Hi guys,

A brief outline of my situation.

01/2008 - we are living in Berlin, Germany. W is acting somewhat out of character and staying out late.

01/28/2008 - WW moves all of her stuff out of the apartment and leaves a note saying she is in "two minds" about us. WW goes back to Australia where our home is.

02/26/2008 - I discover OM when I surprise WW at an airport in England to pick her up. I didn't see him though - I would have killed him had I seen him

03/2008 - 04/2008 W comes to see me in Berlin on several occasions. We hang out, have a great time, go on dates and have SF.

04/11/2008 - W says she wants to "get back together" and moves her things back into the apartment. 9 days later it transpires that she has stuff left at OM's and she needs to go back to "find herself", "process feelings" etc - the usual poisonous, delusional fog that you are all familiar with

04/28/2008 - I fly back to Australia, having had enough of the whole situation and tell WW I don't want to hear from her until she is either 0% or 100% committed

05/2008 - I get lots of SMSs from ehr saying how "lost" she is without me, misses me etc.

05/21/2008 - W arrives back in Australia and we have been back under the same roof for the last 10 weeks.

She has been saying things like "it's over between OM and I and we're just friends" having previously agreed no to contact him again. I busted her Skyping him yesterday morning and she said she is still "processing her feelings" etc. etc. that we (meaning she and I) "are just friends and getting acquainted". This despite me paying all of her bills and us having regular SF. She is still confused, fogged and refuses to cease contact with OM. I said to her yesterday that the behaviour is totally unacceptable and she agreed, then later in the evening I said "I don't want to see that happening again and be dishonoured - you're an honorable person aren't you?". She said "most of the time yes, it's hard to be when life is hard though"....

Should I carry on Plan A-ing or just flush the marriage? I don't want to but I know that recovery is impossible unless she does what she said she was going to do and ends contact. Any advice from people who have sucessfully dealt with a similar situation?

Welcome to MB. I think you need to keep Plan A'ing, with the goal of NC with the OM. I lost track - where is HE?

It is nice that the Mrs. realizes that she is not an honorable person right now.

Hello Believer, we live in Sydney and OM is in England.

So, physical separation from the lover has happened but there is still contact through SMSs, email, IM and Skype. WW appears to be weighing up whether she to go back, this after having said "it's over" and saying "I'm here to work on things with you GH31 and I don't want to let go of our unity".

I will keep Plan A-ing but I have had a bit of a backslide when I found her Skyping him. She seemed somewhat apologetic and said "you've been really good GH31 recently" - hopefully the Plan A is good. I hope I don't have to go to Plan B but I am beginning to accept that it may be necessary. This ongoing contact is driving me to despair.

Shes in the fog. In order to advance foward she needs to NC. If shes serious and wants the M to work. Shes under your roof where you pay the bills she needs to respect you.

That's the thing. She says she "doesn't want to be without me" and that "breaking up with you would be like losing part of myself" but it is patently obvious that she is fence sitting and "processing her feelings" as she puts it. Complete affair script I know.

She has "promised" several times that there would be no more contact but she is never able to stick to it. She is not very thick skinned and completely stuck.

I said to her "contacting OM is the most disresepctful thing you could possibly do to me" and "I cannot be a husband to you if you're doing this".

The question is, how to deal with this?

GH13,

If you read the articles here and possibly Harley's book you will notice he recommends plan A for about 6 months or so. Depending on when your love starts to run out.

After that he recommends plan B to protect your love for your W while the A continues. THe A is continuing right now. It is just an EA now.

Read up on plan B and be ready to go to it. It is time for her to figure out what she really wants and you need to be absent from this because her sitting on the fence will kill your love for her, then there will be little hope of recovery.

The next step after plan A is plan B, be ready and prepare.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,

Thank you for posting.

I just looked at my W's Flickr account and she has added OM as a contact.

Yes you are right, the EA is continuing and this marriage does not stand a shred of chance. I am preparing my Plan B letter as I write this.

This is so heartbreaking I don't know how to describe it.

Can it really be true that most As end? What really ends them?

GH,

Exposure often starts the end of them. Affairs live in secrecy and exposing them to the light of day often starts the end. If you have not exposed to family and friends that might be willing to speak with her about her choices you should definitely do so.

You can expect a very strong reaction and it will not be positive, but that is to be expected.

What ends them is the lying, the deceptions, conscience (sometimes), finding that the OP cannot meet needs as well as they thought, realizing the grass is greener...where you water it. Many things but most affairs end, although it can take years, most do so in about 6 months according to Harley and it seems true from what is posted here.

Expose the affair if you have not. And yes prepare plan B, she is playing games right now. It has not occured to her that she really may lose you. Plan B is not about making her see that, but that is sometimes the by product of plan B.

Finally, time ends them, that is why it is important for you to maintain your love of her for as long as you can or until you decide you really don't want to go on. You will find plan B hard in that most are addicted to their spouse ( I mean DuH we are supposed to be addicted to our spouse). However, it can also be a relief because you are not faced with her/ the lies/ the drama of this A on a daily/hourly basis.

Hang in there, GH time and patience are your allies.

