MrsEWS,

I understand that MrEWS hasn't forgiven you for your EA, and agree with it totally. In order to be forgiven, we have to stop doing the act.

Which means no contact. As long as it continues, the A continues. And I don't believe in forgiving too soon, either...because there are three forgivenesses...there's God's forgiveness, your BH's forgiveness and your self-forgiveness. You only have power of your self-forgiveness...and understand the ways of the other two.

None of them happen while the attack on your marriage continues. I understand you are now of the belief you will not contact OM again. What ways have you come up with for proving each day of NC to MrEWS? I ask because this fortifies your resolve, and with the latest contact so recent, begins rebuilding in tiny increments the trust lost all over again. Recovery only begins now...

How is your forgiveness for his past AO's? How is your forgiveness to yourself for choosing to believe you needed rescuing? (Self-disparaging.)

Are you saying that your #1 EN right now is FS? Is believing you cannot accept lack of $$ right now reasonable? Is it that you fear not having enough to live on? Acceptance of what truly is isn't approval of it...means we accept reality. That can be very difficult to do coming out of the fog. MrEWS has made a life-change in regards to his previous pattern...where he put others' esteem ahead of his marriage. How is that working for you right now, this important shift?

Would be great to hear from MrEWS on next-steps he's taken towards his solvency plan...I think it was estimated for September? I dunno...might be my own wishful thinking.

Also, MrEWS, about boundary enforcements...you didn't have those with your business partners...you refused to enforce...have you come to realize how not enforcing boundaries is a key issue with your own anger, frustration and pain? Maybe the way God was showing you in business was also a reflection within your marriage and within yourself?

LA

From a reply from you on another thread...about what to talk about...

I suggest you get Gottman's "Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work" from the library and try out the exercises. You're not alone in not knowing what to talk about after 25 years...happens after 10, 15 and 20, too. These exercises are rather fun, they don't assume you know all about your partner, get to see and hear them with new eyes and ears.

So you get to know new and be new, too. Fits really well with Dr. Harley's ideas, too...his Good Friends of Conversation and fun exercises count towards the 20 hours of UA.

I wondered in your other post if you were saying you had printed out the free Recreational Inventory here on this website and gone through it with MrEWS or if you hadn't? I'm sorry I couldn't tell.

LA

LA,
I purchase the 4 books by Dr.H and the workbook. EWS and I go back over EA inventory, the LB test and the RC. We can not fill out the financial worksheet yet, it will really be a LB for both of us and we know it. On Wed. July 16th, we are going to try to face it. I had to borrow the money from the bank, a signature loan, maxed me out in all areas, bank, credit cards and family, but we had no money to buy food this week. This is a real LB for me, it depressed me, but I did not LB back and contact OM. I have broken off all relationships with everyone and I am focusing on meeting EWS's EN.

What do you guys do for a living?

Loving,
I had an EA with a boyfriend from h.s. who lives in another state. I even went so far as to tell EWS the minute he had contacted me. EWS was glad at first. We were so far behind in our finances he told me he hoped that this OM would bail me out. But after I asked him to move out etc. he found this board and started a plan A. As part of his healing and recovery he disclosed his two one night stands and then through our children and myspace I was informed of his EA. She had pictures of them at a concert together and one of my daughters found it on her myspace. EWS swears her H was at the concert and their was never any PA between them. No, I did not contact her H to find out. I did email her, but never her H. He broke off contact with her twice, the first time she tried to contact him again and he showed me. You said I should not contact OM and asked how EWS would know if I did. EWS followed the advice of this board and installed a key logger, has my passwords, and cell phone records. We didn't do a POJ, he just took them at the disclosure of my EA. No, I do not have his passwords, but do have his cell phone records. I never had a trust issue with EWS and so never noticed that he talked to his EA as many as 9 times per week and for over 30min. sometime over a two year period. For some reason I still don't feel the need to look?? WHY

EWS was not careful during the last of the PA and had carried around guilt for 5 years about it as my health showed signs of a problem. But he just couldn't bring himself to admit it to me.
He also brought one of the women bye our home with our children here.

