Josie - the way you put it doesn't make sense to me either LOL.

It doesn't bother me.

It's just a label I don't apply - I don't see my wife that way. But it doesn't offend me at all.

I utterly disagree with this.

Utterly.

My wife was a wonderful wife for 23 years before her affair and she is a wonderful wife again now.

Her affair does not define her for those 23 years and it does not define her now.

BK...how does a "wonderful wife" take her clothes off for the FIRST TIME with another man? How does she even put herself in that position? For that matter, how does she engage in a sexual discussion with another man for the first time? How does the first kiss happen if she is a wonderful wife? (I think maybe its time to raise the bar for "wonderful wife." IMHO, a wonderful wife says "no" and tells her husband what happened. A wonderful wife doesn't need to be perfect...but she should be able to handle these most basic of tasks).

I just don't buy that good people do those things. I also don't believe that good people commit spousal assault, rob, molest, rape...etc. But based on all the people that come out of the woodwork to be a character witness for these criminals, I imagine a lot of people get fooled pretty easily.

Hi Josieaver !

Just recently I have received a salient education in how affairs happen.

There is a friend of our family who is a senior teacher at DS' school, with whom I worked as a school governor and is a good friend of Squid.

She became a BS last year and Squid and I offered help as we could. Her H was (still is) beyond help so they divorced. She is coping pretty well. She is smart, beautiful, funny , vulnerable and thinks I am great. There is the electricity of liking to spend time together. I have no doubt that we would have an affair if we just met unchaperoned a few times because we wanted more of that nice sensation with NO intention of an affair, of course...

That is how affairs happen. That is what Dr H means when he says affairs happens because people do not protect their weaknesses. When people feel that electric mutual attraction they draw near to experience more of it rather than stepping right away. It feels really nice for somebody to think you're great and if home life isn't going through a brilliantly entertaining patch it can't compete and you're vulnerable to an affair.

If I chose to dance close to that fire it would be ME and my EXISTING attributes that would take me there.

Then if I rebelled against that relationship ending I would again be using existing attributes: I can be selfish, I can lie, I just don't choose to most of the time.

Squid got closer and closer to the fire and enjoyed the warmth from it. She raged and fought to stay in its warmth using capabilities she had always had within her.

She behaved like a manga cartoon version of herself: attributes that rarely surfaced became her defining attributes for a while: under certain circumstances.

But it was her chosen instinctive response to circumstances not temporary schizophrenia. I have no doubt that under similar circumstances she would behave that way once more.

So no I don't buy that when folks have affairs they become other people for a while. I think that is a coping mechanism that we can use in order to reconcile successfully with the person who knowingly hurt us so very much.

Squid doesn't behave in a wayward manner often now, but there are flashes of the potential occasionally. Often enough for me to remain on alert. She is a complicated person. It would be so much easier if I didn't love her so much

Interestingly I discussed the situation over this teacher friend with Squid and she was dismissive. Despite her personal history she still thinks I am being dramatic by taking anti-A actions.

Black and white. Good or bad. Your cop culture shows and that is not a bad thing, it is what it is. People are complex. And people compartmentalize who they are. A good person is not born that way, they are made, nurture versus nature. And often the making is hard experience and ignorance becoming an often hard won education. It is often said that those who think they never would stray are exactly the ones who do, all the while thinking about their immunity.

Almost everyone has a bad side. To reject the bad side is to expose one's weaknesses, which Harley says lurks in all of us. And some give in to it or walk down the slippery slope as the case may be. I don't think an affair defines a person before or after, but how they deal with it does.

Just my POV.

Larry

Interesting study by, er Swedish social scientists, that revealed that many, if not most women, flirt to keep their man close by their side. And the flirt is not credible unless the potential exists for the real thing.



So I have gathered that flirting and the potential is part of nature's cosmic joke.

Larry

Cosmic joke indeed : it has the very opposite effect on me nowadays

I don't understand human nature 100% but my take on this comes from Scripture. We are not born "good" but with a bent toward sin. Even a young child if left to develop his personality naturally, has a strong bent toward selfishness.

We are all (as fallen man) wired to sin. and therefore it is natural for us to be bad in whatever areas our weaknesses happen to be in.

I think that is why it is so very important for every single one of us to have strong boundaries in place, even if we consider ourselves "good" people. Goodness is of God, and when we let down those boundaries, or decide we are strong enough on our own, our true natures will come slithering out in one form or the other.

Jesus certainly knew the nature of man.

Mrs. W

Good point!

I think there is usually alcohol-involved flirting as ignition, very dangerous.

Pep

FTR, Mrs. K (BK's wife) didn't take her clothes off for OM...

BK was still betrayed...no question...

I just can't stand idly by while that is said about my good friend, as they no doubt are peacefully sleeping...probably dreaming of the Kangaroo Bacon they will be having for "brekky" as they say!

Mrs. W

actually, it is/was a general question about any/all WS...not just Mrs. K.

As for the alcohol flirting mentioned by Pep...once again, I would suggest that a "wonderful wife" would not be out drinking with another man. I just think that my idea of a "wonderful wife" would exclude these types of behaviors.

MEDC, were you a wonderful person when you were sleeping with the mother of your son while unmarried? Or were you a bottom of the barrel, horrible person that you believe all FWS were?

Mrs. W

See MEDC I was a good person before the affair and I am a good person after the affair...No question that my actions during the affair made me a bad person...But I can tell you unequivocably that I did not live for 35 years prior to the affair as a horrible person...That is simply not true...It won't matter how many times you say it, it will still not be true...

Mrs. W

I was NOT a wonderful person. BUT, I do not think pre-marital sex is even close to being in the same category as adultery. Do you? In fact, I stood up as a good person...and stopped her from aborting my child. We used protection...but using my belief system today..I don't think I was a good person for sleeping with her.

I do believe that there are a lot of good people that engage in premarital sex.


WOW. That's a far stretch from wonderful wife. I guess there's nothing in between.

OKAY, I give up...all of you FWS were wonderful people that just happened to have gotten caught up in something bad.



eta...


were you a bad person for having premarital relations Mrs. W??? Or is the question based on her getting pregnant? I guess I could have let her have an abortion...then nobody would know. Well, except for me.

never said you did. BUT a WONDERFUL wife would not have had an affair.

Unfortunately if you wish to argue that, I won't be around...I need a mani and a pedi...lol...So I must run...BUT...This is one place that you need to re-evaluate your thinking my good friend...

Have a good day!

Mrs. W

and I will never believe that anyone that has an affair...or abuses their spouse in any other way...was a wonderful wife/husband.

Look, I have heard women on this site defend abusers as wonderful husbands....that doesn't make it so.

I have zero doubt as to the type of wife you are today.

So fornication is not as bad as adultery?