresses and ANY manner in which the OW can contact you. Make sure that her husband is well aware of the affair...he too has a right to know and frankly it would speak volumes about your lack of character if you did not make him aware of what has happened in his life.

Consider your wife taking you back as a gift that is priceless. You really don't deserve it...she gave it to you...now show her you value what she has done and be the best husband you can possibly be.

Reach out to TST as he is a former WH that REALLY gets it. He can be your most valuable resource here. Call the Harley's if you can afford it....if you can't...call them anyway!

Thank you for being sensitive to the feelings of other posters here. That shows a lot of maturity on your part and gives me hope that you will rise to the challenges ahead of you.

See the OW for what she truly is...not the fantasy that an affair creates.

gain, welcome to MB...and good luck to you.

Welcome and glad you are here posting!!!!!

Hi Not2L8,

Welcome to the Marriage Builders forum. I'm glad your here.

Have you read the book "Surviving an Affair" yet?

Have you changed all your phone numbers and e-mail accounts?

Have you written a NC letter that your wife approves and mails?

Have you agreed to do "whatever it takes" to recover your marriage?

You've done alot of damage by committing adultery, and you have alot of work ahead if you want to recover your marriage.

You said, "I withdraw from my wife and think she would be better off without me".
The reality is that you will both have to work through the pain of what you've done, either together or apart, regardless of whether you think she would be better off without you.
Do your best to stay OFF of your own pity-pot and focus on what it's going to take to help your wife recover from all the wreckage. Only then can you begin the work to restore Romantic Love again.


Read Dr. Harley's "Four Rules to Guide
Marital Recovery After an Affair" link again and again!


LINK to 4 Rules

lil-d thanks for the welcome and encouragement. I plan on being open to what I will read here. Sorry that you have to be here under your circumstances. I have read much of your husbands thread and am greatful that you two are here sharing your stories.

kiwi, thanks for the welcome. I did think was too late at one point to even try recovery, as I did not think once my wife knew the depth of my deceipt would be willing to give another try. Yet she is. Thus I know it's not too late.

I know NC is a big part of getting through this if not the biggest. I know I can't handle the contact. Today marks 2 months for NC.

JL-

I have read probably just about every article here. But it has been a while for some of them. I started reading here last August when I thought the A was over. I did not share it with my wife at that time because I did not want her to see the importance of NC for life. Seemed so extreme. Now I know why it has to be. None of the articles were paticularly confusing, I will start reading them again, any suggestion as to which you think would be of most assistance?

We are no longer seperated. She invited me to come back home 2 weeks ago today, and I of course accepted. Still was not sure if it was the right time, with as mcuh as I still need to change, but from reading here, I knew it would be all to easy to withdraw from my wife and let my thoughts be on OW.

Mostly what I want help with is to reconnect to my W. I have come copletely clean in what took place. I told her the main general pieces, and wrote all detail out and gave it to her. She has not read it at this point, and I don't know if she will. I took this approach based on much of what I read here, the oppinions on how to tell vary greatly here, but that is what I did.

you said "Finally, I suspect you realize this, but understand this is a PROCESS not a quick fix. It going to take time for you to change your perspective about yourself, other people, your W, and your marriage. It will take time for your W to heal and develop trust for you even if she still loves you"

I do understand this, my wife I think still looks for the quick fix but I think she is learing here that it's not that way. Your comment is so on the mark for what I know needs to change, and it is very confusing as to how to go about changing thatperspective towards all of these at the same time.

I have been praying as of late that God would help me to take action in loving my wife. Praying in and of itself is a struggle at times. I struggle with the fake it til you make it concept, as we feel like I did that in Dec. and I allowed it to blow up.

I know I need to address the bondry issue. I do have questions on that, that I will come back to later.

Thanks JL and I look forward to your insight.

LG- I actually read it some time ago, but was no where near where I am today. I read it again. We are certainly still on a roller coaster, but do find that the ups and downs are not as steep.

