My husband and I have been together for 24 years - and 18 months ago I discovered he had (is having?) an emotional affair with a colleague (the first time he has cheated on me).

I first thought something wasn't quite right after he explained to me that he was losing a very good colleague from his team - he explained how pretty she was and how much he would miss her...all with tears in his eyes. Later, he started bringing home CD's and poems that she had given him (love songs, love poems that she had written). He had also given her CD's (not sure what else). Then the lies started...when my grandmother passed away (who I was very close too) I called him at his work dinner function, but he was with her and did'nt come home for a few hours after I called. I also found him one afternoon in the garage on the mobile phone to her telling her that I don't have her spirit...(??What on earth does that mean??)When I confronted him about it all he would say is "I can't remember" - that has been a standard line for a while. I was very upset and threatened to move out of home. He promised me that he had cut off contact with her - but told me she was a decent person who had interesting things to say and "a good friend". She told him he was her best friend.

1 month later when I was overseas organising accommodation for our forthcoming job transfer. I discovered quite by accident through our joint account the number of calls that he had made to her at all hours of the day and night (360+ in 3 months...surely a recored??). Before I confronted him, I sent a text asking if he had contact with her....he replied emphatically "NO!" The phone records showed a different story - and the lies were becoming regular. I called him from overseas telling him about the lie and that I wasn't returning home that I was starting a new life in a new country - much emotion and tears..I did return but now I think it was a mistake.

24 hours before we were to move overseas I discovered a love letter her wrote to her - describing that she was his spirit and soul mate. He also told her that he had a "knot in his heart" and apologised to her for his "indecision" and that the move overseas would help him "sort things out". He told me it was a "good bye" letter - to me it was a letter asking his lover to wait for him. He told me he didn't give her the letter but did write her a goodbye message (he wouldn't tell me what he said).

We have now moved overseas - and he is working; I am seeking work. I have read the book "Surviving an affair", which reads like my own diary! I asked him to read it - probably the wrong thing to do - he continues to deny an affair and he won't read the book.

I thought that being in a new country would help in overcoming the past and allow us to start again. He has a new mobile number and email address (he won't give me access to his emails, so I suspect he is still in contact with her). I no longer trust him. He has also put in for a transfer back home to the organisation where she works - but he assures me it isn't because of her. He knows I am very unhappy about that.

My emotions are very raw - and being in a new country where I don't know anybody I am struggling to deal with the hurt and devastation that he has caused. I thought we had a great marriage, but also realise now there are some improvements I need to make.

I now feel that I am the one trying to make an effort in following the "rules of marriage" - but he doesn't want to face up to what has happened. Am I wasting my time?

I am a very private person, so none of my friends and family know of this - so I hope that somebody out there has some advice on how I can get through this. Should I stay with him or go back home and rebuild my without him?

Hi veryupset,

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry you have a need to be here, but this is the best place for you to get advice, to have the best chance of recovering your marriage. Have you read the articles here, especially about Plan A and Plan B? (Those might be in SAA also, not sure.)

Keep posting here, and read all you can. Read the articles, and try reading some of the other posts too. You'll want to work out the details of a good Plan A by asking questions here. There are some really good posts, they may be "pinned" to the top of the "Just Found Out" forum. Basically you want to gather evidence, expose the affair to friends, relatives and coworkers, eliminate all your LBs (Love Busters) and meet as many of his ENs (emotional needs) as you can.

*hugs* You CAN get through this. Many others have been where you are now, you are not alone.

I just saw the last paragraph you wrote:

You must expose the affair. You must tell friends, relatives, and his coworkers - anyone who has any influence at all over him. I know you don't want to - do it anyway. Trust The Plan.

Read the threads of abandonedwith3kids and lildoggie. They both fought against exposing. Now they both have exposed, and although they have vastly different results, both of them are glad they exposed.

By keeping the secret, you are an accessory(?) (you facilitate?) the affair. I mean, you help it to continue, and/or you shelter your Wayward Husband (WH) from consequences. I know you feel embarrassed and ashamed, but YOU are not the one who should feel that way. So expose.