Do you think he can't forgive me, because he can't forgive himself for this. You had to see his face when he finally admitted it. That was the most pain I have felt, I do not like to see someone hurting that bad. Maybe I offered forgiveness to soon and he doesn't believe it?

Cat,
Don't hate me o.k. I am a high school music teacher. I know all about kids today and that's why I won't mentor anyone of them. I do it already as part of my job. EWS hates this. I have gone so far as to allow wayward teens into my home to try to save them and instead it influenced my own children and now I am paying for it. Reread my posts and you'll see just how badly. When I am not teaching I perform with a band. I was performing with the military band when I met EWS. EWS has no knowledge of music and it is a LB because no matter what I SAY, I show that it is the REAL LOVE of my life. For personal enjoyment we can not share this. EWS likes metal, I like classical, we try to share, but it's always a bad experience for both of us. I end up talking down to EWS about it.
EWS is an athlete. He lives for sports. He watches it on TV all the time. When he was young he played baseball, but now his back hurts too much for that. For his job he is self employed in construction. When things were good he owned a Porch and would take me for rides. When we met the only thing we did for the short time we dated was ride around on a motorcycle. We are pretty boring people I guess!

This is something you need to work on.

You know why?

Because, no matter how much you get, it will NEVER be 'enough'.

why would I hate you? I only asked because I thought, if you need money, your skills might be something you could do side jobs with. I'm a writer, so I get side jobs at a website that you bid on jobs all over the world. Just thought that could help your finances.

If you don't want to be around kids, there are plenty of other things you could do. Be an animal foster parent for those orgs that go to Petco and Petsmart on the weekends. Volunteer to play music at a rest home. My D17 plays the piano at my mom's. Join Habitat for Humanity and H could use his contracting skills. A million ideas out there, if you would just decide to look for them.

No offense, but you just sound like you get a payoff from being a victim and miserable. My H does that; being the victim keeps him from having to be accountable for anything - it's always someone else's fault.

Just a thought.

I'm not following your response well, MrsEWS.

Did you read on the Emotional Needs forum, Toosadtosmile's thread, what turtlehead wrote about how to make your own thread on MB?

I think part of my no following your response well is because you didn't want to post to MrEWS's thread...you wanted to leave it for him...and I went and mixed in questions to him and to you in my response to your post earlier.

If you would make your own thread, I will ask you my questions again there, maybe with better clarity, 'k? It's a Monday. Maybe I'm shooting too high for myself, eh?

LA

The woman my W talks about has worked with me on and off for 17 years. The last job I worked with her at she was the office manager. I had to talk to her because she dispatched me on service calls. I had no physical attractions towards her at all. I always thought we were just friends until I came on these boards. Then I realized she was meeting a couple EN's I was lacking. Recreational companionship and conversation. I did go to a concert with her without prior approval from my W. But her H was there and her sister. I didn't even sit with them through the concert. I sat by myself through the whole concert. This OW definitely had an attraction towards me and I realized that many years ago. My career field is limited to companies and so OW and I were likely to work together again and we did. I did not make my choice to work at my last job because of her. I was made promises by the owner which I had also worked with for many years at the same company as OW did. The promises never came to fruition and I was frustrated once again with my job situation.

Now as far as a key logger on our computer goes there is not one installed. Never had the intention to install it. I don't have my W's passwords or her cell phone records. At this point I am trying very hard to build trust back with her. I have forgiven her for the EA. If I hadn't I would not be here at my home with my W. My W has not asked for passwords to my email accounts. If she wants them she can have them. I have nothing to hide. Most of my emails are from my mother. I don't use email for business. As far as my phone records they have always been available for her to see and she even opened it before I did.

