Any advice on these 2 items from one of my posts above?

1) What do you guys think about me putting some of these thoughts into a letter?

2) WW has really sold her unhappiness in the M and her lack of love for me well with people close to her. Although I've exposed, it has not really helped me much. Her family very much wishes to stay out of it, and does not wish to confront her or make anything confrontational. She has a close friend who I know she has confided in, and I have an ok relationship with this friend as well. I know that WW would be upset if I tried to talk to this person re. what's going on, but I don't think I have much else to loose. I can't help feeling like I don't have many people on board with my thoughts/version of what is taking place that are within her direct circle of influence. Thoughts on approaching this person to talk?

Scope,

I'm too busy these days to post alot, but I'm a veteran here that's seen quite a few WW's in my days. I'm going to be as honest and blunt with you as possible.

Your WW shows NO remorse for her actions, ZERO regard as to what divorcing will do to the children, and ONLY concern for her reputation. She is about as bad of a WW as they come. Your situation looks very grim to me. I'm not saying that there isn't hope, but I would do everything possible to protect your finances and your custody of your children because your selfish WW will take everything from you. I'm not telling you to give up, but I would strongly suggest you to prioritize things in this manner:

1) Protect your finances and custody of your children.
2) Try to save your marriage.

Right now, your marriage probably has about a 10% chance of being saved, but you have probably a 50/50 shot of getting primary custody and a favorable divorce settlement. The way to pursue both goals is plan A your WW, but don't talk about the divorce, and get a bulldog attorney (don't go cheap and do your research, check attorneys that are big into father's rights) who will take care of pushing for primary custody and a good financial settlement. She will be furious and want to talk to you about it, but you just tell her your attorney is handling it, and refuse to discuss it. Only engage her in smalltalk, nothing serious. When one of you has to leave the house, give her a plan B letter informing her of your desire to stay married, but only under your conditions (NC w/ OM, MC, etc.). You can always get remarried if you reconcile after divorce.

Right now your WW is trying to protect her relationship w/ OM at all costs. Because you work together, she is trying to quickly secure a separation so she can "legitimately" start w/ OM again without repercussions. Your M will never improve as long as she is in contact w/ OM. You need to push to get one or both of them gone from the job, even if it means less money for your household. Besides, the less money she has, the less money she has to fund her divorce. Her job loss won't affect you that much if you are divorced and it would only hurt her in custody. Talk with your attorney to see if there is anything you can do to the company. Also, what state do you live in, because some states have alienation of affection lawsuits.

Right now she wants nothing to do with you. The strategy now for saving your marriage is making the consequences of getting divorced so bad that staying and trying to work on it is a better option. Your WW is so far gone that no other strategy will work, and this will allow you to protect yourself if things don't work out.

If you WANT the divorce to go smoothly and quickly then Collaborative law is the way to go. They will help you FACILITATE a quick resolution and settlement, supposedly with attorneys representing both parties. The thing is you have to AGREE not to take it to court once you start this process.

Here's an excerpt from a website about Collaborative Law in Canada:


To me it sounds like the "Fast Track" to divorce. If this is what you want, then go for it. If not, proceed to litigation. Litigation WILL be more expensive and lengthy but I'm wondering if you can go back to Collaborative Law if you decide you just want to get it over with during the course of the litigation. That's a question for your attorney.

Here's the link: Collaborative Family Law in Canada

Just a question for you, maybe I missed the answer somewhere: Why do you think that if you engage in the Collaberative process that she will give you better custody of your children than if you go the court route?

Is it something that she assured you, or implied to you? Keeping in mind that waywards lie and that she has engaged an attorney, I am just wondering why you think you would get better custody by going the collaberative route or why you get more resources in general by going that route?

Thanks for the replies, and the brute honesty about how far gone my WW is. I just can't believe all this happened this quickly.



I am in Canada, and from the very little that I know re. Canadian divorce/separation law, the reasons (adultry) are not really taken into consideration at all when the courts are deciding custody and division of assets. The courts also tend to favour women.