Also, it's your choice but I suggest you stay with him for now and fight for the marriage. You have a reason to leave him if you want, but I think if that's what you wanted, you wouldn't be here. So give it a try, give Plan A (and maybe Plan B) a try. You can always leave later. But you can't necessarily do it the other way around - leave now and decide later to come back and fight for the marriage. Go ahead and give it a try now, so you'll be able to say you gave it your best.

Hi veryupset! Sorry you're here, but it is the best place to be. My H & I had been together 26 yrs, Med 18 when he went nuts. We have been in recovery for 4 1/2 yrs. My quick advice is this. Realize that every word out of your WH's mouth is lies and fog talk. The soulmate/BF thing is a sure sign of someone in LA LA Land. Next, I hate to say this, but there's a good chance this is a PA also. Most WSs try to deny that fact.

Finally, whatever you do, don't allow him to cake eat. Be loving, show him what he'll be losing out on, but set your bounderies. I also am a very private person. Hardly anyone knows about H's A. However, I immediately told him OW had to be out of our lives, PERIOD, or else he was out. And if he was out everyone would know the truth. Hey, if their R was so beautiful then nothing to worry about, right?

Read here, get strong, and then do what you need to do to hopefully save your M. Look at your H as an alien. It helps. HUGS!

I thought that moving countries would make things a little easier - and I suppose in some ways it has. He has talked about how hard it is being away from her - but assures me there has been no contact since we moved (6 weeks). He told me I could have his p/w to email...but my response was "no - I need to trust him", so I declined. I guess I should have said yes...

I don't know how to deal with my emotions - heart broken and loss of trust/respect in our marriage. I have read (and reread) the 4rules to guide marital recover and make an effort to follow these, but there are times when I just break down. Is this "normal"? I can't seem to maintain the strength and often get resentful that I am the one that has to change...HOw have others' dealt with this?

Also - I thought that we both should follow the 4 rules - so asked WH to read Surviving an Affair.....is this the right thing to do??

YES, you need his password! Why on earth should you be trusting him when he hasn't earned the trust back yet?

There's a popular fallacy that we automatically OWE trust. Would you trust someone who just intentionally wrote you a bad check?

Be vigilant;you owe it to yourself. In fact you are doing him a favor as well, to help hold him accountable.

You are actually in a much better position than I think you realize. The solution was to get him AWAY from the OW so he could withdraw. You have done that! Now, the trick is cut off their long distance communications and attract him back into the marriage.

Go back and ask for his password. Ask to help you RELAX by showing you there is no more contact. Before you do that, though, I would slap a keylogger on his computer, go download eblaster at www.spectorsoft.com.

He is so obviously in contact and if you get it out in the open you can help him WITHDRAW.

If he moves back to work at her company your marriage will not make it. I would make it clear to him. The only way for his affair to end is complete no contact.

I would hand him Jonathans letter and see if you can him to be honest with you. [can't find it, be right back with it]

NotCoping,

I'm so sorry you are in the position you are in. I've been there myself. One thing you really need to understand is that no matter what kind of person you think your husband is, people in affairs LIE, repeatedly. The only way to stop the situation is to expose the lies, both for yourself by uncovering the real truth, and to friends and family. It sounds so extreme but it is a necessity.

When I found out about my husbands affair, he lied and told me it was only emotional and qualified. It took several months before I found out it was physical and he was still lying to me and in contact with the OW. I wish I had listened to others advice and dug to find the truth. I wish I hadn't continued to be so trusting. But once I did find out the whole truth, I exposed to anyone and everyone...his work, my family, some friends. This brought him to his knees and he knew he could no longer play this game. He became wholely and completely dedicated to me and realized what an [censored] he had been.

My advice is for you not to trust that this was purely emotional. Perhaps it is, but I would not believe that until you've dug in further. Put a keylogger on his computer and find out the truth. He still appears to be lying. You deserve the truth, the whole truth. Find it, and then expose. After this you can determine by his reaction whether your marriage is worth saving. I believe that everyone deserves a partner who is fully dedicated to them alone. You deserve better.