Right now I am working with another former co-worker that has also opened his own business. We just bid on a very large job to retrofit a basically large 9 story building fire alarm system. We have a very good chance of getting the job due to knowing the other bid amounts. My portion of the bid is $52,500 and the job should last 5-6 months. I have another job with this same gentleman that won't get started right away but it is a lot less than the other job. I should find something out about the retrofit hopefully sometime this week. As far as leaving my current situation I am hoping by the middle of August for the departure. I need to finish the two jobs I am working on now so I can get paid for them. If I bust my rearend for the rest of the month then August should be very rewarding.

LA as far as boundaries with the business partner, yes it is very frustrating. I do have boundaries with business. My partner has no boundaries. Most times we are not on the same job site so he is left to his own supervision. He is 10 years older than I and in poor health. Most days he does not get out of bed to go to work until late. Then he shows back up at his house early in the afternoon. I have found him sleeping then also. He is worthless right now as a business partner, a co-worker and a friend. Him and I have strained relations now. How bad is he? He was suppose to help me this past Saturday on a job that needs to finish on July 25. Instead he chose to get drunk the night before and pass out in someone's backyard and was unable to help me on Saturday. I did the work myself and probably got more done without him. I could have easily said since he won't work then neither will I. But I don't have that mindset and will do what is needed to finish the job. How frustrating is it to work with this person? More than anyone can imagine. How painful is it? Obviously it is causing problems within my marriage which is very painful to me. Here is a kicker. When I did billing for June him and I worked on separate jobs the entire month of June. I billed $8,000 for my work, his portion of work he did I was only able to bill $1,700. Now when we get paid he is going to feel entitled to half of what we billed. Now I want to have an AO just talking about this. He has done even less work this month. Frustrating is putting it mildly. Am I angry at him? That is also putting it mildly. This is my fault for starting a business with him. I talked with him at great lengths before we started this and told him what I expected. I thought we had an understanding, but obviously I did not understand I would do all the work and he would reap the benefits of it. Friend? Yeah what kind of friend? One I don't have anymore. Now I am late for work.

iam,
I am sorry you feel that way. Last year I made $47,000.00 and EWS made $13,000.00, but in 1998 I made $42,000.00 and EWS made $53,000.00 I had no problems living with that.

Catperson,
I have taught private music lessons every summer for the last 4, however I don't have transportation presently. I do like the idea of volunteering for the animal shelter, however EWS would not and I am looking for ways to be together.

I am not depressed, but I am having trouble with my world spinning. There have been too many changes in the daily habits of EWS and this keeps me on guard and overanxious. The book says I will feel that way for awhile and that I need to cope with it for now and it will be addressed later in sessions. If we start back!

TODAY is PAYDAY for EWS, I hope things go well!

WifeEWSII I would go volunteer with you at an animal shelter.

WifeEWSII...I know this is difficult to deal with the changes I have made with my life. I can't possibly come up with the answers to why some of the changes have gone the way they have. I do feel better about myself. My changes in behavior had to happen in order for our marriage to get any better. You should also know that most of the changes were made with you in mind. For you to peacefully live under the same roof as I do they had to happen. Your concerns about my behavior are valid. What should be the best change is that I am now always putting you first in every action I take. There were way too many times I did not consider that I would hurt you by the actions I chose. I am willing to continue counseling at any point you are. We can POJA the next counselor we see.

Payday went well and a check was collected. The bills will get paid this month with some extra money for any other necessities that may crop up over the next month. I also plan on setting up an Ebay account to get rid of the thousands of dollars worth of equipment that is built up in the garage from the first company I had. Well at least I hope its worth that much now it was before. Plus we need the room in the garage.

I love you WifeEWSII.

MrEWS (I drop the double 11's or II's...is that okay?),

Thank you for your responses. I'm answering them one at a time, though I've read both, 'k?

If you were to have contact with XOW, would you wait for MrsE (look at me shortening your names further, such license), to see it on the cell bill or find it on the email? Somehow, I don't think so. Your new code of honesty doesn't seem to be about how MrsE will or won't respond...seems to be about you doing honesty.

