Husband and I are both 32, married 10 years. I am a WW, recently had a short lived (only 2 months) EA that turned into PA at the very end. To make matters worse, it was with his boss, who also happened to be our friend. We were discovered and I went into serious withdrawal. I always thought that I wanted him to be in my (our) life in some capacity; now he’s out of it for good. In a way I felt worse for losing him and ruining their and our relationship than I did about hurting my husband.

I realize why I had the A…I was ripe for it. My love bank has been in the red for many years, suffering from many LBs in the form of verbal abuse, constant criticism and controlling behavior. Because of that, I’ve built up wall I don’t know if I can tear down. We also encountered the stress of moving into a new town (got a new job, bought a new house within a month of moving, trying to sell old house.)

I’ve done a lot of reading on this site, and understand the mechanics behind affairs and how we fall in love and stay in love. I’ve done a lot of reading in books previous to this; Too Good to Leave, too Bad to Stay says I’d be happiest if I leave. I planned on having the relationship stuff figured out before making the move up here…now that we have another house, purchased mostly with my money (I have nothing now) I don’t know what my options are.

I need to know if it’s essential to “fall in love” with your life partner. I don’t feel I ever did. I married him b/c thought he was a good guy and we shared almost all of the same interests. I thought we’d be good together since we enjoy the same activities, but I’ve realized that we don’t actually connect when we do those things. I don’t feel I’ve ever connected to him emotionally. I can’t remember a time when we’ve shared a really good laugh. I can’t remember any good times to try to return to.

He was at the end of a short string of dating partners. Looking back, he was not someone who caught my eye or attention, and my first impression of him was not all that positive. He cried when he said his vows (we eloped); I heard a voice in the back of my head saying “don’t worry, you can get out of this if it doesn’t work”. Even back then, I was not hopeful about this relationship. There must be a reason I thought this, right? There must be a reason why I didn’t tell many of my friends until much later, still haven’t taken his last name, and only wear my engagement ring (don’t have a wedding band), right? What does it mean when I have never actually envisioned kids with him (ie pictured what they would look like), but I have with other people?

I know that I feel heavy in his presence, am happier lately without him. I don’t feel he brings out the best in me. He seems to seek out ways to butt heads with me…always being the oppositionist. I don’t feel I’ve ever been really respected and doubt I could ever get that now.

My AP: Apart from being married, I thought he was a total package kind of guy. I was instantly physically attracted to him. He paid attention to me (actually giving me his full attention when I spoke, really listened, and didn’t interrupt me like my husband), complimented me, we thought along the same wavelengths (even communicated telepathically). He’s super intelligent, has the best sense of humor, is sensitive, empathetic, dreamy and romantic. We also have similar interests. I understand a lot of APs are this way, due to the nature of the A, but I feel he really is this way in real life. The hardest part in dealing with all of this is knowing what was real and what was just the byproduct of the A as it all seemed so real.

So, the advice I need:
Is the feeling of being “in love” with someone essential? What if I’ve never felt this way? What if I can’t remember any really good times to return to? Is it enough to be companions (ie roommates that care for each other)? Can a wall ever be broken down and love found where there hasn’t been before? Even if he started filling all my ENs, can I ever regain loving feelings for him? I’m at a crossroads in life; I feel like it’s time to start thinking about what I really want and need in life, and start thinking about starting a family. He is a good guy and I don’t want to give him up right away. Ideally, I’d move out and live life for 6 months, but paying 2 mortgages, that’s just not an option right now. I appreciate all your thoughts on the matter…thank you in advance.

I like how you shrug off the fact that he is married...then go on to say how great he is...lol. He's not the "package" you elude to. Could you be saying a married man is a "package" to give yourself a boost? He's no package...he's a POS.

You do realize that all of your description of how he is so attentive, empathetic, dreamy and romantic is just a load of bull, right? He is only this way, because you please him sexually, period. Cut the sex off, and see just how this married, cheating man is after that...not the one you've explained, that's for sure.

You didn't mention how you've broken contact, or how you have told his BW about you're affair. How come?

Does your BH even know?

It is good you are asking this now, maybe 10 years too late but at least before you start creating children!

