I have followed this site for some time, but this is my 1st post. I have a long, crazy (sorry) tale to tell with a new twist that I would appreciate insight into (esp. from the ladies here). Thank you for reading…

Background: I met my xW in 1993 and well fell head-over-heels for each other in literally 2 dates. We became inseparable best friends and lovers within a month, dated, and were married in 1995—it was the “real deal”. She worshipped me and I adored her. We were married until 7/07 (no kids). In the latter few years we drifted apart, largely because of my own doing. She was intensely devoted to me and I gradually failed to meet her ENs, too many LBs, not enough LDs, etc…you all know the sad, sad drill. Needless to say, I loved her completely but failed to SHOW IT enough and ignorantly had NO IDEA that she was slowly slipping into the full “withdrawal state”. She, by her own tearful admission now, failed to communicate her ENs to me effectively and instead re-doubled her efforts to be the dutiful wife cause she was trying to impress me and was fearful that “I was getting tired of her and would leave.” Of course, no such thing was ever going to happen, I was utterly loyal to her and didn’t realize how insecure she was on the inside about my love for her—sad and crazy stuff…

Crisis: She separated from our home in 7/06 having “lost her love” and said all the same things you hear all walk-away’s say—“I love you but I’m not in love with you”, “I have lost my feelings and can’t get it back”, “It’s too late now”, etc. I made all the mistakes most left-behind spouses make—crying, begging, apologizing, promising, acting needy & desperate—I was heartbroken and ashamed of having neglected her and taken our M for granted for so long. She agreed to counseling and we also attended 2 marriage seminars together to (in her words) “see if I can give myself back to you—no promises, I have been hurt so deeply”. Well, that was all useless. She didn’t LISTEN to anything said, her “wall” was so high and she merely fluctuated between utter withdrawal and painful anger…finally cutting me off completely by hanging up the phone, not answering calls, refusing to spend any time together etc.

Divorce: She filed in 1/07 and I was told by her lawyer to have no contact with her other than to negotiate a settlement agreement (done in 2/07). Not unexpectedly, I discovered in 1/07 that she had secretly become involved with OM. He was a work acquaintance, much older, married, and going through his 3rd D (his 3rd W had filed on him in 9/07). Many months later she told me that she had been “lonely” and was commiserating with him for “companionship” during our crisis and “it just happened although I wasn’t looking for a R.” Best I can tell, they started hanging out in 8-10/06, a friendship became an EA and then a full PA by the time she decided to file. She immediately moved in with him as he was S from his 3rd W (usual rationalizations abounded: “you broke your vows 1st”, “God wants me to be happy”, etc.). Needless to say, full “fog” was present—we are both Christian believers and this is something she would NEVER had become involved with under “normal circumstances”…totally out of character for her. I exposed the A to her (out-of-town) family [everyone else in-town knew already, I found out from them]—caused angry rebuttals as expected but nothing else. Her father, whom she had a strained R with anyway, was the only one to my knowledge who expressed his firm disapproval on moral grounds--she angrily cut him off too. We had no contact beyond 2/07 and the legal D was finalized in 6/07. I was devastated and heartbroken.

Since D: I gradually tried to recover my life by reading, improving myself, and forgetting about her. Slowly started dating again, but still haven’t found anyone truly “special.” I had 1-2 contacts over the rest of ’07 with xW over money issues that were contentious and full of hurt and anger on both sides. I determined to “move on” and really gave up all realistic hope of reconciliation as I saw no evidence that it was possible. There was only 1 remaining tenuous social point-of-overlap between us: a gal (“N”) that was a friend of my xW and also a friend of one of my friend’s wife. Via this “grapevine” I heard (and I believe this was done intentionally by my xW knowing it would get back to me) that she was going to marry the OM as soon as his 3rd D was final. I don’t know whether that ever occurred legally as they supposedly had a “ceremony” in 10/07 but I later found out that he was still tied up in a contentious D that did not finalize until at least 12/07. Who knows…

New “twist”: In 5/08, being 95% “over it” at the time, I visited the house of my buddy/wife that I mentioned above. After no mention for a long time, they (long friends of mine and formerly of my xW as well) asked me if I had spoken to my ex. I said “not in 6 months—she doesn’t want to talk to me and I see no point in talking to her.” They then proceeded to curiously mention that “N” had spoken with her and that my xW was “unhappy” in her R/M (??? I don’t know what the status was/is) with OM. I played it off as no matter to me but it ate away at me for weeks, I admit. I finally decided that I needed to put this to rest once and for all for MY SAKE. I emailed my xW a long letter in 6/08—it was basically a belated, modified Plan B/”closure” letter that I adapted from a book I read on Christian divorce recovery. I admitted and took responsibility (for the 545th time) for my failures, I told her that I forgave her completely for her actions (which she had never owned up to), told I would always love her “from a distance”, and said a final “goodbye” and “I sincerely wish you the best in the path you have chosen and honor your free will.” I heard nothing from her until she texted me on July 4th (first contact she had initiated in over a year). She basically thanked me and “really appreciated your letter.” Weeks went by…I received a collection notice at our former house (I still live there) for a business bill she had apparently disputed. Reluctantly, I texted her and told her about it so she could attend to it. She responded by saying “I will call you tomorrow” (again 1st call from her in a LONG time). I was surprised that she even would consider talking to me.