Yes, we verify NC of our spouses. No, we don't wait to reveal. Take it further and ask for alerts from her own honesty, too...and to POJA together, in a quite, connected time, what each of you will/would do if either AP called on the phone, emailed, bumped into at the store...or even if...here's the big if...someone asked you about AP, gave you info about them.

Then you're team-building and not tearing down each other from the past. You're actively not listing past grievances...you are mutually protecting your marriage and each other, AND yourselves from where you were weak before.

Think of a keylogger (which I know you don't have in place) as an aid to obtain truth...isn't to catch in lies...to name and place the enemy...it's for honesty in yourselves and your partners, for your marriage. A way to honor. Our intent matters, when we come together...you guys have been opponents, enemies...in reality, you are not. You're allies. I think financially, emotionally, spiritually and physically you guys are ready to know this again...who you are, how you're on the same team, Marriage, even when you don't feel as if you are...gotta know it.

Act from that knowledge.

Neat thing about acting from our code..."I'm sharing about this contact right now because of my own code of honesty...which really is an act of love as well...for you, our marriage and myself."

LA

Wow! MrsEWS, do you know what this means? It means that you are operating under a set of assumptions that may no longer be valid! He claims to be changing; I think you need to take a leap of faith and take him at his word - go to the animal shelter THIS WEEK and sign up!!!

What else is he seeing with new eyes? What else are you assuming that no longer holds true?

Let me confide something with you that I have noticed being here the last 9 months - it is a VERY common trait for men to go along in ignorant bliss, thinking their marriage is fine. It's not until the wife gets fed up and leaves that the husband opens his eyes and becomes willing to be honest with himself.

I'm not saying MrEWS is perfect; don't know him. I'm saying he claims to be meeting you halfway and making changes that you previously wouldn't have given him credit for, such as volunteering together with you at the animal shelter.

This is an olive branch. Take advantage of it! It may be the first step toward resolution for you.

Replying to MrE's business post:

I believe you had boundaries and your business partner didn't have boundaries. I don't believe you enforced your boundaries consistently. Doesn't make either one of you awful, 'k? Means in relationships, having boundaries can cause a lot of friction, distrust and resentment when we don't enforce...especially in relationships with those with no boundaries around themselves.

I had false boundaries and real ones in my life and still I cheated, lied, did a lot of damage. I share this with you for my own clarity, as well, because boundaries are often the very thing for much conflict in our lives.

False boundaries...I had what would appear to be a great work ethic...like you, someone who showed up, worked hard until the goal was accomplished. I didn't do this because I had a boundary of consideration and honesty, though. It's because I had a self-image and a fear of others seeing or judging me as lazy, unreliable, bad or wrong. So not a real boundary and no enforcement of it...meaning, if I called in sick, well, others did that, didn't they? If I delayed or procrastinated, well, I'd justify it to myself, and still keep that self-image boundary of "But I'm a hard worker" in my head. Sounds like your business partner, perchance?

In reality, I was erratically unreliable, though accomplished for praise...and when no praise, back to unreliable (not quite that clear-cut--I'm relying on your perception to fill it in). So, no rock bottom, really, to see where I didn't have a real boundary and no enforcements in place to help me keep to my boundary. Just an image.

What real boundaries did I live by? Oh, definitely held myself to not getting arrested (though I feared being arrested under mistaken identity a lot); not murdering or stealing; no hit and runs; no burglary or robbery...the big wide boundaries actually few of us do...we have to violate a lot of little boundaries first to get there, really...in our average lives. Again, from fear moreso than my moral beliefs. Didn't have to enforce any boundaries for I didn't cross those.

I forget now what book it was in that I read near DDay, that said, "If you really look at the 10 commandments, they are all against stealing." Hmmm. Putting God first before all others...you steal his place when you prioritize others in it (including my own self-image, btw); I won't go through them all...reading them through with this perspective changed a lot for me and helped me to make real boundaries and determine progressive enforcements.