"I feel like it’s time to start thinking about what I really want and need in life, and start thinking about starting a family. He is a good guy and I don’t want to give him up right away."

I feel angry that you are comparing your husband with this lover you had. Like they were both pieces of meat for your pleasure. THis other man is married! Are you that cruel as to ruin some mans marriage???

FORGET starting a family. You dont need kids...you are pretty self centered and uncaring and kids would not benefit. Find out what you want before you go hurting your husband again.

You can divorce and pull equity out of your home if you want. You can force yourself to stay together. Were you ever going to tell your H about the affair? Does the OM's wife know about you two?
Figure out what you want. You cannot have the other man....do you miss him?

I don't know you, but my guess is that you are still in love with the other man and therefore are incapable of feeling love for your husband at this point. You are still clinging to the justifications you gave yourself that allowed you to get involved in the affair. In other words, you are likely rewriting your history with your husband.

The answer though is that yes, you can fall in love with your husband if he is meeting your emotional needs. The only way he will know what those are is if you share them with him.

You should NEVER have kids if you have the low moral fibre you have now in boinking a married man.

Does this married man have children? If so, you were hurting his children by talking to him and boinking him. You are a hurter of kids. Do you see how you were hurting his wife and kids or do you even care??

Yes, her husband discovered them in bed. That is how he knows she was boinking the other man. They were banging and he saw them, perhaps they were banging in his own bed!!!!

Your empathy for your affair partner and your lack of empathy for your betrayed H is very telling. Exactly how long has it been since the A ended? Are you completely NC with the OM now? This "man" you feel "bad" about losing had no qualms breaking up two families to have some fun with his friend's/employees wife! Exactly how can you justify even putting any energy into feeling bad about losing him?

Did you tell your H your were "ripe" for an A? Did you talk to him about how you were feeling? All I see here is you blaming your BH for your choice to have an affair with his friend/boss. A double betrayal for your H! He lost twice here.

Love is a choice. Love is something you do, not some teenage feeling of infatuation. Did you tell him you married him because he was a good guy or did you tell him you loved him? You see you are not unique at all here. You are re-writting your marital history to justify what you did. ALL waywards do this.

So instead a man who willingly betrays both his W and his friend "brings out the best in you"? What does that say about you?

Where exactly in this post are you showing remorse and sympathy for your betrayed husband?

Get on the phone. Make an appointment with Steve Harley for counseling. Put as much or more effort into your R with your BH as you did your affair. I would lay bets you will fall back in love with your H.

"There must be a reason why I didn’t tell many of my friends until much later, still haven’t taken his last name, and only wear my engagement ring (don’t have a wedding band), right?"

Yup there is:

You are what they call a 'renter', you use people then toss them aside.

You married somebody you didn't love, made sure you didn't put much effort into saying and doing the thigns that would have allowed you to fall in love with your husband, because you wanted to make sure you'd have an excuse to cheat on him.

You claim the OM is supposedly intellegent... hmmmph...
not so - he didn't see through your obvious flaws and agenda did he? It's not exactly smart for men to fall for OW like you, to risk destroying their marriage and family, to hurt their wife and children, by taking your bait.

BTW, claiming they never loved their BS is not exactly original -most WS's claim that. It's called re-writing history. Just because it was so easy to delude yourself in to believing that con't presume the posters here will believe it too.

The same WS's who make such assertions usually start remembering what it is they fell in love with about their BS, AFTER they stop all contact with the OP.

Your ludicrously positive description of the adulterous OM is no more cedible than your pretense that your BH and marriage have no redeeming qualities.

You're so full of fog you can't see straight. Do yourself a big favor: confess the adultery, stop the adultery, and give yourself 6 months of no contact with the OM before you make any major decisions.

Thank you all for your input. Some of your comments I have taken to heart and was the dose of reality I needed. Like Introvert’s comments of my AP not being the package I thought. I should have clarified that the physical part of the PA was VERY limited…but may have progressed into something much bigger. He could have been acting romantic and dreamy due to the prospect of sex. You’re right, perhaps if I told him that would never happen, he would not have acted that way. I realize now that it wasn’t about me, but the way I made him feel.

