I'm married for 8 yrs with 2 kids (7 and 5). I discovered the affair w/ my H over Thanksgiving 07. He confessed he met this OW for 6 mons from his triathlon training and affair started around Sept. 07. I found her shirt by doing his laundry and at the time he denied it at the time. Later in November of 07 - he came back from his business trip and he wanted to spent time with my daughter alone and he took her to meet this OW. It was then that I knew he had an affair because he made my daughter lied to me about her. He moved out in Jan 08 and we have been separated since. But he had told me that he needed time to think as a man, husband, and a father and agreed to work on us since we been separated. We tried the Retrouvaille program through church by using dialogue as a tool for working on our marriage. I had told him the our marriage will not work if this OW is still in the picture. He had told me she's not. He told me that he's been living with his guy friend but he never gave me his address and info when I asked him. He said he didn't want to involve his friend. I found out everything I can about this OW and knows where she lives, all her info and how she met him. One weekend in April he was leaving for training and I suspected that she's going with him - I drove to her house and saw his car parked outside helping her to get ready to leave. He came back and said "it's not what you think" - our marriage is the most important thing in my life. I told him to move back or else we are through - he said he will in May. The month of May went by and he didn't move back and I finally told him that our marriage is through if he doesn't. He moved back in June - but he brought back only a few clothes. I was helping him put away his stuff and this OW slipped her underwear under this shirts. I didn't confront him because that's what this OW would have wanted for me to kick him out of the house again and come back to her. I left it back and let him put it away thinking that he will know what kind of a woman this person is. I thought this would help him end the affair with her. I just found out from reading his email that they went away together to do another triathlon this past weekend. I had asked him if she was coming and he got really angry with me. He said "I'm done - I can do this anymore - We are done". He wouldn't even talk about the trip - didn't want me to take him to the airport - didn't give me his itinerary. He made me feel so guilty for bringing this OW up. He hasn't ended the affair with her and I don't know what to do at this point? It took me 6 mons to finally have him home and the kids missed him so much. I have gone through so much emotionally. I have read the "Surviving an Affair" - about Plan A and Plan B. I am confuse - how can I do Plan A when he hasn't end his contact with the OW? He didn't take back all of his clothes. I have a feeling he has been living with her all this time.

Why are you continuing with empty threats?

Ask and read about Plan B, because you need it soon.

How old is your daughter? One thing that makes me sick more than anything else is he how made your daughter lie to you and brought her to meet OW (well two things). He has no idea what he is doing to her.

My daughters are 7 and 5 yrs old. He made my 7 yrs old lied to me. I was in the process of doing Plan B and I looked at my children - the sadness and the emotion that they went through this past 6 mons. Ever since he moved out - he made little contact to our children - spent only little time with them and I feel that this OW took most of his time.

I don't know if I can risk of doing Plan B and have the kids see him walked out on us again. I read it the book 5 times about Plan B and Dr. Harley's comments. Will he end the affair after implementing Plan B?

Whatever he is doing to your girls, including introdicing them to the OW and requesting them to lie to you, their own mother, about such matter, is more damaging than not having him in their lifes.

I have requested others to post to you. You will get some more advice soon.

One thing I'm struggling with the most by doing Plan B is I have no other mediator or families here so he can contact them instead of me. Is there another option anyone can think of?

Do you have a church that you belong to?

Not even one? A neighbor, co-worker, friend?

The mediator does not have to be in your neighborhood. It can be someone who he can contact through phone and then this person commuicate the message to you through phone, though, it will get tricky if he wants to see the kids.

Since this affair started - his families tried to help him but he told his sister and his mom that he never wanted to see them and to butt out of his life. It's none of their business. He lost his own families. He lost contact with our friends that we have together. He told them to stay out of his business as well. So basically no one wants to even be bother with him anymore. He has a new set of friends through her that I don't know about since we have been separated. I may have one last friend who's been with me since and I don't know if I want to put her in that position - it's a lot to ask from her. I don't have any close friends through church and most of my time before was devoting to raising our children and I do get part of the blame for this fail marriage as well because the focus and attention between my he and I just sort of drifted away ever since the children came.

You may be part of the blame for the problems of the marriage before the affair. DON'T blame yourself that he get involved in an affair. It's ALL him!

VL,

Welcome to MB. Thanks for the call out, TD.

Plan A is about focusing on honesty. It's where you expose to everyone who can help you stand for your marriage. You've informed his family, your family, friends. When you researched OW, expose to her family, parents, siblings, husband, ex-husband. Does she also have children?

The exposure is like a declaration you are fighting for your marriage. He's back in the house, so Plan A is to do your best to end the A. Means eliminating all of your love busters (LBs) and this isn't easy. Get to know really know where you assume...it's not about being a doormat...it's about being the very best partner, bringing reality and enforcing healthy boundaries (no SDs).

Fill out the EN questionnaire as if you were your WH. Then strive to meet those ENs, get in the 15 hours of UA, and yes, you can do this even though he's still in the A.