For me.

For we can't control our partners (in marriage, with our children, in business or friendships, or with strangers) have boundaries or enforcements. Not in our control. A lot of conflict is holding others to our morals (as universal) which actually thwarts us from enforcing our own around us.

For instance, in your new venture with this former coworker and future business partners, you can inform him of your boundaries, tell him of your predetermined and progressive enforcements...and include in contractual language the morals clause to opt at. Which includes stealing...stealing time (when we don't show for work on time or leave early), even when he steals it from himself (hung over); same for taking more than his share of pay for non-performance due to ill health or no-shows. See, when you enforce that around yourself...you gotta get there on time, do the work, not leave early and if you must (for your marriage!) then not take the pay for that time. See how this works? It respects the partner's choices, isn't parenting or condemning...says you understand when another person chooses to steal.

I did this, btw, with one of my businesses...I had an employee who left work early without telling me until I caught her. She was shopping instead of working and she said, "Well, I have to do that for the Lord. I have choir practice every afternoon, so if I didn't do my shopping during work hours, I wouldn't have time." I asked her, "Which do you think God really honors in your life--your commitment to sing in his choir or steal from your employer?" Honestly, she had never once thought of it as stealing. She didn't leave work again, btw.

You caught yourself with why you cannot steal--if he wasn't going to do the work, why should you? That's the signal! False boundaries are when you base your choices on others' choices...and you didn't do that. The old thought came through...we're like that...our brains replaying the old stuff...and that's important in the justification process, btw...to permit that which will harm us; to allow us to cross our own boundaries.

Enforcing boundaries takes predetermination...it means saying, "I must state when my boundary has been crossed." So you call business partner (like on that Saturday) as soon as he hasn't shown up, and say, "Hey, you crossed my boundary. I'm doing this today by myself and will reduce your pay from the whole job accordingly." That's it. First enforcements are stating what the crossing was of what boundary, and what you will do.

See, your business partner cannot feel good about his own boundaries when he continually crosses them...there's no self-respect in stealing...we know that early on. So in past enabling, being generous, concerned, etc., you did harm to your business partner...and I'm sure he encouraged you to do so...for excusing his own boundary crossings, failing himself and his family, marriage...that was his perspective, his POV...and you took it in you, didn't you? Would you consider you considered your self-image at stake, early, for how you were viewed, how he viewed you? Usually we do this under our own radar until we get really clear on the difference between self-image and true self.

We hear excuses as excusing because we do the same in our head...it's how our hearts hold our marriages as number one and our actions put it fourth place. Another great signal, btw...there are explanations and excuses--they are different. There are explanations for our choices...our actions remain indelible...cannot be excused. Respecting others' choices, choosing the perspective they chose their actions, keeps US knowing we choose ours...we stop hearing in our own heads, "I had no choice. I had to" all those hads...feeling trapped, limited, less than we really are. Often results in us believing we were not, are not and never will be enough.

Fantasy machine, isn't it? All from choosing to not respect others and ourselves as humans who choose...who do and not do from choice.

Next boundary signal is entitlement...when you think you deserve respect it means you aren't giving it. Turned my mind inside out...yet, in the last four years, I've come to firmly believe it. It's a signal for us, about us and our choices. Not really about others. Your partner cannot be entitled to steal. Put it in that perspective. What he needs is respect, not money. Get out of the way of his consequences...you are a fair, reasonable and compassionate man. Love him for the equal he is and his choices these past few months. Neglect a man's respect at your own peril...for you will neglect your own...eats at our self-respect. Enabling as generosity means we will excuse and enable ourselves, as well.