Phone call: I dreaded the call—the awkward discomfort, the aloof coldness I anticipated, etc. Wow, I was wrong. It (just a few days ago) started out pleasant and funny small talk and then she proceeded to ask about my little brother’s recent wedding. I was taken aback—told her it was fun, I was proud of him, love my new sister-in-law, and asked “how do you even know about that?” Her tone became softer and tender: “Honey, I have ways of hearing about you…I was going to send something but did not know how it would be received.” She then asked about my elderly grandfather (they had loved each other very much—my xW came from a dysfunctional household and always treasured the loving acceptance she found in my family) and tearfully said “I think of him/them all the time”. The topic turned to “us” and our past (dangerous I know…it just happened) and it was totally different than it had been for 2 years. The “wall” was gone; the “old, sweet her” was back. I was astounded by how emotionally vulnerable and remorseful she was. She choked up many times telling me that she had been foolishly “hard-headed and I should have believed you”, “I am so sorry I took you for granted, too—you are a wonderful man”, “I am so sorry for not communicating better” and “what can I do for your hurts???” I was blown away—I told her that I wouldn’t tell her what to do—she had to decide that on her own between “you and God”. She said “please don’t apologize to me anymore—you have done that more than enough—I should have listened”. I can’t possibly capture the flavor of it completely here but this went on tenderly for a good 30 minutes. I did not push or pressure her (intentionally) for specific info, additional contact, or any “future talk” about us. She said to me “I will call you again soon, sweetie…I promise!” and we hung up with mutual terms of affection. We have had 2 short evening text “conversations” since about “fun stuff”.

Aftermath: I know her very well and I know that she is not faking. This was genuine—she is “missing” me and us in some way(s). Problem is, I don’t want to write too much into it and I don’t know what is truly going on in her head. Is this just the unburdening of guilt? Is she seeking for us to become “just friends”? Or is she “dipping her toe in the water” to see if I was open to rebuilding something more? I have NO CLUE. I have also no idea on the current status of her R with OM…and, of course, nothing is possible if she is still emotionally/legally attached to him. I suspect that something has changed substantially, but I will wait for her to tell me when/if that is the case. Deep down, I still do love and forgive her. I know this is long and bizarre…does anyone have any insights or advice???? Thank you so much for your patience!

SDCW,

Ok, that was LONG!

But, the gist is this - you're asking, "Is there a chance that we could patch this up and remarry?"

The answer is "Yes".

I know, because my husband's parents were actually divorced from one another for 8 years, due to an affair on my FIL's part. He married the OW, and was with her for 7 years. They divorced, and he went back to MIL, and they remarried, and have been together ever since. About 40 years, now.

My next-door neighbors, too. They got married when they were about 18 or 19. Divorced 2 years later. Then, about 3 or 4 years after that, they ran into each other, and have been together ever since. They have been married about 16 years or so.

I would say that the two of you should call the Harleys and give it a few counseling sessions - what the heck. You might just find out that there is still something there for you.

This divorce might never have happened if you had found this website first!


SB

It sounds to me like when the going gets tough, she looks for another man. She did that with him to you, and not she might enjoy adultery with you.

I would stay way clear until she is divorced, and then I would take lots of time before I got very close to her.

Sorry!!!! I didn't catch that she wasn't divorced yet!

Do not interfere in this marriage until that divorce is done.

Period.

To commit adultery in another marriage is wrong. Period. Even with your ex.

SB

Did your plan B letter tell WW that you can not have contact with her until she ends her realtionship/marriage with OM?

If not then you have not started plan B. By talking you are letting WW fence sit and string you along.

If she is married you talking with her is the start of an EA. Do not go there. Again your WW must finish with OM and move out. IF WW wed then must divorce OM before she can contact you.

I agree...I do not know what the status of her R is currently with the OM. I do not know if they ever even became legally married in the first place last year.

