New here - 1st time post. WOW until MY H affair I never knew they were so COMMON, sad but true. D-Day was April 9th 08 for me. I thought I was alone until I read so many books on affairs, 6 to be exact. This forum is shocking - all the stories are so similiar. So many affairs follow the same pattern and cause so much distruction. I have been wondering WHEN - HOW long it would take to overcome these feelings of anger and pain. Looks like it may be a while looking at some of the posts.

My H works (also common) with the female he had an affair with - this is the hard part for me. The relationship has ended but they still see one another daily. He says he has NO contact with her now at work. Changing jobs is not possible at this time but would be down the road.

Anyone have any advice about this?

Thank You!

AGE - 42
Married 12 years
One Child
D-Day April 9th 2008

Changing jobs is ALWAYS possible. It's just a matter of priorities. The marrige MUST come first.

yes, I have advice. Whatever you have done to convince yourself that his changing jobs is not possible...get over it.
There is ZERO chance for recovery while the affair partners are in contact....for ANY reason.

No contact is vital and there cannot be no contact when they see one another daily.

You will find that it will get no easier. You will never rest easy so long as your husband has contact with the woman he slept with. Whatever initially attracted him to her can again appear even though he may give you assurances that it cannot. The next time that he comes home late from work you will wonder why. When he says that he is off to the golf course or softball field you will wonder if there is more to tell. She is in the picture so long as she is in the picture.

Will he solicit advice from her the next time he and you have a disagreement?

Is this “other woman” married? Does she have children? Does her husband know that she has had intercourse with your husband?

You will survive your husband changing jobs much easier than your marriage will survive your husband’s contact with the other woman.

Mr. G

You are all correct. I can't stand him going to work each day knowing she's there. He will need to choose the job or his family. And to answer your questions, YES she was married with 2 small children. She divorced her husband to be with my husband, so she's waiting in the wings for him to leave me but he refuses. He says she no longer means anything to him.

Don't be so sure. He could be trying to protect OW.

Odds are, she was screwing around on her H, just like your H was/is.

It sure wouldn't hurt to go ahead and give her "ex" husband a call anyway, would it?

Sorry you find yourself here. Like you I too am learning to give up on the fantasy of "automatic monogomy". I am learning in order to have a monogomous relationship you have to work on it everday. Now that my H has had an A ( I still dont like saying that) I feel like for the rest of my life I will have to be in monogomy rehab, What have I done today to ensure the health of my relationship?

Dont let the amount of A's make you feel hopeless. Read around the board and see how many have recovered and are happy in their marriages after A's and take hope in that you (and I ) can overcome this and heal and be happy again.

You will get a lot of good information and advise here.
Good luck.

Yes!! Insist he change jobs NOW!! Your marriage will never recover if they work together. That is like expecting an alcoholic to sober up by calling his drinks "business drinks." Ain't going to happen. Unless your H is an endentured servant in outer Mongolia, he can leave the job.


Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Lifechoice post on THE AFFAIR ADDICTION http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2048341&fpart=1

Quote:
He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE.


I can certainly attest to this. My situation is a prime example of what not to do. I kept myself stuck in withdrawal for over 2 years because I continued to work with my FOM. In these 2 years I had no desire to get back into the A, I just couldn't break free of my addiction.

After I ended the A I learned about the addiction part of it and agreed it was a huge part of it. The scary part of the addiction is during the 2 years FOM and I worked together I didn't even realize how much I was still addicted to him. We did our best to remain professional, but the addiction was still there and kept me very stuck. I couldn't get over certain aspects of the A, but couldn't figure out why. (duh). I thought I had a good handle on it, but in all reality I didn't. It wasn't until after FOM left our employer and moved out of town that I finally could get through withdrawal. I should also add it was this bad for me and I only worked about 6 days a month. I can only imagine it would be much worse for someone who works with the AP on a full-time basis.

Now every time I read where AP's are still working together I just cringe. I wasted 2 years of my time in withdrawal and at the same time for one of the years trying to rebuild my marriage. Talk about a lot of mental anguish and conflict.

My advice to everyone from a BTDT POV, a WS needs to get as far away from the AP as they can.

LC

LuvTheSouth - There are consequences to all actions, and the action of adultery is no different.

RECOVERY from infidelity is "in the hands of the Betrayed Spouse."

YOU set the requirements for staying with him and attempting to recover your marriage.