All this is a pep talk from me to you...boundary enforcements are an act of love and respect to self (reminds you who you really are, and were, all along), and what you do to yourself, you will do to others. God's perfect and inherent (unchangeable) two-way street. You aren't mean, horrid, bad or wrong for enforcing boundaries. You may have been taught to be generous to your fellow man, take care of him when he won't take care of himself...check that "won't"...when we volunteer our actions, our time, our presence, we are giving of our being. The money in the past you gave, consider it thoroughly and find the place inside you which it really came from.

Not to bash--to know yourself better. The better we do, the more signals we see for what they really are...and our shame transforms, which is redemption, healthy pride and respect...of our own making. Not through others. Then we are finally free.

You're on that road in every way, MrE. Doesn't mean the future will be what you plan for...God is in your lives and may have other plans...we don't control outcomes...and no one, through any action, other than yourself, can take away your self-respect. Remember that.

Another boundary...you're not allowed to assume anything, from anyone, at any time...you may assume the sun will rise and set, that Monday will come...your basic assumptions not about people are real. The rest, haven't been. No assuming understandings, integrity (even your own)...ask to know and know what you don't know right now. Clarity of living. Make written agreements as your own boundary, to hold yourself to with clarity...simply stated, with that new clause. Say it's for working on yourself, changing your life. Do it for the smallest of things...love notes to your wife can be like that...agreements with your DDs17...practice contracting...make a six-month marriage contract...expand and brainstorm how you can change more than your financial ways...step by step. Your marriage can give you insight into your business and vice versa.

Partnering is partnering.

Treat your friends like you would your business coworkers...as the humans they are...respect they choose every moment, action, word of their lives. It's about them, for them to live up to or not. Not about you. That's a boundary. Another one I told MrsE..."I will not do that which I will resent." You cannot pay him half of what you receive because you don't steal...not even from yourself. You've paid for your prior assumptions, hopes and blind trust. Now, you won't. Otherwise, you'll have to do amends...name what you did to violate which boundary, why you did it (will involve justification and self-deception), why and how you won't do it again...including knowing the extent of the damage that rippled from the choice...to your wife, kids, grandchildren....whomever. Consequences just keep going, btw.

And there are upward spirals. You may have been so close to downward ones (I was) that you haven't experienced the upward ones. They are there. They are marvelous. Abundance.

They begin as the others do...with one step. A new one. Each new one you choose to do...different choices...each day leads there...for you lay out a new life experience...an opportunity for others and for God to rain abundance all around you...and you're already standing in it, I promise.

Seems to me you're self-healing...long process...done a lot of injury to self who was innocent...maybe because you tried really hard to protect self-image, who was the perp?

LA

MrsE and MrE...

To reply to your post, MrsE, from another thread...no, honestly, I am not a counselor. I may sound like one because I quote our MC a lot, and many self-help books (like Dr. Harley's). All of this was learned because I'd hit rock bottom...my way wasn't working, hadn't worked for decades. I'm sharing with you because this helps me hold to my boundaries, enforce them, and remember, know more about myself, too.

And you both choose to read, consider, ponder, let whatever resonates within your chest and share with each other...know your half--not me, you both. You're in a world of change right now, inside and out. You are not alone. Please know you have the power to not take in, not consider, ponder or share. It's how we keep to our old ways and hurt more. You're choosing differently.

Kudos to great ideas (like eBay) something you both can do together. To answered prayers in this pay day...to knowing each other as new today because you're making different choices...so you are truly new.

And embrace your choice to love each other as your own...for it is...came out loud and clear in MrE's post that I can see...celebrate yourselves.

