medc,

My husband considered me to be "controlling" because I objected to his relationship with this woman. It all depends on the definition of "unreasonable." He considered it reasonable for her to take him out to a very expensive restaurant (considered most romantic in the Twin Cities) to celebrate the birth of our child.

I didn't believe in the POJA back then. I believed that I should accept graciously whatever I could tolerate, and it turned out I could tolerate a lot. Months after the celebratory lunch, she propositioned him, and it was six weeks later when he was still having lunch alone with her that I reached the limit of what I could tolerate.

By then it was too late.

Cherished

I truly am a no nonsense person. I don't put up with much. I KNOW the signs. When he was in his budding EA,he talked about her like he really admired her. When we argued about her,he said,"Well,you don't work full time, SHE does". I told him I was LOOKING at one of my jobs and it's clear I failed. I told him I gave him a beautiful son,took care of him,kept a beautiful home and worked part-time to help him out. That's nothing to turn your nose up at.
She's also been married 3 times,I pointed out,all to men from the different corporations she worked for,ALL married men who left their wives for her. I said,"Guess who she has in her sights NOW??????????????".
After I nipped this in the bud,she did a cruel thing. For Christmas,she sent HIM a Christmas card signed with her name AND the new man she was married to.....one of my H's co-workers. He turned pale as a sheet. I said,"What,you thought she only had eyes for YOU"? And this guy must be riddled with guilt. He left his wife for her and then his devastated ex-wife was killed in an auto accident.
I told him I hoped this was a wake up call for him and he said it was. She has now broken up THREE marriages....and I don't think she's done yet.
And I told him again.....if this other woman runs up to him again and kisses his hand again....there is going to be a cat fight. If he allows it,I'll go after him too....in divorce court.

medc has a point. It is up to him to decide how to behave. You can tell him your feelings and your viewpoint, but you cannot control his behavior.

If he knows you'll get in a cat fight, he won't say anything, and the relationship will go underground. Better to separate.

To be honest, I'm on the fence whether it was a good idea to stay in the relationship if he is willing to follow the POJA but doesn't believe in it. The only thing I am certain of is that I won't stay in the relationship if he doesn't follow the POJA.

Consider separation.

Cherished

My H KNOWS I won't hesitate to walk. The ball is in his court. He's been very attentive. I've seen nothing to really worry about since all this. And BELIEVE ME,I LOOK. I notice everything and he knows it. One of the things that I know he considers is not just me.....but our 29 year old son. He ADORES his son. He always has. And he adores his Dad. Our son was there when this happened (the woman kissing his hand)and I could tell he was upset about it. He loves his Dad but he loves me too.
He said he talked to his Dad about it but I didn't ask what was said and he didn't offer. But the dirty look he gave his Dad was noticed by me....and my H. Our son was married once before and has been remarried 3 years. His first wife cheated on him and he divorced her so fast,I don't think she saw it coming. He was devastated but was unwilling to R even though she wanted to.
So this was NOT appreciated by our son. He knows how it feels. I'm different then my son though. I would have no desire to remarry.

Here is where the POJA comes in. It doesn't matter if it was innocent or not. If it bothers you, then he doesn't do it.

I've been married 15 years and cannot imagine surviving in a marriage long enough to have a 29 year old son and feeling like I have to threaten a cat fight.

You've given me some things to think about. When it comes to issues completely without moral overtones, like medc's desire to play basketball, does he do what he feels like doing, or does he willingly give up what doesn't work for you?

Cherished

This is actually rather worrisome. He is not willing to take your feelings into true consideration, and yet he is "attentive"?

Be extremely cautious of gaslighting.

Having been married as long as we have,I have seen so many friends go through cheating and divorce. My best friends H walked out on her after 27 years of marriage,saying she had always been a SAHM and contributed nothing to the marriage. Yea,right,3 beautiful kids and making a home out of any dump he put her in. Another friends H left her for the OW a week after she had his son and 2 weeks after her Mother died. Then,he called wanting us to meet his new wife and was furious when we said NO.
Because of these instances,and others,I'm pretty much always on alert.
My H has said that,although he got mad at my actions over the budding EA, it meant a lot to him that I cared. He actually thought I didn't. But he knows it does haunt me.
I have seen no evidence of him being in contact with any woman. Could he be gaslighting me? Yes But heaven help him if I find out. And he knows that.

You have alluded to this a couple of times.
Why did he think you didn't care?

If he feels unloved in his marriage, he's going to be more likely to cross boundaries in his friendships with women. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, I'm saying this is something that should be examined.

We are in MC and have a great counselor. I feel blessed to have this counselor because my H really likes him. He truly is wonderful. He has even called my H on rolling his eyes over my concerns. He told him it negates my feelings when he does so and my feelings are important.

Has your MC talked to your H about his boundaries?

Our MC thought I didn't have to worry about my H's poor boundaries. He told me something along the lines of..."don't worry, your H doesn't ever want to be in this position again".

I've read here time and again that most MCs don't know too much about saving a M...

We called the Harleys and they spoke to my H at length about Extraordinary Precautions. EPs is something your H might benefit from given that he had a budding EA and a cozy coworker cuddled him in front of you...

I plan on addressing the boundaries at the next session. The fact that my H saw this as "innocent" is NOT acceptable. He did tell our counselor that I over react and the counselor told him that,ever since the budding EA,I was and am forever going to be on my guard. He DOES try to get him to see that the budding EA changed our marriage forever. I do believe I caught it before it went too far.