If you decide that No Contact, for any reason, is a requirement for YOU staying in the marriage, then he either agrees with you or he doesn't. Then you are into "Boundary" issues.

Here's the key difference between Standards and Boundaries, so you are clear on them.

STANDARDS are those things a person will not allow them to do TO another person. They are what guides your "choices" in life.

BOUNDARIES are those things a person will not allow "TO BE DONE TO me." Boundaries have consequenes attached to them for anyone who violates your personal boundaries. YOU determine the consequences and YOU determine the implementation of those consequences.

If you feel that his job is needed for the family benefit for a short time until he can find a different job, then that is your call. But please DO understand that NO Contact MUST be implemented before you can have a serious recovery effort, let alone reach a "recovered" marriage.

Keeping some "candy" around is a constant temptation.
Keeping cocaine around a recovering drug addict is a constant temptation.
Keeping an affair partner around is both a constant temptation AND an incredibly disrespectful thing to do TO a Betrayed Spouse who has CHOSEN to attempt forgiveness and recovery rather than divorce.

Think about it.

God bless.

Thank you all for your posts. It gave me a lot to think about. My husband will begin looking at transfer options to another state within his company ASAP. I have agreed to TRY to be patient, TRY to control my emotions until something comes open. His work of over 300 emploayees KNOW about the affair and are watching them. I have all the email, work phone, cell phone passwords. And I am still in the "drive by the office" stage a few times per day. He has to call me many times a day with his schedule and lunch plans. I am still in the beginning stages of all this and learn a little more each day. Thanks for the help!

wannamoveforward,

Our D-Day's are close so we are in the same stage. I have read some of your posts, as if they were my words exactly. Our stories are very similar.

LUVTHESOUTH

Jobs are expendable.

Marriages are not.

Luv,

Cheaters lie.

You need to do a few things.

1. Contact the OW's husband. You don't know FOR SURE that they are in fact divorced. You probably have "heard" they are divorced or divorcing - but you may not have the truth on it all. That OW's H might be in the dark on the affair, and he may be fighting something he knows nothing about! And if it turns out that she in fact divorced him, and never revealed the affair, he may have some legal issues he can re-submit to the court because if she lied about the affair or reason for divorce, then she cheated him there and probably owes him some money. He might thank you for the information. Either way, he deserves to know the truth about why his marriage broke up.

2. Install a keylogger on your computer. Your husband is still working with the woman, and may be in contact with her without you knowing it. It is worth spying on him, and even though things might seem to be going okay, the keylogger will ease your mind and keep the record for you. Better safe on that front, especially if she is "waiting in the wings" for him.

3. Get your cell phone company to maintain a call-by-call record for you, and have it mailed monthly. Don't accept an online record, which your husband (or OW) can delete.

4. Get passwords to all of his emails from him. Including work emails. Regularly check them. Tell him that he is not to delete any emails from the deleted items until you have checked it, and not from the sent box either.

5. He needs to write a "no contact" letter to the OW. You read it, you approve it, and YOU mail it. And nowhere in that letter does he say anything about his "love" for her, no-no-no. That means no contact for life, and he needs to be very clear about this in the letter. If he needs help, there are examples in many of the threads on this website.

6. Get him on board with the basic concepts here. He doesn't have to post, etc., but he should begin to understand the concepts of how to rebuild your marriage, and so should you. This is a LONG process, and he needs to understand that it isn't going to really start until he stops daily contact with the OW.


SB

Sorry to be member of the D-day club Not a membership i wouldhave signed up for, nevertheless I am glad you and I both found this site.
I am happy that schoolbus had taken you under her wing. She continues to be a tremendous source of hope ( her recovery) and inspiration and advise to me.
I hope you will pay close attention to her post to you and allow her widsom in this matter to give you direction on what to do next to help yourself.
Not sure if you got any of the books yet, But I did pick up His Needs her needs and How to survive and affair and they were ( and continue to be) very helpful to me.
One evenng I was so desperate and ran to the book store and read while I sat in the lounge there. It was soothing and felt like a lifeline. If you have an oppurtunity to check them out I would highly recomend them.
Other than that brew a cup of tea and pull up a chair and read here and pick up what ever you can from all the threads. You will start to see that the details might be different but the pattern in all A's and recoveries is pretty consistant.
Oh dont forget to breathe .

