We all have read here that "affairs don't last" and many of us have taken (some) comfort in that. But is that always true?

The theory is that A's are based on secrecy and passion and once revealed and Plan A/B'd, the A crumbles as the "thrill" dissipates and guilt and reality set in.

That may often be the case but not always. Sometimes that A partners become convinced that this is the "real thing" and better than their M's were or could be....and they marry each other.

I know of several such scenarios personally among acquaintances and my xWW married her OM as soon as his 3rd D was finalized (a few months after ours was). In the little contact I have had with her since, I know explicitly that she feels guilty about hurting me, wants my "forgiveness" (i.e. validation that it is OK for her to continue with her "new life"), and even has admitted to regretting being so 'hard-headed' with me and 'taking me for granted' in the past.

Yet, she "is happy" with her new life, has confessed to no specific 'mistakes', and plans to stay in the affair/M (despite massive social/ethical/moral compromises).

I think sometimes they (both) may have so much invested in the R that they just must continue....hmmm?

There was a thread earlier this week about this. My Wstbx is also in a LTA that looks like it's headed for marriage as soon as both their divorces go through. They have already financially invested heavily in it. They also put out the message that they are "happy" - including an email sig that says "OW, WstbxH and OWDD, life doesn't get any better" (OWH pukes everytime she sends him an email - I have WstbxH blocked so I don't see it. But how do you really know they are truly happy? Honestly, in your happiest days, would you have set up an email sig like that? Is it not a bit sappy and sickening - even if it wasn't an affair it was refering to?

Your xWW has lost a lot. Probably so has her OM. I'm talking about friends, family, respect, whatever financial losses they took in the separation/divorce etc. These proclamations of happiness are justifications in and of themselves to try to convince others that they "did the right thing". I believe one day they will have trouble convincing themselves. But by then, there are no friends left and few family members willing to support them. If there are, they have to swallow their pride and admit to these few people that stood by them, possibly at the expense of losing others themselves, that they were wrong.

My Wstbx tells me he's sorry for the pain he cause me. He's not. He's sorry that my pain caused him so much hassle and grief, but he's not sorry for the actual pain but he hasn't fully acknowledged that it exists. I believe that's what this statement is all about as well: Until she sees your pain as the consequence of her actions, rather than the cause of her trouble, she will never be remorseful.

SDCWman,

Some affairs do lead to marriages. But most of those do not make it 5 years. I think the number is 3%. OM is now on marriage #4, what are the odds that he has learned anything other than how to seduce women? Not high. What are the odds that he will become bored with #4 and try and seduce another woman? I like those odds myself. What are the odds that your xW has really learned from what she has done to you, given that she will not even really apologize and still blames you? Not real high. What are the odds that they will wake up a few love busters from now and start to distrust one another? I like those odds as well.

What are the odds that you can do better? I like those odds as well. What are the odds that you will learn from this and be a better partner in your next marriage? I'm thinkin of placing some money on this one.


Focus on your future. Focus on enjoying your life and the people in it. Focus on being a success (as defined by YOU). And remember
I am not big on revenge, but I am big on a life well lived. I also believe that the charma "cement truck" will come rolling around the corner and smack them. I don't worry about those things much. I do think focus on a life well lived takes care of many things.

God Bless,

JL

That is truly evil (and as Tabby put it, totally contrived)!

There is a poster here named Bugsmom whose Wayward Husband divorced her and moved in with his affair partner. In recent weeks, he broke up with OW, and just last night, she says, they had a very dramatic phone conversation where he confessed how unhappy he has been, how he knew his affair was wrong, and how he knows he has screwed up his life. She, in turn, told him that she'd had no idea he was so unhappy - that she thought he'd been "living the dream" the whole time.

Read it here - you'll need to scroll down about half the page. There was a lot more to her conversation, but the point that sticks out in my mind was how, to all appearances, he seemed happy - but he really wasn't.

I'd suspect your wife is in similar straits. I really, really doubt she is happy, and her claims of being so happy make it even harder for me to believe it. In my opinion, she wants to convince you she is happy - and more importantly, she wants to convince herself she is happy.

Does she have so much invested in her current marriage that she will never leave it? That's a valid question, and I have no idea. But she's not the only one involved - remember, she is with Mr. Three Times Divorced, who doesn't have a very good track record in this area. She may well find herself dumped one day, like XW1, XW2, and XW3. That would be the smart way to bet, anyway.

I think you really made the right choice by not getting involved with her while she is married. It's been a couple of years for you, hasn't it, so my advice would be for you to go out and live your life... and enjoy your life. A former MB poster named Star*Fish used to say "this is the only life I get". If you're not looking for someone right now, that's fine, you can take your time and be choosy. I think odds are very good your XW will find herself single again in the next year or so... but don't put your life on hold waiting for it.

Totally agree. It sounds so grade-school, only more evil.

Thanks to all...your comments are great and helpful, much appreciated.