I understand why you would write what you did in your initial paragraph, but I am staying clear of moral judgements here...that is for God to convict, not me. Believe me, she knows what she did was adultery and she knows I would never participate in that with ANYONE. Thank you for your thoughts

SB:

Thanks for your insights. I actually found this website back then (as well as much other material--one of the seminars we went to was by Dr. Gary Chapman, sure you know him). I tried EVERYTHING...she would not hear of it and she wouldn't have listened to the Harley's back then either. [My FIL, HER dad, called me to say "no man ever tried harder, I'm so sorry"] I didn't find out about the EA/PA until AFTER she filed and cut off complete contact with me, so I doubt anything would have changed her mind BACK THEN--she simply was in no position emotionally to listen to anything but her own feelings (negative ones toward me, positive ones toward OM).

As for your examples of couples getting back together, there is something else I forgot to mention earlier that may be playing into her change of demeanor now that the "fog" is lifting/has lifted. My xW has an older half-sister ("LN") she is very close with and I know they speak on the phone fairly frequently. LN and her H were also very close to me and the 4 of us travelled together a twice a year. Years ago, LN's husband had an A with OW and divorced her. His A with OW of course ended and the 2 of them re-married ~3yrs post-D and have been together for 15 years since. I wouldn't be surprised if LN is whispering that in my xWs ear right now ... I know that LN and her H thought she was "making a BIG mistake" back in late '06--they called and told me so then.

You are divorced from her. At this moment, you have no marital relationship with her. You have started a flirtatious relationship with a woman that you suspect is married or is living with a man where a psuedo marriage ceremony was made. If you continue to have these flirtatous conversations with her, you are basically becoming an "other man" in her life. This is no way to begin a relationship with any woman.

Stop going down this path. Write a plan B letter that lets her know there is a path back to you. But that path involves her getting single. Others on this site can add further guidance to a Plan B letter. But stop being an "other man" in her life.

Everyone:

I have posted this thread in several forums to garner a wide variety of input. Thank you all for your kind responses...which seem to lead to the Plan B option.

I have thought about this very carefully and agree. I stayed up into the wee hours of the morning last night to compose an appropriate Plan B letter for my situation. I guess I will mail it "certified" early this week so I know that she has indeed received it. Thank you again and I would appreciate any follow-up anyone cares to offer.

Your plan to mail her a plan B letter sounds like the best thing at this point.

All we can really say now is let us know what is going on AND if you get to feeling like you just need some of us to talk to to make it through until you get your answer - this is the place to come.

Best Wishes,
RMW

UPDATE

Well, I did mail her a very well written Plan B letter this morning and emailed it to her as well. Guess what? I received 2 emails back from her within hours and the news is not good. Here they are:

"I understand.

Thank you for taking the time to write this to me.

Love always,
me"


A few hours later, she sent another entitled "one more thing":

"Not only will I respect your request, I respect that fact that you made
it. I feel the same way and that's why I didn't engage in a text
conversation with you on Friday when you texted to tell me you had a
great day. I'm glad you had a great day - I hope you continue to have
great days.

You're a great person, a great man. I wish you the best today and
tomorrow and for a lifetime of tomorrows.

I have loved you for many years, and I'm sure I will for years to come.
I'm sorry for many things, but not sorry for having you in my life. You
taught me many things and am grateful for who you are and, at one time,
for who we were. I believe that God changes people and God changes
things. I pray for you and each of your family members. I pray for
peace, love and joy in their homes and in your home and that all your
needs are met. I ask for your forgiveness and thank you for listening
to me.

I'm glad you understand that I'm at a new place in a different life. I
do love my life and my family. I love my son that I never had before
and the child I will have. I love my 4 legged barking friends that I
always wanted and the yard they can play in. I love my friends - the
people I have now seen to be my true friends - and I love my home that
my family and I have created. I can only hope that you can feel the
love in the future that I do now.

Be good, be well, be faithful. I will leave you alone, but know I'm
only a thought away.

love, me"


There you have it.....I feel like a damn fool

don't be too hard on yourself. A "damn fool" would still pursue her. Take this information and get her out of your life for good.

Move on. Be happy.

Don't be a fool. You got what all BSes hope for. You got an apology and validation that you're not some terrible person.

That is something that should give you peace.

But her behavior shows she's messed up.

She has a kid on the way?

I'm assuming you're young and didn't have kids with her.

If so, then move on and learn your lessons from her. Hard to know what lessons to learn since you appear to have married what appeared to be a good woman. Who knows why she went off the deep end. Most of us never really understand how or why our spouses transformed into the heartless, insensitive creatures that loved you one day and can't stand to be near you the next.

You will always miss your wife, the woman you knew before she became wayward. But she's long gone, or is now showing herself again, but only after creating a wake of destruction behind her.

You'll miss the friend you had and will no longer be able to share the beautiful memories that you can only have with someone you're with. You can share the stories of the joy you felt at the birth of your children, but no one understands the stories like the person that lived it with you. That is now all gone.