After exposure, every supposed emotion my husband felt for this other woman flew out the window immediately. She was annoying the hell out of him more and more over time but he was so fogged out that it didn't hit him until it was all exposed. Your husband could go through a withdrawal but you need to have contact stop so that that can even happen. He needs to make a decision and stop holding you on the line. You deserve better.

I just checked in to see if you'd posted since yesterday, and I see that you are in very capable hands. Most everything I was about to say has just been said by keep and Mel. (And they are more expert on the plans to recover from an affair than I am.)

So let me add my vote to saying yes, you definitely need the password, for all the reasons already stated; and yes, you are in a very good and encouraging position, by being in a different country from the OW. The idea is to break off all contact with OW; so being in a different country is extremely convenient for you! They could still be in contact via internet and phone though.

Quick, let me say DON'T INVITE WH HERE (to MB) YET.

Because, we are now telling you to snoop. Doesn't do much good if he reads about it here, does it?

Snooping is fighting to save your M. You aren't being malicious. You have a right to know if your WH is in contact. That's all.

Install the keylogger. Get passwords. Check phone records.


Yes, this is unfair but it's how life is, the BS has to do most of the work at least at the beginning, because you are the one who is fighting for the M. Read some of the threads by other BS's to see how they handle things. Lildoggie has been doing an excellent job, and she's gone through (going through?) waves of resentment, but she's heading toward a success story. I'm sure Mel and keep can point you toward others. Keep your mind focused on the potential payoff - a marriage recovered and better than before.


I'll let someone else answer that, since I've only read the affair stuff online, haven't read SAA. But don't bring WH here, not yet!

Do I understand that he is saying he's willing to work to rebuild the marriage and recover from the affair? Has he written a NC letter?

What do keep and Mel think about not telling at least the closest family members in this sitch?

upset, here is JOSEPH'S Letter [whoops! ], but if I were you, I would first do some snooping and get the goods. Then go to him and - this is real important - TELL HIM, don't ASK, that you know all about his affair and throw out some key facts to demonstrate you know. BS often get tangled up in this futile dance of trying to make the WS ADMIT something they both already know is true. You don't need his admission to know the truth.

But before you do this, I would start snooping. Bug his computer, tap your phone, etc so you have the infrastructure in place to watch him in case he tries to go underground.

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

I would also strongly suggest phone counseling with Steve Harley. He is darn good at what he does and will assess your situation and give you a PLAN to get yourself out of this. He costs $185, I think, and he won't waste a minute of your time. He is worth every penny, IMO.

Thanks everybody - having not spoken to anybody about this previously, I must say I feel a little better about having others' to "talk too". "A problem shared is a problem halved" as they say.

I understand the advice on asking for his password...so I will ask him for that.

He did write her a "farewell" letter - which I discovered when I was cleaning our study for the move o/s. It remains etched in my memory and I found it 24 hrs before our move. He told her that:
- "he was sorry to her and her family for his insecurities and indecision"
- "he had a knot in his heart and would always remember her by the music they shared and sunrises" (note: they use to phone each other in the morning when there was a beautiful sunrise. He was always with me physically.)
- "he loved talking to her and considered her his spiritual and sole mate"
- "he hoped that by moving o/s that he would sort things out"
- "he liked to imagine her on the front of a ship sailing into the sunrise looking forward to the future".

I confronted him with the letter - he told me he didn't give it to OW; he said felt stupid when he reread it and hand wrote another note instead. He refused to tell me what he said in his other letter. Apprently OW sms'd him back and wished him goodluck for the future. OW had become dependant on him - so I strongly doubt that she has kept away.

I will get his p/word. I already have a lot of evidence (phone records etc); if I find that he has continued contact, do I tell him that I am going to expose him, or do I just do it??

No, you do not forewarn him. Is this OW married? When he says "family" who does he mean? Has he met her parents? What do you know about her?

You just expose the affair with no warning at all. If you let him know ahead, they will spin their stories that you are a crazy, jealous wife.