I would bet that most if not all BSs don't want to think of their WSs as "happy" and want to be reassured that they are correct in that suspicion. The BS is hurt that OP has taken "their place" and is receiving the affection and attention from the WS that is "rightfully theirs." The BS is angry & jealous about that...it is natural and their ego wants to feel worthy of the WS's "love" again. The BS also feels justifiably wronged and doesn't want see "cheaters prosper" so to speak.

With the exception of those people who truly never took their marital commitment seriously from the get-go, I gather that most WSs feel:

--that "they had no choice"
--guilty about leaving/hurting BS, but that "they had to do what is best for themselves"
--that their new-found "love" for/with OP validates the moral compromises the WS makes
--that the prior mistakes/emotional neglect of the BS justify the A (i.e. He/she "left me first" or "forgot about me" or "didn't care about me") I heard all of these...
--that they had "fallen out of love" with the BS (i.e. lost attraction) and "couldn't get their feelings back"
--that their 'new life' with the OP is/will be better than the M with the BS was or could ever be ("it's too late", "people can't change", etc.)
--that the BS will "recover" and be fine, so why worry

GENDER DIFFERENCES
Women are more likely to D men, then the other way around (women account for about 70% of filings). I do not have stats on this, but I would postulate that female departing waywards are far less likely to eventually reconcile with their BHs, than the opposite scenario. I suspect that this likely has much to do with the gender differences between men & women as far as romantic attraction goes. Attraction for men is 'quick-on' and initially primarily visual/physical. Attraction for women is slower to heat up and depends much more on personality and emotional connection than visual appeal.

Sex for men is either a vehicle to deeper emotional intimacy or purely a lustful release. For most women, emotional intimacy is a vehicle for sex; most WWs probably don't have pure-PAs, they have companionships that lead to EAs that lead to PAs.

I could be very wrong, but my guess is that many/most WHs have A's that are mainly about sexual fulfillment and don't develop a deeper emotional connection as readily with the OW. My converse guess is that many/most WWs have A's that are mainly about emotional connection first (usually becoming a PA later) and thus feel "bonded" more loyally to the OM.

I think that likely explains why WWs would reconcile less readily (unless OM dumps them 1st).

Interesting thoughts - I agree with some but not completely. It's true I don't want to think of WstbxH as "happy", nor do I want to see cheaters prosper. I'm also frustrated that society turns a blind eye to what they do. At the same time, I don't really think WstbxH truly IS "happy". It's almost a case of "methinks he doth protest too much" in the way they try to appear "happy" and thrust it upon others as strongly as they do. Perhaps I am reading too much into the situation. It's funny you suggest that BS's are angry and jealous. Angry - yes. Jealous - except in the initial fallout of d-day, no. Funnily enough, I'm not jealous. Why? Because of the permanent rifts they have created between themselves and all of their loved ones. Because of everything they gave up so they could be together. Because of that poor little girl whose life has been torn apart repeatedly for their "love". Because there's no way possible that none of this will come back and haunt them. So no, I'm not jealous. I got the better end of the stick and I know it. I have my self respect.

As for your list of justifications - yes, that is what WS's tell themselves. That is how they explain what they did. But all are without foundation and sound reasoning. They add to this list to try to compensate for it, but in the end they have to live with their choices.

I agree with your gender differences, though my WstbxH DID find emotional attachment and is filing for D.

I'm curious as to the flip side of this - who is more likely to take back a WS - a BH or a BW? And does it matter if it's an EA or PA? For myself, had WstbxH's simply been a PA, I could have forgiven him. The fact that it was an EA as well (and probably if it had ONLY been an EA) made it worse.

Tabby:

Thanks for your input.

How does your WH try to "protest too much" or go out of his way to "appear that he is happy" to you? I imagine, since you apparently have a D together, that you still have substantial contact with him. I do not with my xWW except for a recent phone call and emails detailed elsewhere on this forum (tell me how to link it and I will)--yes, she did go out of her way to detail how happy she is in her new M to OM. I doubt it and have heard otherwise via the grapevine. Obviously though, she is far more "committed" to her OP than your WH is to his as this point.

What I meant by "jealous" is not jealous of what the WS has in the OP but jealous that WS is expending their romantic/emotional energy on someone other than the BS seeking to reconcile/restore their M. Make sense?



True, but live with their choices and reasonings they will until/unless something dramatically changes in their R with the OP right? WSs don't seem to give their BSs much serious thought until their new R falls apart.



I don't know whether a BH or a BW is more likely...my guess would be a BW (esp. if kids are involved). Both EAs and PAs hurt. Speaking as a BH with a WW, I could more easily forgive an EA that never went "the distance" than a PA. I won't get too detailed here, but there is something about your W "accepting" OMs private parts into her own that is really hard to overcome mentally. Nothing is truly unforgiveable but feeling that your W has basically prostituted her most intimate self to another man (esp. one who is WAY beneath the "real" her you used to value) comes pretty close.