Right now she is wants a 50/50 joint custody thing. Her tune could change if I made this messier through the courts. If we fought in court for full custody, I don't see how I would win according to Canadian laws (which don't care about reasons, and favour women).


She's assured me when she tries to discuss it with me. I have not been open to the conversations, but she puts it out there anyhow. She's gone as far as to say things like "if we do this easily, I won't look for any type of support" or "I won't look to take investments/RRSPs". It's these comments that have me feeling like in a court setting, her and her lawyer would not be open to these things. They would be pushing for all she can get, only in spite of how difficult I've made the separation legally.

Okay,
So she is Telling you these things right now, but there have been no statements or offers put into writing. This just does not sound right to me. I just find it hard to believe that once she has an agreement from you to enter into negotiations, why would she not try to get the best financial arrangement for herself that she could possibly get? If she wants full custody, why would she not ask for full custody?

I just do not think that you should listen to what she is telling you regarding going into collaboration with her. She has an attorney now, and he is being a bull dog for her by writing you that threatening letter with the time frame attached to it. It seems to me that she is looking out for herself pretty well

Why do you think you would be the one to make out better if you went the collaboration route?

I remember that you said that in an earlier response here on your thread.

I don't know what a letter would do for the situation. She may tune it out...maybe short, one line notes hidden for her to find as she goes through her day. They could briefly describe to her how you feel and maybe be phrased so that they could bring a smile to her face. Maybe some about old times that you shared.

I think in each of your instances regarding her and regarding mutual friends/family, your actions will help. Plan activities with the children and with friends/family. Regarding friends/family, think about things that interest individuals in each category and do small niceties. Example, Brother-in-law: I know how much you like golfing...thought you would enjoy reading this article (or joke, or this picture)

Just get a good attorney and tell him that you want the best custody arrangement and best settlement possible. Let him handle it. Also, start documenting how you are the primary caretaker for the children. Waywards tend to neglect the children. Things like taking your children to the birthday party and your WW sneaking of with OM need to be documented and given to your lawyer. Make sure you get a bulldog of an attorney that will fight for primary custody if it is at all possible. Usually lawyers know the best divorce lawyers, so if you know a good tax lawyer, criminal lawyer, etc., they might know who is the best. It is worth the investment for a good lawyer. Your WW is only worrying about you quietly going along with screwing you over.

Scope,

That last sentence is EXACTLY HOW SHE WANTS YOU TO FEEL....and you are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

She WANTS you to feel this way. She is telling everybody this too, because it makes her look not like the bad guy.

She WANTS to be able to say, "Hey, I was going to be nice to him, but HE is making things difficult."

My WS was "going" to give me EVERYTHING except for his 2 vehicles and his clothes. I could have it all. He said he would go along with whatever custody I wanted. He said "he would take care of me" and told everyone else the same thing. Heck, he called me crying telling me all of this and how sorry he was and he would take care of me, blah, blah, blah...WHILE he was away boinking HER....

It was to alliviate HIS guilt. It was to make me do things the "EASY" way.

And whenever I would not react like a trained dog, he would get mean..."I was going to be nice, but not now"..."Remember I will be paying support for the kids, not for you"...blah, blah blah....

It is all STANDARD SCRIPT....

Now, I am not saying not to protect yourself. Get your lawyer and let him handle it all. Take that worry off your shoulders......and above all else...STOP LISTENING TO HER....

not2fun

Hi - thought I would check in with this thread to update on my situation, and seek further advice.

For the last few weeks I've just been trying to Plan A on my own. It has not really done much good. Although both WS and OM both told me sometime ago that they would put aside A until separation went through, I've caught her with him a couple more times. This weekend being the most recent.

She continues to fill out the necessary papers for legal separation to proceed, but it is not moving that quickly which is good I guess. I think she has a hard time with finding all the financial numbers she needs.

OM and WS are in a full on A, with no intentions of ending it. WS has told me that she does not consider herself "married" to me anylonger, and has no issues with being with OM. I believe OM is also interfering or assisting her with the separation.