I have changed the cell phone number, some what kicking and screaming but changed none the less. We actually went to the store on July 4th it was close to closing time they made all the changes within about five minutes and we were done. I didn't even have a chance to make excuses of how we could just do it later. I left there thinking ok so I guess it did need to be done.

The vast majority of contact was through work phone and e-mail, and of course a yahoo account that only we knew about. I told my wife about that, and we deleted that account. So work remains an issue. I am to be moving into a different office, so will be getting a new number, which leaves e-mail. I looked for ways that my wife could be notified if she sent me an e-mail but could not find it. I know IT is goint to ask why I want to change the e-mail. As I think about it some more.....I have not wanted to close this door. I will move forward to do so. Or i should say I will do so to move forward.

Lastly, in regards to calling your wife when you would think of OW, was your wife aware of the reason? She does not take kindly when I mention anything in that regard of which I can understand but then how can I be honest about it.

Thanks for your advice especially on the e-mail thing as taking the middle initial approach had not occured to me. I was to busy coming up with reasons/justifications to tell my wife why I couldn't change it.

MEDC - thanks for the reply. You are one of many that I have come to respect here. Of course early on that was not the case.

I have read much of what you and Melody have had to say about coming clean. As stated above, I have done so. And yes, I would take a polygraph for her if she so desired.

As noted above, cell number has been changed and I will be discussing with work now on changing my e-mail there. I know they won't change the phone number til I change offices, as there is a cost for them to do so. The OW is single so there is no BS on that side to inform. NC letter has not been sent, NC was established via phone call by her. I really don't want to send something to her that could cause contact. Also she recently moved out of state, and I don't know her address.

I know my wife has given me a gift, and sometimes it is hard to accept knowing full well I am not deserving. Also the A has led my oldest DD 20 to not speaking to me. We have not spoken since I informed her of our seperation in March. I can accept why should would take that approach, but her mom now suffers because of that as well. This is an area of question that I have on how to reach out to my daughter in this as well.

I will speak to my wife about a phone appt. We are in MC but honestly that has been slow gowing. Most of it good but slow and lacking a plan. That is what I am looking for.


Thanks again MEDC

thanks believer, and thanks for posting to my wife...she didn't tell me what you have said, but she did tell me you posted to her. She needs all the encouragement she can get.

I have not read SAA. I am currently reading walking with God by John Eldredge, and just finished reading The Shack which MC/IC recommended I read. I guess most of my focus in that regard has been on me. Course it has been on me for some time now unfortunately my taker took over big time, and the giver has been slow to give. Is SAA the book you would recommend next? We do have LB and HNHN the whole packet, I bought it some time ago. We actually started to go through LB book back in 11/07 but I was still in contact with OW without my wife's knowledge so obviously it did not amount to anything. We do however have a language we can speak that we both understand. This is part of what I am seeking advice on, in a path of reconciling, is which resourses to use first. I am to scattered with this already as to what to read. Of course I read here alot as well.

I have changed cell phone, but not work phone or e-mail, but will work on doing having that done. Have not written the letter, and as you can see in comment in prior post, I am not sure about doing so.

Yes, I have said I would do what it takes, but my actions have not followed very well. All I am certain of, is that my wife needs me to be intimate with her, and this has been a huge stumbling block for me mentally. Being passionate with her, causes much guilt and honestly I don't know how to stop comparing the kissing. I am not doing it on purpose, and it is not all of the time, but when it happens it not good. Do I have to just look at it as it just takes time? If so how do I let my wife know that, or do I?

I apologise if you've mentioned this already.... is your W open to helping you redirect your thoughts if they move towards OW?

Fatty tells me and while I do get a bit ticked if I felt we were doing something that OW had no right to come into, I do help distract him, usually by asking about something MB related.

