Fiori,
I'm sorry - I know how it feels to have someone else in the middle of your relationship. I'm going to give your husband the benefit of the doubt because he has continued to express that he wants to move forward and he is willing to do whatever it takes, even changing jobs. Your in a difficult situation because the woman is a coworker. As hard as it is keep one thing in mind - men think practical and women think emotions. Your definition of zero contact and his definition don't match up - so this is an area you have both to work on (communicating but more importantly listening to what the other person is saying). I want you to do this with your husband: Tell him your picking the topic "zero contact" and you are going to tell him three things about how you feel about it (do not use the word "You" at all - it's about how you feel not what he's done) Then ask him to repeat what you said. Have him do the same on the same topic and you repeat back to him what he said. After that you both do some conflict resolution. How can you agree on a resolution that you both will be happy with. And please do this when you are both calm!! Good luck.

This is my H. I don't know if this will be helpful but...

We recently counseled with Jennifer and I cannot sing her praises enough. She ascertained very quickly that one of my top ENs was O&H and my Hs was Admiration.

She spoke to him for a VERY long time...about 40 minutes...about EPs and the importance of O&H...and gave him an assignment to come talk to me nightly after work to discuss how he exercised EPs at work, not only to make me more comfortable, but to help him work on being O&H.

She worked with me on LB's. I didn't realize I was doing a lot of DJs the way that I was communicating with him and it was preventing him from being more O&H with me...

This has helped us tremendously. Clearly, I know your goal is NC but since you are waiting for that to happen, I think counseling with the Harleys could help you tremendously to preserve the love you have for each other. Hang in there...

I am so bummed it's a weekend because I need help.
Here's a brief summary...
H got in the shower Thursday morning. It's been a while so I took a peek at his blackberry with email. The phone log is clean of OW and so are any email. Until, I open one from another guy. Much to my surprise, the original email was started by OW to this John guy. H is John's boss. H has NOTHING work related to do with OW and they are no longer in same location. But, a series of 5 emails go back and forth between OW, John and two others. Because H knows what they are talking of and he's John's boss, John included him on the email exchange. So, OW did not directly get in touch but had specific instructions to contact H in no way, direct or indirect.
So, it was not fun. The heart pounds and I don't eat for the entire day. This is great for my diet.
Well, H and I realize early on that we are not really good at talking about this without a fight, so we begin an all day email exchange. This is good because we're able to really exchange ideas and there are no 'tones' or meanness ...One thing H is often irritated about is that I have these ideas that he needs to do this or that but I never have a plan to help him come to a resolution. So, here's my plan I offered him when he got home.
1. Speak to John directly. Explain to him that you've had trouble in the past with OW and would prefer to not be included on any future email exchanges where she is involved.
2. Send very cryptic email to OW: Please refrain from including me on any and all email distribution lists from this date forward. I appreciate your cooperation on this matter.
3. Hurry up and get a new job.

Ok, so now we're at a point of discussion. Sometimes heated. But, last conversation was that H would send the email to OW during work hours and from a work email address.

What do you think? Should we simply let it go or send the email? Do we wake a sleeping giant or are my suspicions correct that she's beginning to crack open the door and test the water to see how she can slowly ingratiate herself back into his life...even if beginning with work?

It sounds to me like you both are in agreement of what no contact means and have found a way to communicate that works for you - bravo! I say yes let H make it clear to OW that there should be no contact unless it is emergency work related and have him define emergency so she is clear. You H needs to do whatever it takes to restore your trust. I feel he realizes this. Sometimes men are slower at getting things (sorry if offend men out there). I know its hard but don't let this woman have control or power over your relationship. By focusing on what she does or doesn't do is giving her power. Always keep the focus on what your husband can and cannot do. It's ashame he has to find a new job, especially if he's happy where he is. He could become miserable somewhere else. Just think hard of the consequences of all your decisions. I was very shortsighted in the heat of the first few months of Dday. You've got a good husband who is committed to restoring your M.

Hi Fiori,
A question for you and H:
Did the FOW initiate the e-mail to your FWH or did John initiate the e-mail?

