Resilient,


If she says so, Resilient. But, she seems remarkably resistent to exposure to her H for someone that has been here 8 years.

I think we all agree she is going to have to tell him and it will be very very painful, as these things usually are.

Appreciate the heads up though.

JL

JL, you really are a night owl aren't you.

Emmy seems to have disappeared for now. I hope she doesn't disappear forever.

Jen,

computers never sleep so I am up at all hours doing thing and checking on my calculations.

JL

Thank you to those who genuinely offered advice. I am taking it all into consideration and have taken action.

I didn't come here for sympathy. Good thing, because there was none here. Mostly betrayed spouses looking for someone to punish for what they have been through. Not exactly the help I expected to find, and I was absolutely blindsided.

I came here, like most WS, distraught, confused and borderline suicidal. Do you realize you could push someone right over the edge with your cruelty? You almost did me. You'll never know how close I came. I have honestly never seen people so anxious to kick someone when they're down.

Keep scouring the posts. Keep looking for people to punish for your pain. You are keeping needy people from the concepts that could save their marriages and soiling the good name of Dr. Harley, whose concepts have the ability to change the way the world looks at marriage. They certainly kept mine going this long. And with lots of prayer, those concepts will help it continue now. But you will run people off before they even get a chance to see if they might find help here.

To clarify:

I would not rather die than leave him or be alone. I would rather die than put him through that kind of pain. I want the pain to be on me, not him. I deserve it. Not him. And I, like most WS, don't need to be told that what I have done is deplorable. If I didn't already know that, I wouldn't be here trying to find a solution to save my marriage.

I have been around the MB ideas for 8 years. Not the forums. Many things on this website have changed (like the existence of a NC letter, for example) in those 8 years. I have been able to use some concepts but not all of them. It's difficult to have enthusiastic agreement by yourself.

I want you to consider the idea that MB is primarily built on the Christian faith. People coming here for help are usually doing the equivalent of repenting, and you are spitting on them. Very Christ-like, I must say.

I will be writing a letter to Dr. Harley, the moderators and those in charge of this forum. They need to know how some very wounded people here are undermining the purposes behind Marriage Builders with their misplaced anger and hurtful rhetoric.

Please consider what you are saying to folks before you push someone to take their own life.

And the action you have taken is....? I'm not punishing you, I'm asking you to think.


That is not true. Yes, people are hurt here and emotions run high but they don't want to punish you. Yes, some people (a very small minority) have said things that weren't helpful. You will probably find those same people are just as harsh on BS's. The majority have told you what steps you should take next. We are marriage builders, we don't want to see you fail. So.....we have given you the benefit of our experience. Why would you need sympathy for actions you have brought on yourself. I'll gladly help you find your way out of this but I'm not going to pat you on the back and say "there, there."


It's perception. What you see as cruelty is actually a wake up call. Don't blame shift. It's what all WS's do. By that I mean you are blaming "us" for making you suicidal. You see suicide as a way of removing yourself from a nasty situation which you don't want to face or deal with. It's not a solution. Do you really think you wouldn't hurt more people and for much, much longer, maybe forever.


Again, what help are you looking for? I found the greatest help was people pointing out my ridiculous thinking and pointing me to a better understanding of myself. All using the MB concepts.



How would the pain be on you? You would be out of it, leaving everyone else to wonder why, then to find out and never be able to ask questions or work any of it out. In other words, leaving your H in an eternal h*ll on earth. He would think to the end of his days that "if only she'd come to me with this - we could have got through it."



No one has spat on you. People have spoken harshly to you out of their frustration at your not listening and only hearing what you want to hear. People have said to me that I think everything is "all about me". I recognise the same thing in you.


This is emotional blackmail and manipulation. It is what children use. "I'll run away from home, then they'll be sorry."

Awesome post, Jen.

Emmy, I'm sorry you didn't hear what you wanted to hear but you are not going to find any support on this forum for lying to your spouse and keeping him in a marriage based on fraud and deceit. There is nothing "Christian" about cheating on your husband and then lying to him about it. There is nothing Christian about enabling you to abuse the man in this cruel manner. The man is not your pet and has every right to know the truth about his own life. To do otherwise is to treat him like a PET. Hardly a "Christian" act of decency.

The response you received here has nothing to do with someone's "pain" but with simple common decency. One does not have to have experienced adultery to know right from wrong. What you propose is indecent and cruel. It is manipulative and dangerous to continue to lie to your husband about your affair and no one here would advocate such treachery. You excuse your deceit by saying you don't want to hurt him. Well, you already have hurt him. And continue to do so every day that you deceive him. You are the least qualified person here to decide what is in his best interest.

You can throw yourself on the floor and pitch fits all day long, it won't make people advocate your dishonesty. Dr Harley would never advocate dishonesty and fraud.

Honesty is the solution to adultery, Emmy, not more deceit, not more fraud. If someone tells you otherwise, they are no friend, but ENABLERS. My sympathy is reserved for your victims, not for those who harmed them.