Thanks Ladies for the posts. And to respond I've just finished my 6th book on Affairs, to include Harley's. I read articles from this website and any and everything I can get my hands on. And Yes we have already done the no contact letter and that was broken my husband called her 4 times after that but did tell me about it. He says he has not had contact with her except at work when he sees her. They work in a building of over 400 emplyees.

Next I have talked with her husband - He's the one who called ME to tell me about the affair. We email one another sometimes to check out "stories".

The bottom line is he's sorry, he's embarrassed, he knows the damage he's done. The affair lasted right at 1 year right up under my nose. In his mind, he just wants to hurry up and move on and let's just be happy. He cannot handle my emotions. It's been almost 4 months I should be over it by now. BUT the wound gets opened up everyday since they work together.

Sometimes I want to give up but I will still have to experience the pain and anger, you cannot escape it.

You'll heal in your own time and four months is WAY too short to heal.

Will he read "Surviving An Affair" with you?
That will help him understand why it takes you so long to heal, why you ask so many questions, why it is so important for him to change jobs, and a host of other things.

That's GREAT that he told you about contact. I hope you thanked him for telling you.

ok, you do understand that telling you about it does not solve the problem? If an alcoholic takes a DRINK and tells you about it every time, it does not mean the damage of those drinks is erased. HE IS STILL DRUNK. Telling you about contact will not facilitate recovery or erase the fact that RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE AS LONG AS HE IS IN CONTACT.

Every time he sees her at work, his feelings are triggered and he goes back to Day 1 of recovery. Every day he sees her puts you back to Day 1 of recovery. Your h is in a state of perpetual withdrawal and will eventually give into to the temptation when a weak moment collides with opportunity. And he has an opportunity EVERY DAY he goes to work.


Those 400 employees did not prevent their affair in the past and they won't in the future. Contact at work *IS* contact. He is in contact EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY.

I would not be "patient" about his leaving this job, Luv, because your patience is endangering your marriage and endangering your mental health. Having to wonder EVERY DAY if this is the day he will have a weak moment [and he won't tell you!] is mental torture.

And most importantly, RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE AS LONG AS CONTACT CONTINUES.

Luv,

Mel is right. Every time he has any kind of contact with the OW, it sets you back to day one in your mind, and in his mind.



Has he done any reading with you at all?

Also, it isn't uncommon for the wayward spouse to want the BS to "get over it". The WS wants to stop talking about it, because it reminds them of what they did, and they don't want to have to talk about it. There are many reasons for not wanting to talk about it.

One reason is the feeling of betrayal of the affair partner. When the wayward talks to the spouse about the affair, the wayward might feel like they are betraying the secrets of the affair - and they might want to keep those secrets close, because it keeps that affair "special". It helps to break the fantasy of the affair to get the WS to talk openly about the affair, because the fewer secrets there are between the affair partners, and the more light there is shed on the affair, the more apparent it becomes that that the affair had NOTHING SPECIAL about it - and the fantasy bubble breaks apart.

Another reason for not wanting to talk about it is simple shame. It's very hard to talk about something that you have done wrong and feel stupid about doing! Not only that, when you are questioned in detail about it, why you did it, exactly when, where, how, what you talked about, etc., well...the shame and embarrassment can be overwhelming. Your husband may be simply too embarrassed and guilty, and wants to just hide what he has done and never talk about it again.

What he doesn't understand is that talking about this can create so much intimacy and closeness between the two of you that it can make your marriage become much better than it was before. The opportunity here is tremendous, if you two talk about this in the right way.

I'd like you to read the thread on body language and memory that I put together, so you don't get into marathon talks with him, and so he and YOU can feel safe and trustworthy during the talking sessions. One of the problems after an affair is that people get into these marathon sessions of talking - and the waywards just wear out. They cannot take it! The endless sessions, which seem to go from topic to topic, and the streams of emotional upheaval that are all due to their poor choices - this is an extremely stressful event for a person. So the "rules" I suggest in the thread are to help the BS keep some limitations on the talks, so as to make them much more productive, and in turn encourages the wayward to open up and freely participate in them. The BS will learn so much more, and the marriage partners will grow more intimacy as well.

If you use the rules, your talks will be much more calm, and you will feel much better afterward. So will your husband.

Use them for good talks, too - not only for "relationship" talks.



The best part is, you don't have to have any cooperation from him to get started.


SB