If John initiated the e-mail and since your H supervises John, he could tell John that he does not want to receive forwarded e-mail messages that originate with FOW. Even though your FWH supervises John, that is the price paid--no oversight or involvement in projects that involve FOW in any way.

If FOW initiated the e-mail to your FWH on her own initiative or due to some corporate protocol of inclusion of supervisors--FOW's supervisor should direct her to exclude FWH from any e-mail protocol. Again, the price FWH pays for the EA.

To me, it would be best if FWH does not contact FOW. She has a supervisor, let the supervisor make the contact. Again, this is the price your FWH pays for his conduct with OW in a corporate environment. I recall that your FWH received some assistance from a fellow supervisor in getting FOW moved out of his area of supervision. So some individual at your H's level of supervision within the corporation is aware of the situation. This individual can be enlisted to advise OW, or it may mean that some other supervisor of OW needs to be enlisted--whoever directly supervises OW should be the one to tell her to not use standard corporate protocol, or whatever, and to not include your FWH in any correspondence.

Also, I do not understand a few things about this situation:

I do not understand what you or your FWH means by: "One thing H is often irritated about is that I have these ideas that he needs to do this or that but I never have a plan to help him come to a resolution."

Are you saying that your H is saying that YOU should be the one to figure this corporate e-mail thing out??? I don't get that. Can't he figure it out??? Also, he knew that her name appeared in his e-mail log.... To me, it is a no brainer that he should have told you about this. You should not have found that in his log. He should have told you. He knew it would be an emotional hurt for you to find it.

If FOW initiated that e-mail and you found it in John's series of e-mails, that means that your FOW deleted e-mail from FOW. Is that what happened? Again, if that is what happened, it was way out of line for your H to do that.

I know that some of the issues you describe in your e-mails remind me of my relationship with my FWH. So I may be reading in to your issues more than is there or just misunderstanding your issues with your FWH because I am looking at them through my "marriage filter" so to speak.

But I am concerned about your marital situation because the FOW is still in the picture in that she works in the same corporation as your FWH and is removed from your marriage by only the fact that she works in a building across the street and by the fact that your FWH no longer directly supervises her.

I understand the situation that your FWH has a good job that is difficult for him to leave. His job market is limited due to his level of competence. At the same time, I just get the sense that at least to some extent, he is just laying low about the whole EA and hoping that with time, you will "get over it" and he can continue working at this job where he is VERY comfortable. He does NOT want to leave this corporation. The problem with that is that he is really underestimating the insult he gave you by his EA.

If I remember correctly, he spent about a year involved in a so called "friendship" with this woman. At some point, he brought her to your home. You read the signals that it was more than a "friendship". The two of you argued about it back and forth for months. Then, at some point, he told you words to the effect that he thought that maybe he was "supposed" to "be" with her and not with you. It just sounded like he slowly allowed himself to go down that "slippery slope" of an EA for about a year while you talked to him about it and expressed concern about it...and while he denied it. That is a long time for something like that to go on.

The fact that your FWH expects YOU to figure out this corporate communications problem involving OW makes no sense to me. Read Mel's concept again of a renter and a buyer. Your FWH is acting like a renter in this regard.

I am finally making headway with my FWH in his "renter" attitude. His EA was very short-lived. It was as though he was a "renter" with me, but a long-term renter. He had NO thought of ever disolving the rental lease. It was a rental Lease for life. But, he re-established a correspondence with a high school girlfriend and she was OH SO EXCITED to have him back in her life. He too brought her into my home to meet me. He did this at a point in the relationship where he realized she might think he wanted more than a simple firtation and ego boost. He thought, 'Oh yikes, better bring her home to the wife so it won't be so private and secret.' he thought he could make the relationship into something acceptable if I met her.

She was like his little daily vacation rental. I was the long term lease and she was the daily fun rental. Fortunately for us, he stopped it as soon as I found evidence of the level of contact and deceit.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have been able to describe to him the behaviors he routinely does within our family and marriage such that he is finally changing his behaviors. I am not really certain what it was about what I said or how I acted that was different from other times I have attempted to draw my boundaries, but this time, it seems pretty effective: He is remembering things better, he is taking ownership of the boys better, he seems to have marriage and family withing the forefront of his thoughts and actions better.