My BH found out due to a long interrogation on why we were seen together at work (we are all in the same building). His BW does not know. My BH has the power to expose him to everyone, but hasn’t…yet. By exposing him, that means he’d expose me and that wouldn’t reflect well on him. I do feel remorse for hurting my BH, and feel remorse for what I did to his BW who has been so nice to me the few times we’ve met. I almost feel like she should know, since I feel bad that the AP has gotten off scott free and will probably be on his best behavior and treat his BW like a queen, until he finds someone else that will fill him up and be “something positive” in his life.

I believe my AP also felt remorse about the situation…saying he “wouldn’t have planned it like this”, and mentioned that he takes his vows seriously and doesn’t want to ruin what could be a lifelong friendship with us. He has been unhappy in his relationship for a long time and has wanted to leave but has stuck it out for the kids. I take responsibility for what I did, but don’t think it’s fair to be labeled as someone with low moral fiber that dangled “bait” in front of his eyes! I was actually in the process of expressing to my BH how I needed things to change in our relationship, but then decided to take the easy way out. There has not been any contact with the OM…and never will be. I have promised that to my H.

I understand that some of my language makes it sound like I’m still in the “fog”…but the feelings I’ve described are those I’ve felt from the beginning and aren’t justifications/excuses for the A.

Most of you are saying that I can fall in love with my H after he starts meeting some of my ENs, and I understand this, but can this occur if it never has? I understand that it’s my fault for not expressing them adequately, but I’m just curious how most of us don’t “express our needs” early on in a relationship, but somehow, needs get met, and we fall in love.

I feel like the “intimacy” stage of our marriage was very short and we went right to “conflict”. Our M has redeeming qualities…we are good companions and take care of each other, for the most part…which seem like qualities that are essential later in life. Is this really all you need?

This is a profound understatement.


So you or your BH need to tell her. It is her right to know what has happened to her and her marriage.

I would say no - because, without feeling love toward your spouse, you will still be vulnerable to another affair. That's why the MB program focuses on rebuilding love.

One point that posters have been trying to make to you is that the feeling that you never loved your husband is actually very common among Waywards - and that belief that one never loved their spouse almost always goes away once the Wayward ceases contact with the Affair Partner, goes thru a withdrawal/mourning period, and then allows the Betrayed Spouse to fill their Emotional Needs. Once that happens, the Wayward will fall back in love with their Betrayed, and will remember how they felt when they married.

I remember one time we had two different Wayward Wives on this forum at the same time. Both had damaged their Betrayed Husbands so much that the BHs wanted nothing more to do with them, and both of them finally realized that they really HAD loved their BH after all... only they realized it too late.

You seem to be looking for justifications to stay married to your husband without feeling love for him. Firstly, I have to ask why you would want a life like that. Secondly, I'd point out - and I'm sure you will agree - marriage without love means you would be vulnerable to another affair at any time. I know you didn't plan this affair to happen, it just turned out that way... but a marriage without love would just set the stage for this to happen all over again.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that resolving to stay married to your husband without being in love with him is very unfair to him. Do you see that? What would HE get out of a marriage where his wife is not open to loving him? Why would HE want to stay married under those conditions? If you are resolved to stay married but to cut your husband off from the possibility of your ever loving him... well, you may feel that's enough, but he may well feel very differently... and he would be within HIS rights to seek divorce and find someone who will love him.

I ask you to consider another possibility: the possibility of staying married to your husband, and LOVING him. Dare to open yourself to the possibility of loving your husband. What I'm describing is a change of heart on your part to where you will be open to the possibility of allowing your husband to meet your Emotional Needs to the point where you love him. Don't close yourself off to that possibility.

And don't blind yourself to the love your husband feels for you - any man who would even consider staying married to a woman after discovering her in bed with his boss must love her... and must see something inside her worth loving. Don't close yourself off to that, and don't close yourself off to the possibility that you can be worthy of that love... by returning it.

It can happen. I neglected my wife for years and years, and she was closed off from me emotionally. She thought she would never love me again... but when I stopped Love Busting and started meeting her Emotional Needs... she did.

There is no reason on earth why you can't, too.

Hey W

Drat! I just lost a massive post to you!

To answer: Feelings are deceptive. The charming OM proves my case.
Once your H is able to meet your EN's, love will happen on its own, just as OM made it so.