As far as comparing the kisses, stop it. Focus on the nastest aspects of OW if you have to, but dont bring her into your wifes intimacy. Yes it is awkward, and feels a little unatural to be intimate, fatty has been home for a few days and I still dont feel like we quite fit right when we hug and kiss, but I guess its a bit like the start of any new relationship, it takes a bit of time to get used to each other, and comfortable.

Other than that you sound like your doing ok. Keep it up

Lil

Speaking from the perspective of a BS, I would NOT recommend you tell your W that it is hard to be intimate with her because you are comparing her with OW. While I completely believe in honesty, I think that this may just be too hurtful for your W to hear...and something that will haunt her.

At this point, I think you might be best not to share the reason, but to talk with her about how you really want to rebuild your intimate relationship.

Think of your A is an addiction. You are going through withdrawals. As time goes on, the memories of your A will fade and you will be able to re-connect with your W. You have made getting over the A much harder with continued contact with OW (I know you figured that out already...but REMEMBER IT). Now that you have committed yourself to NC, you will be able to withdraw from the A and return your mind to your M.

If you are having a hard time changing contact information, give your W permission to do it. Or have her install a keylogger on your computer so that you know she knows every email you send. My H gave me all of his accounts/passwords. Of course, I didn't believe that he couldn't hide things from me if he wanted...so I check up on him from time to time. He realizes that I NEED to do this to rebuild trust.

One of the hardest things that I have had to deal with as a BS is the idea that I was tricked for so long. It's hard to trust ANYTHING after an experience like this. You are devastated by the experience and are terrified that you will make the same mistake again.

I know that you are struggling with your side of recovery, but your W is too. She needs simple words of support and encouragement. If you are not ready to show physical affection for her, you can still support her. My H did several things that were VERY helpful for me:

he left me little notes that said he loves me

he called me at least three times a day to ask how I was doing and if I needed to talk he made himself available right then

he made sure to hold me in bed at night

he made opportunities for us to spend time alone and made himself available to me as much as possible

he became completely transparent and never questioned me checking up on him...he knew I needed to

he agreed to do ANYTHING I needed him to in order to recover - including offering to abandon EVERYTHING and start over with me somewhere else

he made sure to tell me any time there was contact from OW (which only happened once in the beginning)

he wrote a NC letter and let me send it

Sorry...I got on a roll. You are welcome to ask me anything. I have posted to your W a few times and am glad to see you here.

hicktownmommy

Lil (and Not),

I think it's normal to feel unnatural at first. There is an alienation that happens. The WS is probably feeling nervous and guilty and the BS is feeling unsure and hurt. As a BS, I know I felt like I didn't want to do anything that H and OW had done and it took time for me to accept that I needed to reclaim that intimacy. Also, I was worried that H was comparing us.

It takes time.

HTM

Lil - I am not sure where she stands on that issue exactly. I don't think she is too comfortable with it yet I need her to be cuz there is no-one really to turn to so I turn to my self and that's not good. Example last night while cleaning my truck she was out there with me, just talkin a bit really quite pleasant. Then I tell her something that I found strange as it pertained to the situation.

I told her that on my way to work that day, that I had not seen a car like the OW in that whole time. And I use to see them all the time, she drove a black hummer so it stood out. Anyways on the way home from work I see one, and then later that evening I see another. I was just letting my wife know that I found it odd that it had crossed my mind that it had been a while and then I see two. Well I could see the dissapointment, and then the questions of well what did you do when you saw them. So not sure how to share in those situations, or just keep it to myself.

Thanks for the advice. At least I know we are not the only ones struggling with being comfortable with it agian.

I think you almost might need to share those things here instead. It's so early...she has a lot of burden to bear already...I know that I felt like I could barely keep my own head above water let alone help my H stay afloat.

What about journaling it? Do you have any close male friends? You need to find a way to share it without further alienating her. I don't know if she would understand better if you preface your comments with "I am really trying to be open and honest, but I understand if you would rather I not share these thoughts with you."

HTM