Have you told your children about his A yet? In their words, at their level, that Daddy has a girlfriend and that married people cannot have others in their marriage?

The very best advice is with the Harleys themselves. Check out the link at the top of the page (in the red section) "Coaching Center"...much cheaper than a divorce. Good resource to help you out right now. You're worth it.

You can go along on the triathalon trips, too. We had a stellar BH here who did just that for his WW's marathon (and yes, she had a hookup with OM planned that was busted) because you ARE his wife, and you are standing for marriage.

Stand tall, VL. You can do this. Your goal is your own...not dependent on him...for an intact, thriving family with a marriage where you both are in love with one another. Recovery is a long road...doesn't begin until no contact (NC) is in place and he goes through withdrawal. You've read Harley, what about moving, have you thought about that?

Ask WH if the best possible scenario he can imagine is being in love with the mother of his children...tell him it's entirely possible and you're willing to get there with him.

Your fear of going to Plan B may end your marriage. Plan B is essential for busting up the affair, just like exposing, after a great Plan A. Plan B can be done via email, too. Some here have been intermediaries. And yes, it's heartbreaking for the kids...all of infidelity is...it's just more heartbreaking for them when later they understand that you accepted his betrayal because yet again, you put them first. They want your marriage first, too. It's what teaches them everything about relationships.

You are strong, you are not alone and you are not helpless. Breathe, center and know how incredible you really are. Then bring reality, his choice to continue attacking your marriage. Stay respectful, calm and know you are brave because you see it in hindsight, daily, 'k?

You can do this.

LA

Have you exposed the A? How about the OW is she married?

I have exposed to his families and mine as well. His families don't want to be involve as the intermediary for Plan B. She is definitely not married. He told me very little about her when I confronted him. I found everything about OW on my own from a triathlon website that my H is in. She posted her profile online. I only have her email and phone number. I have done Plan A a few months already when we were still separated and he has not ended the affair so I don't know if plan B should take place. Or should I continue plan A since he moved back home now? I asked him if I can come along to the triathlon - he said "No" - you have the kids to take care of. He still lied to me a lot & still sees her - so I am confuse right now as to which Plan I should continue doing A or B?

Does this OW know hes M to you?

Have you told this OW to back off?

Im sorry he told you no about going to the tri. I am the type that would let that go in one way and out the other and find a sitter and go anyways. He doesnt want you to go for a reason. because he cant have his cake and eat it too if you go there, Thats why. If hes not having an A with this OW then it should be no problem at all to find someone to watch the kids and for you to join him.

TD - please check message to you on another thread.

BA reference.

Well the triathlon is over - she does know that my H is married. I confronted her when I found out about the A. He said "she is nothing but a girl who needed him". What does that mean when your H said that to you? This OW won't back off - she keeps emailing him - calling him etc... and he can't say no to her. I don't want to play her game but I am running out of patient here. Help!!!

So then the WH doesnt want to do the NC then??? You have exposed so that is done. What is left to do is do a plan A...theres a post by pepperband that has the plan in it. And if you done some reading others have posted it as well... I think that would be the next thing you should do. Seeing you want your M to work.

Does your WH want the M to work? If so he needs to get out of the fog VL plain and simple.

VL,

I don't see a reply to my suggestion to expose to HER family...parents, siblings and friends. Post to the website and state they are having an affair and how destructive it is, per Dr. Harley, when a spouse has their need for Recreational Companionship met outside the marriage. A helpful post for others.

Have you asked him if he believes the best possible scenario would be for him to be in love with the mother of his children? You know he can be again, if he goes NC, shares his RC with you, allows you to meet all his ENs and stops allowing someone else to meet them. What you know matters. Stand firm.

WH is now back home...ask him to change his email addresses and his cell phone numbers. He may not do so...that's up to him. "I know you think she's someone who needs you. That's an important part of adultery...see, you're putting someone else's needs ahead of your marriage. I don't believe you want to be an adulterer for life."

Did you clear up with your OD7 about how it's out of bounds for her father to have a girlfriend when he's married? Don't leave her confusion, being told to lie, in the dark, 'k? She can understand at her level.

Can you find a pro-marriage counselor and make an appointment? You can go even if he won't, btw. This is about you doing everything you can to stand for your marriage so you have no regrets later, 'k? Means you can recover even if he chooses not to recover your marriage.

He is capable of NC...please don't buy into this thought that he isn't. He is. He's choosing to continue the affair with every call and email. That's not to hurt you--to see where his A is nothing about you, 'k?

Have you gone over all the Love Busters (LBs) by the way? Have you identified what you do (even silence is an LB when it's a lie by omission by you) and are you eliminating them?

I'm glad your patience is running out...patience can be disguised within conflict avoidance.

Have you separated your finances? Worked out how to pay bills, etc. when you go to Plan B? You can have an email intermediary, change your own cell number, home phone, etc. Please be really clear that neither of you can work on your marriage as long as their is contact. Contact continues the affair.

LA

Where can I find a list of Love Busters?
Never mind, I found them.

Hey VL, how are you doing?