I don't think that you are in a fog.
I do agree with the posters that ask you to identify with your hubbies hurt.

You did read His Needs/ Her Needs did you?

IF this were true, then you are a very cruel person. Did you H know that he was marrying someone who didn't love him? Do you think he would have married you anyway? You said he cried at the wedding, sounds like he meant it.

Your husband needs to expose your ugly adultery, especially to OM's wife. It's her life too and she has the right to know what kind of man she's married to... you know, the guy who takes his vows seriously? (where IS that eye-rolly icon?)She has the right to make decisions about her life. By not telling her, she has no clue that her life has been effected.

If you're here looking for a way out, then you're out of luck. This is a MARRIAGE-BUILDING site. Not a maybe I'll stay married if it makes me feel good site.

If you're here ready to be honest and LIVE UP TO THE VOWS you made, then MB can help. The first thing you need to learn is that LOVE is NOT a feeling... it's a verb.

Honestly though, since you guys have no children, you should let your husband go so he can find a decent honest woman who will LOVE him in all the ways a wife should love a husband and one without one foot out the door. He deserves better than you've treated him.

what,

"My BH has the power to expose him to everyone, but hasn’t…yet. By exposing him, that means he’d expose me and that wouldn’t reflect well on him."

This is a load of baloney. It's not going to reflect well on YOU, my dear.

If your H is thinking this way, then he is as shallow as you are.

IMHO

kirk

"His BW does not know."

Tell her ASAP - she has a right to know.

"My BH has the power to expose him to everyone, but hasn’t…yet."

Your BH may not understrand how important it is to tell the BS of your OP. Send your BH here, we'll explain to him why it must be done to give bothmarirages the best chance for recovery.

"By exposing him, that means he’d expose me and that wouldn’t reflect well on him."

Fog-babble? Or have you threatened in some way that you'd be angry if he exposed? Or is he worried that he will look like a fool if others know his wife cheated on him? Whatever the reason, send him here.

"I do feel remorse for hurting my BH, and feel remorse for what I did to his BW who has been so nice to me the few times we’ve met. I almost feel like she should know, since I feel bad that the AP has gotten off scott free and will probably be on his best behavior and treat his BW like a queen, until he finds someone else that will fill him up and be “something positive” in his life."

Of course she should know. It is extremely insensitive and presumptious for you and her husband to continue to keep such a nasty secret from her. It is HER marriage and her husband. It is not for you, your BH, or her WH to decide whether she has a right to know the truth. She alone has the right to decide after she learns the truth, whether to fight for her marriage or to divorce him. She can't do either if you keep lying to her.
What you "almost feel like" is totally irrelevent. The right thing to do is to tell her the truth.

1. How long has it been since you ended the affair?

2. Did you admit the physical part of the affair to your husband or just the emotional part?

3. Did you tell your husband where you banged the other man, etc? I mean, the details?

I wonder if your husband knew about the physical part how he would feel.

And you should right now call up the OMs wife and tell her how you banged her husband. She has a right to know.

When I first started reading your post, I thought maybe you were my STBXWW, until the details started to diverge. Most everything you've written is very similar to my M and the things my WW did and went through.

Right now you're still in withdrawal and, frankly, still in the fog. You're rewriting your marital history with absolutes (NEVER had a good laugh, NO good times to remember, etc.) and idealizing your AP (communicated 'telepathically'). If you've read as much here as you say you have, you should know that your feelings about both men will change after you've had NC with your AP for a few months. Although you say the A is over, you haven't said how long it has been since your last contact with OM. Come clean about this point.

A lot of the other posters are bashing you for being self-centered. That's true right now while you're still in the fog. It may not be true of the real you that comes out of the fog (or if you really are like my STBXWW it may be true that you're normally that selfish and egocentric). The most telling comment is when you refer to your BH as a good guy you don't want to give up right away. He is not your property to manipulate. And he doesn't owe you anything. Moving out to be by yourself is exactly what my WW wanted to do and it is a major reason why she is now my STBXWW. After she stopped contacting OM for about five months, her feelings changed dramatically. But by then it was too late because so had mine and I realized I was better off without her.