God Bless,

JL

GH,

Thought I would add, that the plan B letter is really a love letter offering a way back. It clearly states that No Contact must be established.

There are no threats, no love busters, no angry outbursts. It is a calm, clear, love letter.

You have learned a great deal in all of this and perhaps that needs to be expressed as well, but keep the letter on point and relatively short.

I have read your other thread, and it seems you have figured out LB's are not a way to run a marriage. That is a good thing. However, please consider what you have learned and will learn should be carried forward into your future no matter how this thing turns out.

I think there is reason to hope that your marriage can be restored. She is there with you and not in England with OM. I think she knows where she really wants to be, but is having a hard time trusting herself, you, and that you are capable of forgiveness. Above all be gentle in handling this with NO LB's.

You will find this approach is very powerful.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,

Thanks for your input; it really does look like you know your stuff.

Yes, everyone in her's and my family knows what's been going on. When I "surprised" her at the airport in February I rang her father and told him I was going to divorce her - such was the level of pain when I found out. Her dad agreed that he would do the exact same thing in my position and said what she's done then and since was disgraceful.

WW blamed the A on me saying that because I didn't come running after her to Australia in February that she had made "other arrangements".

I don't know what to do with her. We are having SF as often as we've always done and last Saturday it was the most intense it's ever been. Then we had it this morning but afterwards she was very cold and distant.

I looked at WW's Skype account last night - she said that I could look at it whenever I liked as long as I didn't call OM as he would get "really upset". I could tell that she was very uncomfortable with me looking at it, but I thanked her for her openness. She said something like "you can look at it just once..." but I said "you know that that just won't do..."

I hope you're right and that she wants to work things out deep down, but OM has to be out of the picture before we can recover. I have said to her if we divorce then there can never be any more contact between us out of respect for anyone that we later marry. Then sometimes I hear things like "I don't believe in divorce" (?!) and "well it would be terribly hard to be without you GH31 as we have such a close bond..." A few times I have asked her if we will eventually get a divorce (probably not something I should do) and she says things like "we'll see" and "time will tell". Go figure.

Not that it's any of my business, but my wife didn't want me calling OM either...I did anyway. Turns out that he actually was happy to give me some information that WW didn't want me to know. After an hour of her denials, she finally caved and said that he was telling the truth (in most cases...the ones that matter, anyway).

I'm just guessing (I don't know your WW), but from experience, I must say that your wife does not want you to speak to him because she's hiding something.

JMOFWIW

Your WW is fence-sitting and cake-eating, as she's getting the best of both worlds. If you're waiting for her to take action, I think you've got a long wait ahead of you.

Contact the OM, and ask him to stop contacting your WW, immediately.

I am wrestling mentally with this one. WW says that he's a really sensitive guy wearing his heart on his sleeve and that it will just crush him if I call him - "make it worse for him than it already is. GH31 you have much thicker skin than he does".

Also, W left me and had some serious gripes as I know from reading MB material that I was just about the worst, most neglectful, selfish and angry husband imaginable.

I am going to talk to the Harleys and see what to do from here.

This is very dangerous to your health. I would not engaged in sexual relations with this woman until she is tested for diseases and ceases contact with OM.

Your life is on the line.

GH31, OF COURSE she doesn't want you contacting the OM - it may mess up her cake-eating! Stop discussing your A-busting ideas with her - she's obviously not going to support them, and will find any excuse possible to convince you to not go through with them.

Looks like an excellent opportunity to apply a little (or a lot ... you make the call) of pressure on OM.

I'm with introvert ... I made that call and we have NEVER heard from OM again. Figure out what type of leverage you may have on OM and ROCK HIS WORLD!!!

OM are historically COWARDS ... they are out for a little quick, easy, fun, while WW's fall head over heals for their BULLSH1T. Once you introduce yourself to him, it will no longer be very "easy" or "fun" and he will likely throw your WW away, so you get the double-barrelled benefit of having your WW see you stand up for your M and the OM slink away back into his hole.

GH31,

Even though my W's A is long over, the only regret I have is that I listened to her and did not contact the OM. Her A was relatively short lived, but I think it would have shortened it even more.

I was also one of those that engaged in SF during the A even after I found out. It is a risk, but it was a risk I took. There were times she was distant, and I think because such things are difficult for any human to process. Mostly, for me it was a good thing. We had let SF slide a bit because we have kids and busy lives. She had convinced herself while in the fog that I did not consider it important and it was at the top of her EN list. I'll never win the debate that SF sliding was due to both of our decisions, but SF during the A and afterward allowed me to convince her I realize how important it is to her.

His sensitive fealings are an innert component in your life. They should in no way affect any descision you make. He is the enemy and should be treated as such.

If he is in fact that sensitive, then it should be easier to call him and say "call my wife again, and your head will be on a platter"....no?

The affair is not over as long as your wife has any contact, verbal, physical or otherwise with the OTHER MAN CREEP!

You forgot to do the steps to end the affair, like notify everyone in the world and confront the other man.

Please dont be a weak wimpy man afraid to confront the OM. If you are weak, your wife will continue blatently to see and talk to the other man. After all, she thinks she is in love with him...