LA

LA,

Even though its early in the morning and I had to read your posts multiple times I fully understand what you are saying. I have a full set of boundaries. The problem is I allow people to cross those boundaries without consequences. Just as I have allowed my business partner to cross those boundaries. With my business partner when he crossed those boundaries I chose to also cross my own boundaries and follow his. This is why I am in the mess that I am. When I followed his boundaries it broke down everything I believed in. When I allowed myself to follow his boundaries it finally led to me hitting rock bottom. It also confirmed why my business partner is in the shape he is and why he will continue to be in the shape he is in. At this point in our business and friendship I am unwilling to enforce those boundaries. Basically I have given up on him. Telling everyone he is worthless was less than admirable of me. As a human we all have worth. And so does he to whomever or himself he is worthy. But to me he has no worth and I choose not to try to find his worth to me because he has also chosen to not value me and my family. I tend to allow my actions to define my boundaries with people outside of my family. If they choose to cross my boundaries I am not one to verbally express my disdain. Instead I allow body language to dictate to the boundary crosser that I am unhappy with them. And when that happens my body language speaks loud and clear and most people understand that from me. Hence, why I am constantly labeled as uncommunicative. I have heard all my life I don't communicate with people. How true it is. I still do that and it is going to be a long row to hoe to get all the weeds out. My business partner is also hearing my non-communication of how unhappy I am with him. I know because yesterday he tried to validate his unwillingness to do the right thing. I heard all the excuses from him yesterday as to why he can not complete a whole days worth of work. I need a helper, its to hot, he doesn't feel well, the people on the job site are not cooperative, and on and on. Its more of the same rhetoric I have heard from him over and over through the years. I am tired of excuses they don't get the job done.

Praise is something I enjoy also for my accomplishments. I am guilty of also pouting when I feel I deserve it and don't receive it. Although I will trudge on, it comes with consequences to those around me with anger and resentment. When it is not warranted. But, I am also guilty of not giving praise when it is warranted. I am trying to change this about me. It is a bad trait I have formed through my life.

So, yes, I have a lot of work still left to do on myself. I am working on this aspect of my life more than anything. This will make me feel good and I can see others around me are feeling better about my changes. My kids told me this yesterday so I received some validation for the changes I have made. Even my W is validating my changes.

MrE,

Long time, no write to you. I'm sorry.

First, I hear you saying my posts take multiple reads for you. I appreciate your effort on my behalf. And you nailed you have boundaries and don't enforce. See this in all areas of your life...boundaries go around you, what you hold yourself to...so if you don't enforce when you cross them, you will not enforce when others cross them.

With the AO's you have begun to enforce, you've chosen a new perspective and set of beliefs and permissions. Way to go! (You said you don't self-admire...begin now...it's part of the reason you permitted yourself to act out because you also acted in...you want balance? Self-congratulate when you hold yourself to your boundaries. Helps you to hold others to them when they cross yours.) All ties together...all part of God's upward spiral for you, MrE.

I'm bringing over a quote from MrsE's thread from your post...it ties into your post above. Again, you have great posters helping you on the mechanics of your choices right now regarding business, marriage, etc. I'm addressing what's behind the choices, previously and present. Same stuff, all affecting the other...all part of the whole, 'k?

It's harder, btw. LOL.


Can you see your manipulation here? To get your partner to act better, do better, not do...not in your control. Go to honesty...if you were partnering, then your name goes on the door, the accounts, just as your partner's does. Ask Retread--this is my belief so you can experience a radically honest life. In reading your post, is that the conclusion you came to, also? Don't overlook your MO (modus operandi)...your belief that if you set up, lay the plans just right, you'll be safe.

You're not safe and you are. No one else can make you a success or a failure. Only in your control. Your choices. And you are safe when you hold yourself to your code; you are not when you life from the belief you can get others to think, do, say, believe, share, perceive or view as you want them to do. Even in their own best interest. You can use that in business, in partnering in your marriage, parenting and friendships.


And now you know. You learned. Expensive and valuable lesson.

What would have been a alternative for "bailing" though by not having your name on anything, you had that opportunity? You could not have bailed had you been a recognized half-owner, correct? Think through more than the all or nothing...the staying/leaving...there are fifty other choices in between...get to know them...they are part of your boundaries and will clarify enforcements...as predetermined and progressive.