About a week after I caught her in the A, after most of the exposure took place, I found OM parents phone number and name and put in my wallet with intention of calling the next day. When I did, OM's father hung up on me as soon as I introduced myself. Found out from WS's best friend that WS snooped through my wallet, found it and warned OM who in turn must have warned his parents I would call. I sent them a letter in the mail.

Also, WS was angry at me yesterday because OM told her I contacted his ex-girlfriend and told her about what was happening. Truth is, I did not contact her. I wanted to, but had no idea what her name was or how to contact her. Do you think OM is lying to WS about this? Or possibly OM's ex called him and is lying that I called her, maybe she heard from someone else that this is going on?

Making things worse, WS wrecked our 2nd vehicle this weekend - leaving us with only 1 car. This is difficult because we now have to do everything together in the car (ride to work etc...). Not sure what to do about the vehicle, we got into a huge argument this am about it. On the one hand, it's great that she does not have a vehicle to go and see OM with (he has no vehicle nor license). But on the other hand, it really limits my ability to do anything. WS wants to lease her own vehicle once we separate and sell the house, but she cannot afford that right now. Her only other option is to have the 2nd vehicle fixed. Would cost about $1200 likely, but we could probably only sell it for that (POS older car). I asked her where she would get the money to fix it, and she said it would be on credit which we would have to split up debts when the separation goes through anyhow. That really irks me.... she wrecks my car and I have to pay for it to be fixed. I really torn about what to do with this one.

During our argument this am about the car on our way to work, she was screaming and yelling at me in the car (she was driving). I asked her to pull over so I could get out because I did not want to argue like this. She started to slow down, and I undid seatbelt and opened up door getting ready to get out. Suddenly, she sped up and then put her had on my back as if to push me out!! I turned quickly and pushed her hand off of me. Then she pulled over and got out of the car and started running. I couldn't leave the car in the middle of the road, so I got in and looped around to where she was. Opened window and told her I was sorry this argument was happening, and asked her to get in so I could drive her to work. Told her we did not even have to speak. Nothing, she just told me to f off and it was over and she mumbled something about calling the police?

I'm in a really rough spot here. I feel great when I come to this site, but not so great when I think about things on my own. She is so far gone, I don't think I can get her back. When one comes to this realization, what's the strategy?

Hi Scope,

I'm in Canada as well and have learned a lot about the separation process if you have any questions.

Regarding your current situation, be very, very careful. There is a zero tolerance policy here now with domestic violence. Basically, if a woman calls the police and says her husband as much as pushed her, they come right away and haul his butt to jail for the night. Only afterwards do they investigate to see if a crime actually occurred. While the intent of this is to protect truly abused women, there are people who have taken advantage of it - and lawyers who know the system and advise their female clients to use it. I personally know of 2 horror stories where the wife called the cops, slapped a restraining order ended up getting the poor H charged and having to see a parole officer AND having no way to contact the kids (because of the RO). In both cases it worked out in the end (in H's favour) but there were other extenuating circumstances as well. I just want to warn you to take her threats seriously - she may not know herself yet what could happen.

Regarding separation, if you can get her to agree to favourable terms, do it as soon as possible. My WstbxH decided 2 days after he signed the LSA that it wasn't fair but it was too late. If you look at my timeline, it was not even a full month from d-day to that point. WS's don't think straight so they are willing to sign off more than they are entitled to. You really need this especially when it comes to custody issues which, as you've stated, the courts will favour her regardless of who what where why or how she wants a divorce. I have a friend who got 50/50 custody and a way better CS deal than any court in the land would ever give him by getting that separation agreement drawn up right away.

I wish you luck.

Thank you Tabby1. This is very different advice to what I've heard on this forum (and even in this post) previously. I've felt all along that I would have a much better settlement going with a quick LSA. I've been dragging my feet on everything, and it's starting to anger her to the point of not getting a favourable settlement for me...

You can follow MB and write your SA at the same time. My Wstbx actually thought I was being "nice" when I started working on it. He did have a few explosive rages over some of the details but I just calmly told him this was HIS choice and that would settle him down. This would be where you can tell your WW you are willing to stop this nonsense if she wants to work on the M.