Bottom line: Go NC with OM for a few months and see if your feelings have changed. Don't make any big decisions until then.

You keep refering to love as nothing more then a feeling that you have no control over. It is so much more then that. Love is primarily a verb, so if the two of you start doing the things of love, then absolutely yes, you can be in love. You won't fall in love as if something magically just fell on you without any effort on your part, but you can be in love.

Just because your husband has not met your needs, that doesn't mean that he isn't capable. Perhaps he didn't really understand what they are, or did know how to do it. Perhaps he didn't want to risk rejection, which makes sense considering you seem pretty blah about him.

"Most of you are saying that I can fall in love with my H after he starts meeting some of my ENs, and I understand this, but can this occur if it never has? I understand that it’s my fault for not expressing them adequately,"

Your having your needs met by your husband is only part of the equation.

You also have to:

meet his most important needs BECAUSE that makes him feel more motivated to meet yours

meet his most important needs BECAUSE (of the consistency principle) that will make YOU feel more in love with him too

help/allow him (AND ONLY HIM) to meet your needs

You didn't just fail at identifying an expressing your needs...
"I understand that it’s my fault for not expressing them adequately,"

You didn't help him meet your most important needs AND you allowed an OM to do so instead AND you didn't learn and fulfill your husband's EN's either.

"but I’m just curious how most of us don’t “express our needs” early on in a relationship, but somehow, needs get met, and we fall in love."

There is a difference between lust and love.
Feeling 'in love' in the beginning of a relationship is a high that doesn't require much effort (or integrity, maturity, or genuine concern for the other person). It's just going after the thrill of getting involved with somebody new. whoopee! I wonder why some people even bother to get married when they obviously just want to chase that 'new love' feeling, leaving a trail of broken hearts behind them?

You gave your husband the false impression that you loved him enough to marry him;

you knew he loved you in more than the new relationship high way.

When the thrill fizzled to the point you'd actually have to BE loving, you betrayed your husband's love and trust to go afters cheap/easy thrills with a married man.

It IS possible for you to feel "in love" with your own husband instead of somebody else's husband. But that means you will have to help your husband learn what your most important needs are and how to meet them, learn what your husband's most important needs are and how he'd like them to be met, AND stop allowing anyone other than your husband to meet your needs, AND stop saying/doing things that meet the needs of other men besides your husband.

It is not merely what you get, but also what you give, that determines whether or not you can fall in love with somebody.

You obviously withheld much from your BH, didn't invest yourself in the marriage. Even IF your BH magically figured out and fulfilled ALL your EN's, you still would have cheated because you weren't investing yourself. You had one foot out the door from the beginning. You didn't feel loving because you didn't act loving. Feelings and actions work both ways.

I must say that I really do appreciate all the advice you have given me; I am so grateful for this site and for learning from others.

Cuthbert, thank you for giving your input and sharing your story that makes me optimistic about my relationship. I am happy to know that something good can come out of a relationship where needs were not met and one partner became emotionally closed off.

I understand that love is a verb. I guess I am naïve in the fact that I expect there to be a falling in love first (feeling), which then grows into a more mature, active love (verb). I previously thought that the falling in love feeling wasn’t necessary as I felt we went right to the action of love, and that had to say something positive about our relationship. Now that I feel I felt it , I feel that maybe I’ve missed out on something. (I know some of you say that was just lust, of being with someone new…but I feel otherwise…esp. since that is the definition on this website…you fall in love when someone makes enough deposits into your love bank.)I obviously have a lot to learn about love and that's why I'm here.

My BH is a very good man and did not deserve this, but has recognized the ways in which he may have made it easy for this to happen. I am working hard to regain his trust and break down the wall I’ve built as my defense mechanism. I only hope that it can be broken down and I can open myself up to be vulnerable again to someone has hurt me greatly.

(By the way, there was no “act” “discovered” by my BH…I told him about the EA and the (very limited) PA. The AP and I have known each other for just over a year, but have had limited contact within that time. The EA lasted 2 months; we were only alone together 2x (no sex). It has been one month since Discovery. No contact with OM has been made.)

Thank you all, again.

You know, we have other couples on here who are posting together (on separate threads) and it's working. Maybe you could send your husband here and we can help both of you. What do you think?