I am just concerned for you in that you are stuck at a point within discovery of the EA since the FOW is still around. You are continuing to have panic attacks and express it as anger. Your FWH seems to be continuing to 'lay low' and hope it blows over. I know that he has done some positive things and that he is attending to you and showing you he cares about you. But the evidence that he could have this sort of contact in his blackberry for you to find and then not even be able to problem solve it on his own shows that he is not protecting you from his assault on you and the marriage.

I know there is a lot of good that is going on in your marriage. I can tell that by what you write. But you are not being protected from the results of the EA--a long term EA. Your panic continues. Your panic results in anger outbursts and this just is not good for your marriage. How long can this continue? How long can the two of you take it? Is he just going to be a martyr forever about it? What does he have on his mind? How long does he think you will have emotional pain over this issue? Does he have some timeframe in his mind?--If I wait it out for five years, maybe she will be over it and I will be able to stay in this job??

I keep hoping that OW will leave her job. But so far that has not happened for you and him. Is she a good worker? Can't some carrot be found in another corporation...Can't her supervisor provide her with some sort of job opportunity in another company? This would not be that unusual: A contact in another company could be sought out and due to her competence, she could be lured away to another position. Is this scenario completely out of the question?

Again, if I remember the situation for you, this was a long term, slow building but in your face sort of EA that led up to the point where your FWH said, words to the effect of 'I think maybe I am supposed to be with her and not with you.' I think he is underestimating the damage from that situation.

Regards to you both,

Lake,
Do you live in my head?

Ok, let me address a few points. The email was initiated by John. He included H in this email as he is his boss and he had previously come to him for guidance regarding this particular work issue. He had to contact FOW because she and John were two of four workers who were fixing issues. At no time were any of the emails directly speaking to H. He was just a copy. But, I addressed the same thing regarding multiple emails and that he would have had to delete her emails since his address was in the recipient line. He says she was probably hitting 'reply all' and that is why he was included. He also said the reason no emails show up from her was because he has her email address blocked on his computer/work email. He does not have an email address other than the one for work. Also, he did not tell me of the emails because I was the first one to open all five. He gets approx 1200 emails in a three day time frame. He had spoken to John directly so he felt no need to open the emails, as they were simply back-up. So, I do understand this.

But, as far as FOW, she is very bold. So far, she has kept a low profile and has stayed away since February. The only contact indirectly was when H called her home on the Thursday before Easter and left her a messege telling her that under no circumstances should she attempt any communication over the Easter Holiday. She had an uncanny way of spoiling every holiday for an entire year. She even went after President's day. Apparently any time he had extended family time perturbed her.

So, his plan is to send a curt business like email on Monday that simply states "please remove me from any further email distribution lists." I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. Maybe she does not even realize he was on the email. But, in reality I know she did. And, my fear is that if he does NOTHING, it will be a slight crack in the door and she will try to put in her foot. So, now we're left wondering what's the right thing to do.

As for a new job...she does not seem to be going anywhere, but neither of us knows first hand. H is looking for a new job, although not very agressively. He wanted a new job for the last 5 years but struggles with change and with uncertainty. He's worked for the same company for over 20 years and feels stuck. He has longevity which lends him job security. Circumstances keep him frozen in time. But, I know he'd be happier if he felt more appreciated and had more regular hours. He believes that no matter where he goes I will NEVER get over what he's done. I don't know...maybe I won't. But, I do believe time will fade the hurt and I'll look at him as H again and not as a betrayer. Hopefully this helped you to help me. It's Saturday and I'm hoping I get enought feedback and opinions to proceed on Monday. Today we have a family picnic to go to so the change of scenery will do us all good. And, it breaks the mood of yuckiness. thanks.

Oh, one more thing...
As for the fixing stuff. Yup, he expects me to help him figure that out. He thinks it's unfair that I have all these demands but no solution. He feels it important to act as a couple and to not just say "this is what you need to do" and not help him come up with a solution. Is this fair? Don't know...but I do know that part of the appeal to OW was that she "understood" his work related world. So, I try to be interested and understanding. I told him this morning that I know myself well enough to know that I don't have the physical or emotional strength to go through another indecisive year from him. He had to make a choice...me or her. And, by that I mean work. I cannot tolerate any form of communication between them...work, personal or otherwise.