I recently attended a D support group where they warned us about dating too soon, not taking time to heal etc. Anyway, the stats that were given there were 78% of second M fail, 86% of third M fail, and 98% of 4th M fail. I wouldn't be so sure that they are blissfully happy given that this is his 4th? The man obviously doesn't know how to commit to a relationship.

On the subject of affairages lasting. I think some do, but I have to think there is everlasting regret. My old boss left his W of 20+ years (couple of grown kids) to M OP who also had a long term M with FIVE grown kids. He told me once that it hangs over him somedays like a black cloud. One or two of her children won't talk to her. Last I heard they have been M over 14 years, and I'm sure the M has become just another M (the thrill probably long worn off) But, I have to believe that now in their 60's and facing old age and death they have to be wondering if they made the right choice.

I wouldn't want to be in that postion.....

I am familiar with those statistics and even quoted them and the high likelihood of eventual regret to my WW way back then (I know now that logic plays NO role in a WS's decision-making). Her responses were:
"Well, that is just a chance I'll have to take" and
"I really don't think I am ruining my life, (me)" and
"XXXX (her older sister) re-married XXXX (Her H-they had D over his affair) and now she regrets doing that" [not true at all, they have been together for 15 yrs. since]

She HAS TO KNOW the obvious red flags with the OM and chose to overlook them. 2 of his 3 prior M's were ended by the women, so my guess is that he likely "strayed" when he got the "itch" (avg. duration of his prior M's is about 7 years). My xWW, who was always trim and fit, has put on 40 or so pounds of extra weight over the last 12-18 months, so I wouldn't be surprised if his eye starts to wander sooner since the "honeymoon" phase is now over. I wonder if her (very unusual for her) weight gain is caused by "emotional eating" over stress/guilt/unhappiness OR a result of "letting herself go" as she feels secure and content in the new R/M. Who knows.....????

I would agree with what you wrote even when affairs do last. Any R is going to have its down times and during those down times the former WS is naturally going to think back of their ex-BS and wonder "what is he/she up to?" and "what might have been if I had listened..."

I know my xWW already is having these thoughts based on her information gathering about me, nostalgia for former loved ones in my family, and her recent expressions of guilt for having been so "hard-headed" and "taking for granted" with regard to me. She has also acknowledged her considerable communication mistakes in not making her discontent more easily known and assuming things about me that were not true without even bothering to ask. I wouldn't want to have those mental "loose ends" in my mind either--they have to torment one's psyche over time.

I may have been unclear. We do not have a D together. His OW has a D with her stbxH. I have a grown S so there are few reasons we need to contact each other. We do play in the same baseball league so I see him (and OW) at games sometimes but we never speak there. What I mean by "protesting too much" is mostly from what I hear from others. Things like that email sig I mentioned earlier and other stuff that gets back to me. Think about it - when you have been happy in your M (or anything else for that matter), other than right at the beginning when you are first married, you don't go around telling people how happy you are. You just ARE happy. Stbx and OW have been living together for nearly 16 months now, with the affair going on at least 8 or 9 months before that - possibly more. Yet they can't keep quiet about that fact.



This makes sense except it's not true in all cases. Perhaps I didn't get to plan B soon enough, but I have definitely lost all love for stbxH and would be disgusted if he were to seek reconciliation at this time. Perhaps it's the fog or whatever, but he's not the man I thought he was.


I don't think it necessarily takes a dramatic change. One day they are going to wake up and realize their OP also burps, farts, spends too much money on something or another, is too fat, too thin, has a different standard of housecleaning or whatever it was they claimed was wrong with you as a BS. I would even wager that this is one of the first wedges that comes between a WS and their OP resulting in the crappy statistics.

I never thought my exes affair would end. He was head over heels with this ho. Gave up A LOT for her. Did anything for her. I used to think it was she that worshiped the ground he walked on but I now think it was the opposite.

After them being together for a few years, I think either things started to sour or she gave him an ultimatum. Suddenly, I got served with divorce papers. I didn't care by that point, bring them on, I wanted the divorce just wasn't going to pay for it as I had paid for the separation. Not long after he filed, she dumped him for a guy she had been cheating on HIM with!

So, I would say that some do last (my father's marriage is an example. He married one of his affair partners and they have been married almost twenty years. Rocky years albeit, but it has lasted). But most do not last. I really thought when I got those D papers it was so they could get married. HA! (and thank GOD for answered prayers. In all of heaven and earth I did NOT want that woman to be my kids stepmother!!!!!)

That is a generalization. No one says that ALL AFFAIRS don't last. It is estimated that 95% of affairs fail. Some don't.

My XH has been with his OW for 9 years now. He won't marry her, but they are still together.

The reason that most fail is because the traits that made the affair possible, deceit, thoughtlessness, selfishness, eventually destroy the affair.