Also he needs to write a no contact letter to her, telling her the affair was a mistake, he loves his wife and will be working on the marriage, and that he wants no contact with her for any reason forever. Then you read and send it to her.

upset, BEFORE you ask him for that password, can you sneak a keylogger on his computer? You aren't likely to get too far with only a password because he will just delete emails. You need MORE than a password and you need it in place before you ask him for this.

I have just installed the software on the laptop at home, but I can't do that for his work laptop. I can however access his work emails from home (remotely), so I can check his work emails at home.

What do I know about OW? She lives at home (not married) and the "family" he referred to were her parents/brother. I believe this started by OW confiding in WH some issues her parents were having - father is manic depressive and had left family home. OW wanted WH to council mother/father to reunite. Apparently WH refused, and tells me he never met family....so not real sure what he was apologising to her family for....??? He tells me he tried to stop contact with OW several times, but OW kept calling (and he kept taking her calls).

Yep! Also, it feels sooooo good to know there's a definite plan, and you are taking definite action, not just sitting there being a victim of what happens.


This was NOT a NC (No Contact) letter!!!!!!! A NC letter is something the WS writes to the OP, with the intent to protect and start the healing process for the BS. It MUST NOT have the intent of protecting the feelings of the OP. The BS should read it and get to approve it, and see it being mailed. It should express concern and remorse for harm done to the BS and family!!! Showing more concern for the OP than for the BS is bad for several reasons - a slap in the face to you the BS, leaving the door open to resuming the A, leaving good cozy feelings with the OP, etc.

If he is serious about trying to work on the M, a real NC letter is the first item of business IMHO. If one of the experts here says otherwise, go with what they recommend.


Yes, like believer said, just do it. And do it all at once if possible. You certainly don't want him spinning the story to his advantage - saying the M was over a long time ago, or you're a lunatic, or a raving jealous maniac, etc.

GOOD. Can you not access his work laptop?


I bet he has met her family and that perhaps at one time they were planning on being together. Do you have her home phone # and address? The reason I ask is because if you see evidence of renewed contact, I would expose to her family. That will RUIN any future prospect of him integrating into her family when they know your H is an adulterer.


How does he handle it when she does? I would discuss this and have a plan in place. If he even says one word to her when she calls, he is encouraging her. He should hang up when she does. Will he send a no contact letter that is written by you both?

Do you know for a FACT that she knows he is married?

Yep, that's why the NC letter must be the way we say, and not all gushy and protective of her feelings. Not mean, but firm, and with the right priority - protecting YOUR feelings.

I forgot I had something to say about him "watching" sunrises with her. I think it was schoolbus who wrote about this, not sure. But apparently, talking to someone first thing in the morning, especially soon after you wake up, reinforces a feeling of bonding with that person. Him talking to her while they watched the sunrise together was very very very bad for your marriage. Certainly a NC letter should not reminisce lovingly about that experience, and leave open the possibility of them "watching" sunrises together, remotely or not.

And you might want to include in your Plan A, some first-thing-in-the-morning conversation. It seems this was a need that she was meeting. You want to step in and start meeting this need.

*hugs* I know it doesn't seem fair that you have to do the heavy work. But you are in a good strong position right now, you're doing great.

I suspect that he has met her family - why apologise to them in the letter if he hadn't met them? OW definately knows that he is married - apparently she asks (asked?) about me quite regularly. I have no evidence, but my instinct tells me that she goes after married, successful men...no evidence just instinct. She also signed up to my business mailing list in Nov 2007, which I only realised 2 months ago and removed her from it.

My husband thought he had been followed one day whilst driving to work and accused me of putting a PI onto him. I didn't. I do suspect that she did, as it was about a time that he tried to stop contact with her.

Even after he has told her to stop calling him, she continues to call; crying and telling him she is infatuated with him; he is her best friend. He just keep taking her calls. He agrees that she had become dependant upon him, but he refused to stop taking calls.

I never made contact with her, but know where she lives and works. She is also on "facebook". Sometimes I felt like contacting her directly. Is this something people do?