Given what you describe, I suggest that someone else in the organization do the communication regarding this issue. I think that your H's "no contact" with her should be maintained.

So it depends on the situation: Ideally, your FWH should tell his subordinates that he wants no correspondence forwarded to him from FOW. This is a logical consequence of his EA. I think that it is not a good corporate practise to restrict correspondence. I think it is unusual that a manager needs to tell subordinates this sort of thing, and I think it puts your FWH at a disadvantage within his corporation. But again, these are the logical consequences of his actions.


Maybe others on this site will think that the curt business correspondence from your FWH to her is acceptable. One concern for me is that it will give her an opportunity to go to her boss or someone else and say, 'why?' 'I need to understand why I need to break the corporate protocol...Isn't this unfair to me, will this affect my personnel record?, etc' I think both methods put your H in a strange situation corporate-wise--but again, logical consequences of his actions. And--he does need to protect you and his marriage.


"He believes that no matter where he goes I will NEVER get over what he's done."

Does he really think this??? Does he say this? I think this is a very disrespectful perspective. Certainly the fact that he works with the OW is a substantial reason why you are not yet able to recover. Is he in that woe is me mode? You know, woe is me, but this is my lot in life. I don't really like my job, my wife feels I betrayed her and this has brought discord to my marriage, I can't do anything right to please her regarding my situation regarding my betrayal. Now my wife is all worked up again and I don't know how to deal with it, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if this is the deal, but you make it sound like this is the deal. It would be good if HE could come up with the solution to ensure "no contact" as best as possible in this poor situation where they still work together. Let him pick the solution and tell you about it. If you feel you can feel good about his solution, have him go with it. Let him take responsibility for decisions related to his work....Man up, so to speak.

Hi fiori!

Wow, I feel like such a dork ... I had no idea you had a thread over here!! Anyway, sorry for the late reply ... I have been out since early this morning. I hope that your weekend is going better.

After reading the details of the email exchange, specifically (1) that your husband never even opened the emails and (2) that it was John who added your husband to the distro not the OW, I honestly feel like your husband did nothing wrong. I also don't think it is a sign that the OW is trying to crack the door since it was John who added your husband and not the OW.

If the OW had taken him off the distro, that would be a major faux pas in the work environment because it would come off as an insult to John and to your husband and just plain look disrespectful. Everyone else on the email would wonder why she was trying to keep your husband out of the loop.

Asking your husband to send an email saying "don't cc me on this" could also look rather unprofessional... which I'm sure is why he did not do it in the first place. I give him a lot of credit for being willing to do this for you. It says more than I think you realize about how much he is willing to sacrifice for you. He is basically risking damaging his reputation which at work is your most valuable asset. His professional reputation is important because it enables him to be the breadwinner for your family. I know any mention of the OW hurts, but maybe you are cutting off your nose to spite your face here. Do you really want to cause your husband to be unprofessional just to make the point again that his EA hurt you? Do you think he really didn't get that already?

Today was an emotionally rough day for me ... I'm sure it's coloring my thoughts, but I'm pretty sure it is for the better rather than for the worse. My friend's sister passed away and today was the memorial service. She was only 34 and had been fighting cancer for the last 4 years very bravely. Life is short ... sometimes very short ... and so it is very important to enjoy the time we do have with our loved ones to the fullest. That loss will put in excruciating perspective the smallness of our petty irritations. Anyway, I'm feeling pretty tired now ... so I better log off. I'll check back in later ... now that I know where you are