So now you move forward and create a new life. You're young and can find love again. Love can be found at any age. And you will forever be able to look in the mirror and know that you never cheated on your spouse. THAT is the one thing that you will forever be able to take with you from the ordeal and hell she put you through.

Don't feel like a fool. A little part of us always loves the person that you once pledged to be with till you died. She pulled on that remaining 5% of your heart and you felt confusion and heard words you longed to hear for years. You're human and you loved. There is no shame in that.

Now let this woman be, because she'll break your heart again. The fact that she's contacting you after what appears to be a marriage to another man says everything.

Carry on, my friend. Be happy that you loved someone once and loved her till she died. She's been reborn as someone new that you don't know. The woman you loved, however, is dead and you loved her to the end.

I wish you the best.

SDCWman,

Ok, I'm confused. Let's review the bidding here for a moment.

I am gathering from her email, that she IS married. I gather that she is either pregnant or wanting to become pregnant by her H. I gather that she is happy in her life with her new in-laws.

If all that I have said is true, then not only are you NOT a damned fool. You have done the only honorable thing you could do...stay out of her marriage.

No matter how much you love her, she does not love you in the same manner. No matter how you hope and wish things to be different, they are not. She clearly shut the door because she will not leave OM.

I must ask you, how old are you? And more importantly what have you learned from this very difficult experience about yourself and relationships?

One thing you should also know, if she is really married to OM, her boundaries are NOT very good. She was talking to another man behind his back, and she was leading you to think there might be something there, whether there was or not from her side of it. She is NOT a woman you would want a relationship with at this point.

I hesitate to say you are a lucky man, but I will say you have gotten more and better closure than most BS' do here. Please sit back and review the lessons learned, and the proceed to live your life by those lessons. Good things will come to you.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Speak to your friends about all of this. And tell them that you sent her a letter removing yourself from her life while she is still married (or just with) OM. They need to know what has happened as well.

That's the word I was looking for. "Closure".

You got it. Enjoy it because most BSes never get it or it takes years to get it if it ever does come.

Certainly stay away from her. If you're young and with no kids, then nothing has been lost other than time. But you've emerged a better man, armed with MB knowledge on how to have a healthy marriage, so you didn't lose but actually gained some extremely valuable knowledge on how to make a future marriage succeed.

Keep us informed. It would be great to hear more about you like your age and if you have kids.

In his initial post, he mentions they had no kids.

Personally, I'm skeptical of his ex's claims to happiness (and her claim she is pregnant), but I agree that if she is still living with OM, especially if she is married to him, he should stay away.

Boy, are you guys savants? That is exactly what 2 friends of mine has said!

I'm 39, xW is 36...no kids (thankfully given this situation)

Then count your lessons learned and move on from this woman. Yes, she hurt you deeply. But there are plenty of good women out there and you're young enough to still have a family.

Consider yourself lucky.

I mentioned your sitch to my therapist last night (was talking about how I use MB to help me heal) and told her your story. She said that your ex sounds like a case of "one upmanship". She said her response to your Plan B letter was to tell you about how wonderful her life is and how great things are without you as a defensive reaction to your perceived rejection.

Made sense to me.

So chew on that regarding her response.

Cuthbert & Pom:

I have thought much about what you wrote and thank you--you are both very intuitive.

After our warm (and even tender) talk and then my Plan B letter, my xW reacted with an immediate response (very different from the past when she would often ignore my "chase" efforts). She emailed me to say "I got your letter and I understand" but then, within a few hours, just had to email again to say "one more thing". Which was actually many things as the text indicates. Why?

1. She felt the need to "prove" to me that she is satisfied with her past decisions by showing how much "better off" she now is. After all, she now has that dog and yard she wanted as though those things were not far more available here...
2. She was unburdening some guilt she feels without ever truly admitting much. Showering compliments and best wishes on me is way for her to feel better about herself and her betrayal.
3. She was seeking some sort of validation from me that is "ok" to do what she has done. My Plan B letter spoke of mutual forgiveness but was also very clear on me NOT giving approval or condoning her recent/current life choices.


I do not know if she is pregnant, but I doubt it. I wonder if OM even would want to have more kids. I believe he has 2-3 of his own from 2 different marriages. I am sure he is paying support on them and undoubtedly alimony as well.

As far as her being "happy", Cuthbert, that is anyone's guess. She may indeed feel loved and accepted there and thus "be happy." However, I did hear a few months ago via "N" that she was/had been "unhappy". Maybe her happiness is real, maybe it is something she is "forcing herself to feel" even though the grass is not greener, or maybe she is quite unhappy but must keep up a good front to me to avoid appearing foolish.

Who knows....