Sounds like ownership but isn't. "I chose to hang in there with him because this was my reasoning, my thinking" and ferret out your justifications...get to know if you did so from fear, where your focus was...not to deepen the fault...to know yourself better as you were...because you are different today, 'k? Better you know and recognize how and what you thought, better you'll get your signals today when you begin thinking again in that manner. Please share so I can tie it together, too, to your marriage.



I'm serious, just sounded funny to myself. Happens a lot.

Taking blame in marriage is as deadly as making resentment. You are inherently responsible for your half of every relationship you have ever had or will have on this planet. Accepting that truth goes a long way to acting from clarity, IME.


I see you put yourself into a paradox...you were partners in fact, and acted off and on as if you weren't. You could have put the payroll service into effect, met and hired the accountant...and did you learn that when you ask repeatedly, you are signalling yourself, not the other person? Repeating violates boundaries, means we aren't enforcing...great signal. It's for us and about us...not what others are doing or not doing.

Don't repeat...it's a poor substitute for doing or not doing. Own your power and limits. You straddled the line in this business venture, created duality and suffered from it. I see your focus all over your partner...just as I see MrsE's focus all over you. How's that working for you?

Please hear me NOT as blaming, saying "Shoulda Woulda Coulda" at all. I'm asking you to view why you did what you did as being about you...what you permit yourself to do and not do...where you have real ownership and false ownership...one is true self and the other is to only serve self-image (how others view you and how you view yourself). To know yourself better...where you have feared knowing yourself before. When you know and understand, you will make different choices and experience your life very differently.

The cycles end this way. I believe you truly want to end the repetition you've been caught in...and the list is long. Was for me. To break these decades old cycles takes examination of the whys behind the choices...even as you now choose differently on faith.

Takes both.

Would you consider going to Alanon meetings with MrsE? I believe it would help you with your focus on your AO's, partnering, and breaking enmeshment; so you can see even more folks struggling as you have, finding their new way, too. You are not alone...it's not all on your shoulders (can't be, you're limited as human being), and a support group (which you can view Alanon as being addicted control freaks if you aren't getting why I'm suggesting it).


What if you committed to taking a job as an employee for a competitor for two years only...stated when hired...and no non-complete clause in your contract...where you trained one person and managed them, then added another and another...however many could be done in the two years for the highest salary possible? (Ask Retread, I'm doing in my imagination where he/she does in real life.) Enough to pay off past business debts (very important for your amends), marital debts, and enough cash to begin your new business at the close of the second year.

Gives you time to get your board together, to get know yourself and practice boundary enforcements, act from your code instead of reacting...and save your marriage. An act of atonement putting your marriage first, above all else, and to do good in your field, actually in the field, tone up even more managerial experience and challenges (separate field in itself); and time to live what you are learning without the make or break, success or fail stress?

To learn we don't give up on others...we give up our desire to control them...human being to human being...both hands on reality (our actions and theirs); hands off their stuff. Seeing how humans do and don't do...not taking blame in or trying to dish it out (gets in the way of connection and it's fantasy, not reality). Clearing the way to hear God's voice in your soul, what resonates, what is blocked, where you flounder and where you soar better...within you, defined by you and no one else.

Part of the package could be full benefits, including counseling within the medical package...where you feel well compensated, admired and appreciated for negotiating two years of your life (small time for the length of it overall), and you can work on catching yourself in the ways you operate under your own radar by working as a real employee, a team member, without the responsibility of running the whole company.


Learn to use what ticks you off...to look inside yourself and see how much is in you, signalling you to look and see, understand and own...to free you. To get your focus back on you, where you have power. See your own rhetoric, excuses (not explanations), non-communication, factoring in happiness instead of boundaries into partnership, not cooperating to get...giving to get, tit for tat...and free yourself from who you are not.

I need a time frame, btw, on your A's and when you told MrsE of them, for the recovery timeline. Appreciate your help and thank you for holding yourself to posting, reading, even many times...for what you do for others you will do for yourself. And to yourself. We are all under the same inviolate two-way street.

LA