Ga,
I hope you're right about him. I know he's a good man and this entire event was out of character for him...but it's done and now we have to deal with it. H is not happy where he is and has not been for several years. His company has been absorbed by a larger conglomerate and it's lost that small company feel. So, he's due for change anyway. This, the job, is one aspect of our recovery I've never insisted on. Yes, I insist they not work in the same company so I suppose I'm doing it indirectly, but he's the support system for our family and I don't feel it's my place to make that demand. I'm afraid that later down the line if the new job does not work out H will say to me "see, if you could have trusted me and I could have stayed where I was..." He's not a vindictive person so I doubt he'll say this, but you never know. Well, we have today to decide what to do. Maybe I should listen to the others and have him just let this one slide and see if she tries again. Does that seem reasonable? But, deep down inside, there's a part of me that is fearful that this has been going on all the time and he'll go to work tomorrow and say to OW "ha, we got away with it...we almost got caught but she finally caved...." Again, not sure this is his style, but I think out of my injured part of the brain.
Yesterday I copied my original question and the long posting Lake wrote back and gave it to him to read. I was asleep so I'm not sure what he thought. But, I do know that he came up around midnight to turn off my tv and he grabbed the paper...

I like Snuggle's response. Your H has to do whatever it takes to get you to trust him again and he is genuinely trying - even at the risk of his rep at work like Snugs said. Think of this in terms of weight. In the full picture of everything that is going on how much weight do you want this action to carry or have worth? How much is everything your husband been doing worth? Does it outweight what's happened here. This is how I had to look at my marriage. The MC made me think was 4-6 months of misguided direction worth bulldozing down (divorce) our 18 years of life we built together. The answer for me was no. Our relationship needed attention. It was easier for me because a coworker was not involved and my husband no longer goes to the gym or sees the OW from the gym. While your husband is looking for another job, give things that happen value and weigh it out. When a BS is in the fog of it, it is difficult to think clearly and see the potential versus the damage (at least that is how it was for me).

Snugs,
Sorry to hear about your friend's passing.

Thank you GA.



fiori, fear is a bad place to make decisions from. Fear is an instinct. It comes from a narrow part of our brains. It sees only black and white. If we make decisions based on fear, we are basically using only a small percentage of our brains. It's irrational. To get back to rational, we have to apply the rest of our brains which can see context, gray areas.

I think the rest of your brain is saying something like "he's not trying to get away with something. The emails were all work-related, not personal; he didn't even respond or read them; she didn't add him; John is just trying to keep his boss in the loop like the good employee he is." Like GA said, you have to weigh things properly and that includes what the fearful (my husband calls it lizard brain) part of you feels and what the rational part of you knows.

If you ever find yourself feeling fearful, take a deep breath, acknowledge the fear, then separate from it ... move away from it back to yourself ... your whole self ... then when you don't feel fearful anymore, do something (or not do as Yoda would say ... lol!).

Fiori,
In the basic steps at this site - one is undivided attention. Have you spent time alone with H (no house or kids?). Me and H started date nights but this week we will have a week to ourselves - both kids away at camp. Spending time together has helped us reconnect and for me - gain trust in H. You need time together, alone and away from house, kids, work.

From Harley article:
Basic Concept #4: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Unless you and your spouse schedule time each week for undivided attention, it will be impossible to meet each other's most important emotional needs. So to help you and your spouse clear space in your schedule for each other, I have written the Policy of Undivided Attention: Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week, using the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. This policy will help you avoid one of the most common mistakes in marriage -- neglecting each other.

This Basic Concept not only helps guarantee that you will meet each other's emotional needs, but it also unlocks the door to the use of all the other basic concepts. Without time for undivided attention you will not be able to avoid Love Busters and you will not be able to negotiate effectively. Time for undivided attention is the necessary ingredient for everything that's important in marriage.

I have to agree that you need to look at the WHOLE picture.

I keep thinking of this analogy...

When our oldest was born he spent ten weeks in the NICU. He would have what they called "As and Bs" which means that he would stop breathing and then his heart would stop beating. This horrible alarm would sound every time this started to happen and we would rub his chest, he would begin to breath again, and all would be well. Problem is, we lived in fear of this alarm. And it would go off all of the time when nothing was wrong. So we learned to quit watching the monitor and when the alarm would go off, we would LOOK at the baby. Was he breathing? Was he pink? Often, even though the alarm was going off, he was doing everything he should be doing.