Speaking of Dr. Harley, here is what he says about telling the truth to your victim:

entire article here

You are under the mistaken impression that because I was reluctant to reveal the A to him that I was not planning to. I did not once ask anyone to condone treachery. I simply asked if it was necessary. Overwhelmingly it was deemed so. I could have picked that up much easier if I had not had to sort through all the insults.

A simple link to the information would have sufficed.

Emmy, I saw two people insulting you. All the rest of the posts were helpful.

FWIW one of the posters who was most angry calls me "a selfish excuse for a person" (or words to that effect) on most of my posts.

I bit back at first then realised it probably wasn't even about me.

If you think I'm speaking as a smug FWW you couldn't be more wrong.

I understand the turmoil and confusion and pain you are in. But that is not the focus. The focus should be (and will be if I have my way) on working your way out of this mess.

I didn't confess to my H. He found out by finding relationship books I had hidden in my dresser drawer. I was on the verge of confessing but didn't have the guts. I preferred to drink away all the feelings of guilt.

The relief when it was all out was overwhelming. It was tough, I didn't know which way we were going to go. I was foggy, I was withdrawing from the OM (after the A had been over 6 months), I was a drunken mess.

But we worked on it. We even worked through D-day 2, which was two years later and public, right here on MB. I was like you, attack is the best form of defense. Then I started listening.

And here we are. Happy, recovered and looking forward to our DD's wedding.

You're welcome.

Jen,

Thank you. This is a post I can respond to.

I know exactly what you're saying. I agree wholeheartedly!

Regarding the other posters, again, you are right. It more than likely isn't about me. In fact, very little of this whole situation is about me, but about those this will affect. But every emotional resource I have right now is going toward working this solution and what it will take to do what I know I have to do. I don't have anything left to handle what is being thrown at me in addition on this board. You see? I'm not even saying they're wrong! Just that it's not helpful.

I need the links to the resources. I need stories of those who have done it. No matter how it turned out. I need people to resist the urge to post if they have nothing helpful. I didn't come here for flagellation. I can do that all by myself.

Also? These are not the people I will want to turn to when I take the steps and need to talk.

I don't want the focus to be my pain either. I want the focus to be on the steps. Not the solution, just one step at a time.

Thank you.

Emmy,

No one person is going to give you a complete perspective, do bear in mind so that you can to filter the acidic parts out, and take away what you find useful.

Unfortunately, the choices left to you all have drawbacks, perhaps you need to lay them out on paper to help you decide, or even create a timeline for decision.

I do think you need to reveal, since both he and his wife know and their lifestyle is not secretive, if they are drinkers it is even more of a risk.

Right now you are stuck between an emotionally unavailable husband and a horrible truth, I really feel for You and your Husband.

God Bless
newjersey

Emmy, that is very encouraging.

I think your H will surprise you. I think you will find that the depth of the love he has for you is more than you imagined.

My H is a man of few words. He thought I just "knew" how much he loved me. He was the adult in our relationship. He didn't need constant approval and admiration and attention like I did. He wasn't a workaholic but, at the time of my A, he had withdrawn completely from me and everyone else. He was grieving the deaths, all in the same year, of his parents and my father.

I couldn't handle being the adult. Now I know what I need to do when he gets into a funk. I have to reach out to him and empathise with him and put myself on the back burner. Through MC he also learned that withdrawing from those around him when he got depressed wasn't the answer. We learned to communicate.

Emmy35,

If you have an issue with replies to your threads, you can either ignore the poster using the "Ignore" feature.

Or if you feel the post is violating MB TOS please press the "Notify" button, which will notify the moderators.

I hope this helps.

Emmy, hopefully you came here for truth, because that is exactly what you are going to get. But you are going to have to buck up a bit and resist the urge to throw a fit when you hear something you don't like if you are going to make it. The fits and the dramatics are not "helpful" and will not scare people into shutting up. About 99% of the posts on your thread are very "helpful" and very well thought out if you would only listen.

We do know what is "helpful;" most of us are in recovering marriages, after all, and have been doing this for years. You are not in a recovering marriage but we would like to help you get there. You asked people for help and opinions and that is what you are getting. No one is going to gloss things over for you, so please cut with the dramatics.

Emmy, you stated that you wanted LINKS to Harley material. Here is an excellent video where Dr Harley speaks about adultery its effect on the victims. You might this helpful: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Also, in regards to me being hesitant to disclose the A-

I have been in counseling with my Pastor since the A ended and his recommendation was not to tell my H about it. That was why I was asking so rigorously whether or not it was necessary.

So what is the plan to tell your husband? When will you be telling him?

I don't know yet.

People on the "outside" rarely recommend telling. They don't get that recovery can only happen with complete honesty. They think it's "hurting" the other person. It's not. It's giving them vital information about their lives.

Emmy, it's not going to be a picnic. It's going to be very, very hard. You are going to be faced with another person's very deep grief. But, honestly, it's the only way.