I think you need to start LOOKING at your H and quit listening to the "alarms." Yes, if the alarm goes off (i.e. you feel a gut instinct or see a red flag) you need to investigate, but keep LOOKING at your H for signals. Is he doing the right things? Is he acting wayward or is he acting committed? Listen to the things you can see with your own eyes...his actions are showing you that even though the alarm is going off, everything is ok.

This is something that I have had to do with my H and it really has helped me to stay in touch with reality. Fear is overpowering. Those alarms will go off to the point that everything becomes an alarm. Don't let that happen.

HTM

Well, I've thought about this...
Do you know I can honestly tell you what I feel he's telling me is that he's lazy. Yup, I'm being honest. I really think he thinks he's doing everything he can to quell my fears and make me feel loved and cherished. But, bottom line, he's not. I have been very, very exact in telling him what I need from him. There's no grey area at all. I don't feel special, I don't feel cherished. So, now what? Yes, I believe he loves me. But, right now he's not fully concentrating on what really needs to be done to fix US. We're in the midst of a kitchen renovation...paying cash for all, it's tuition time and he's absolutely besieged at work with lots of deadlines and very little appreciation. Then, add to that, stress at home because the pesty wife feels like she's standing on a fault line and it's a recipe for disaster. I just feel like I need a break. Is it wrong to ask him to step up to the plate and do a little extra to help me get through these tough times. It's probably not fair to expect him to fix me, but is it fair to expect me to do it alone? That's it, I feel lonely. He seems too distracted and too busy right now to give us the time we require. So, while I've always felt like I was second to his job, now I feel like I'm third. I know, as I say this it seems like whining. And, maybe I am and it will pass. But, I know that tomorrow he goes off to work, a place where he used his 'friendship' to break my heart. A place where this human he aligned himself with still dwells. Yuck. I look over to the left of my screen on the computer and there is a new post called "How do I win her back!!"...Boy, I wish my H had those thoughts. I really don't believe he thinks he needs to win me back. I think he thinks that simply by being here it's enough. He says he does not expect me to change. But, by choosing another woman, didn't he essentially tell me I was not good enough? He says one has nothing to do with the other...I think not! It's just a dark day for me. I know I have to call my gyn doc because I've picked up on a trend. There must be a birth control pill that does not have such detrimental effects to my psyche the same week each month. It's like clockwork! But, this is not an excuse. I feel very out of control and sad. I'm almost afraid to really be happy. I know my husband well enough to know that if I seem happy he's going to think I'm all better and then he'll revert back to his work emersed non cherishing husband. I often wonder if it was always like this and I never noticed before. I know I've always craved more kissing and we've discussed this the entire time we have been married. But, have I always missed something but felt it was not reason enough to complain? Now the lines are blurred from pre EA to post EA. I really can't always see the line any more. Too bad for me! Perhaps tomorrow will give me better results.

Is there anything that always gives you a good feeling? Rock music, Rap perhaps. Buy yourself some flowers, if that's your thing? How about buying yourself that 1,000,000 calories ice cream that you usually avoid?

{{{fiori}}}

Sorry to hear you're feeling down in the dumps today. I like TrustDoe's suggestions for self-soothing. The music one is a really good one (no guilt afterwards like from a chocolate binge). There are songs that I will play LOUD and sing along and after three or four turns I feel feisty again. This is totally unladylike, but there is one song called "Rockin' the Suburbs" by Ben Folds in which he drops the F-bomb that always works for me (of course I only do this alone in my car ... LOL...shhhhh, don't tell anyone!). Maybe we should make you a mix CD !

Quick question ... you said that you have been very, very exact about telling your husband what you need from him. What was it you asked him to do?

Well, for me, it's Tom Petty. Usually 'breakdown' or American Girl. I'll give that a whirl tomorrow when I'm in the car. Also, another guilty pleasure is Dairy Queen vanilla in a cone. Just plain vanilla. We always joke here. Sometimes my family will get together and we think of our last meal if we were ever wrongly accused and on death row. Mine would be vanilla ice cream with wet walnuts and a small dab of hot fudge. No steak, no lobster...just the ice cream!

Now, as for what I've asked for. Well, I want him to touch me when he walks by. I want him to look me in the eye and just smile. I want him to kiss me without requiring it to go somewhere else! I want him to write me a quite note once in a while to let me know he's thinking of me. And, probably the hardest thing and perhaps the most selfish and indulgent...I want him to renounce OW. Yes, I know...I'm a jerk for asking. But, she put me through holy hell and he's never really held her accountable for it. He's accountable for his part, but not hers. She stalked our family. She called multiple times a night. She flirted with him openly in front of our children. She repeatedly tried to coax him into lying to me and going out to dinner after work. She ambushed my mother in law at her home and tried to get her to talk her son into leaving me & the kids and going with her. Wouldn't this be a person he should at least strongly dislike? I need to hear him say something horrible about her -- God knows he's heard me say a few.
I'm sure I've got the focus all wrong, but it's really what I wish for. He seems so down. I worry that it's because he regrets his decision to be here. He says not, but he's not very convincing. Would it be too much to put a little more effort into us? If he gave me 1/2 the energy he gives his job I'd be a lucky girl. So, I cry a river like a whiner. I bought a great homemade apple pie today...maybe I deserve a slice!

fi,
I hate that he was on the emails, yuck! That makes it feel like you have to relive EVERYTHING all over again. If I read right though, it was his staff member that put him on the cc, right?

He needs to let that staff member know that he does not want to be on the emails EVER again. It was a positive sign that he did not open them, but it does violate your boundary and does need to be addressed.

I was pleased to hear that he has her blocked on his email. That should mean that he never has to see any "reply all" that she may have done to the group distribution list on that email. So in essence, only your FWH's name has shown up on the same email as hers. Nothing else!!

Remember that and remember that you are still in control, not her. This just helped identify another way to tighten down your boundary lines. And it's another display to your FWH that he does need to find another job. You have done well by being strong while he still works there. That's asking alot from you.

As much as it hurts, try not to let it undo everything that has been done. I know, easier said than done.

Dogo sometimes seems like he's stuck in the "what do you want me to do next" mode. It drives me crazy because I think it should be easy to map out a plan and stick to it.

The VERY best thing that you can do is find some things that you can do for YOURSELF! I like the CD idea. Music helps me SO much. I listen to certain songs by Mariah Carey or Christina Aguilar or Celine Dion, etc. that make me feel better as a WOMAN.

Think of some other things that you can do for you. Have you tried Yoga? Find some books that are about healing, like the Radical Forgiveness one that I told you about.

Light candles and incense. Burn out through light and scent all the energy of your pain from each room. Do something different to each room that you have spent time in thinking about the DRH. Reclaim your space and your husband.

Don't worry so much about his actions being perfect AS LONG AS he is following through on all of your NC boundaries and has a STRONG desire for Recovery. Lead him down the Recovery path with you. He probably doesn't even have a clue on what to do to make this up to you, even if you have spelled it out.

This bumps are hard. It makes complete sense how you feel beat down again. Acknowledge it, get yourself back up and do what you do best.

Love yourself!!! We love ya!

I was posting at the same time as you, I just read what you said.

I know that exact feeling. When I asked FWH the other night about what she looked like, you saw how bad that made me feel. It took me SEVERAL days to get over it. Finally, he said something to me like..."you're upset because I didn't say that she was dumpy, old, wrinkled, etc. and you shouldn't even be comparing yourself to her." I have to tell ya, even if he was trying to justify what he had said, it made me smile to see the words, dumpy, old and wrinkled in the same sentence with her name. I know, I'm twisted, but it made happy. LOL!

You're doing great girl. You have every right to be upset, but you also have every to claim what is yours!!

I'm heading to Girls Camp leaving tomorrow (Mon) and coming home on Saturday. It will be the FIRST time that FWH and I have not at least spoken to one another. (no cell reception) And we have spent very few nights apart in 7 years. This is a huge test for both of us. But mostly for ME because I want to have enough personal power to enjoy myself and not let any thoughts of the Infidelity ruin that for me! I see it as a very empowering experience for the WOMAN in me.

That's been my new focus....being a better me, for me.

Hang in there girlfriend!