Believer the property market is bad right now ...so I think it should be better in 3 years but I do see your point.The world cup soccer is coming here in 2 years and that should push up property values too.WH is determined to do this venture,he will cede a life policy to me worth around $1 million for the 3 years in case it fails.

A friend of mine knows someone who is involved in the same franchise elsewhere and he said WH will need $400000.00 to start...WH has put down $100000.00 already so he will have $200000.00 to play with..

I hate the fact that WH will be able to do this venture either way...I am going to ask for WH to buy me a new car through the business and I will give my car to DS18 as part of the settlement...can only try.

Also IF we get back together WH will still have this venture and I will be part of the risk.To sell our house now would be a disaster cos of low property values..homes are being repossessed here...and I will be in a worse position financially.If I knew that me not signing now would prevent him getting loan I would definitely take the harder road in this as it could maybe save my marriage but either way WH gets his money!!1

When is reality going to hit him or has it already and his out of the fog...I am at a loss for words right now ..I just can't win....

The strange thing is that I've been getting positive affirmations from my bible readings and daily devotionals...so I will still keep my trust in God and move on..
Today I bought the book "wild at heart" and "captivating"..its 2 in 1..by J.Elridge.I saw the author on TBN yesterday and a friend told me about this book a few months ago..I also remember Queenie mentioning it in her posts....so I thought maybe I was meant to buy it!!

I'll pass it on to WH when I'm finished!!!

Your husband isn't making a good decision. It is absolutely CRAZY for him to start a business with his affair partner, because the affair won't last. And then SHE will own part of the business that he risked his house on.

The common thought is that you need to have savings that you can LOSE to cover all of the costs until the business is successful. This should be money that you can risk and consider gone.

I don't know the laws in your country, so if your husband can get the loan WITHOUT your permission or force the sale of the family home for his affair business, I guess you have no choice.

If you feel you have to sign for the loan, I would ask for 5 years before the home is sold. That will give you some room to get your sons started on a life of their own, and time for you to make a good life.

Believer,WH isn't going to share the ownership of the business with OP.She will most probably end up working wih him and earning a salary but she won't have shares in the business.Someone toLd me that if she lives with WH for 2 years or more she has rights as a common-law wife and if they split she can get a portion of the business.....shall I mention this to WH.?

I will take this up with my lawyer to make sure this is true.I will try to extend the time period to 5 years...good point....

Last night DS15 was with 2 friends at the mall,went to watch movies.His one friend ,steven comes from a good home and is well-behaved,the other I have never trusted,james.Stevens mom phoned me this morning to tell me that after WH had fetched DS15 from the mall(his with his dad this weekend)her son and james were searched by cops at the mall cos they were behaving suspiciously.2 girls with them were drunk!!they are 15-16 years old.The cops found cannibis on james and he spent the night in a jail cell.The cops took steven home and explained to his parents what had happened.
I now have to phone WH and explain all this as DS15 is will him .I do drug testing in my lab so I am definitely going to test him when he comes home.Cannibis stays in the system for 3 weeks..I now have a valid reason to prevent DS15 from hanging around with this kid.DS15 is in such a vunerable place right now..The mom is going to contact the school headmaster and inform him of this occurance too.I told DS18 to make sure DS15 doesn't hang around with this kid at school too.
How do I tell WH DS15 is emotionally stressed and HE has a large part to play in this?

Be sure to ask your attorney about the living together thing.

And I would insist on 5 years, and maybe a car too. Be certain that your family is protected if the business fails. Can you ask to be put as an owner on the business, since it is being funded from the family home? Or how about your sons? However it is done, I would be sure to cut the OW out of any rights to ownership.

As for the marijuana, my sons both went through that, and they did it because their friends did. I'm not a cool mom, and I used to search their rooms. One time I found it in their room and flushed it down the toilet. I also checked their eyes, you can always tell. Anyway, they are grown and neither one uses any kind of drugs or alcohol.

I think I would be more worried about hanging around with drunk girls. That is a disaster about to happen.

I'm going to push the car issue...I just checked on the internet and here in S.A there are no common-law wife laws in place so OW will get nothing..thank goodness..
I spoke to DS15 on the phone earlier and I was calm with him..I told him I am going to test him so we're all on the same page with this..He said his fine with that...we shall see!
I spoke to WH as well..
I explained the issue to him and told him that DS15 is very insecure at moment and I calmly told him about the incident where DS15 had his melt-down worrying about WH and his job loss.WH didn't pass any comments...I assume OP was there.I hope WH understands what his doing to his kids.I told him DS15 might come across fine but when he comes home his withdrawn for a day or two and that he misses his dad.I was not condesending when I said this,tried not to LB...why I bother I don't know!!I just want to scream at him!!!!!

I'm leaving work now and internet is on the blink at home again,but please keep posting to me!!...will check in tomorrow thanks

But could your husband put her name on the business? Don't trust him to do the right thing by his family. It may just be my experience making me paranoid though. OW in my case swore she wasn't interested at all in money, her husband said that too, and so did mine. In the end, she helped blow all of our savings, my ex's retirement, his pay for 3 years, and when the money was gone, so was she.

I'm really leery of him starting a business because he is not thinking straight. He may add OW's name to the business, overpay her, or the business may fail because of lack of capital to last through the first few years. Then your money borrowed against the family home is GONE.

But you are in a strong position to negotiate for the best deal for your family.

I'd rather he didn't get the loan because that will just enable the affair to continue. But if you cannot avoid him getting the money, I guess you have no choice.

As far as your son, if his friend was smoking pot, and had it on him, your son probably was too. We'll see.

Hope you have talked to him about birth control and safe sex. He is stressed right now, and I would hate for him to hook up with some drunk girl and get her pregnant.

"The strange thing is that I've been getting positive affirmations from my bible readings and daily devotionals...so I will still keep my trust in God and move on..
Today I bought the book "wild at heart" and "captivating"..its 2 in 1..by J.Elridge.I saw the author on TBN yesterday and a friend told me about this book a few months ago..I also remember Queenie mentioning it in her posts....so I thought maybe I was meant to buy it!!

I'll pass it on to WH when I'm finished!!!"

I have those books too - Loved them!
One of my daughters left the "Wild at Heart" book at her WF's place years ago. Apparently he read at least part of it because he commented on it once - made fun of people who still believed in fairy tales. The author does a pretty good job of pointing out that adultery is an illegitimate sinful way that Satan has exploited the natural male and female desires to play knight in shining armor who rescues the damsel in distress. I guess WXH didn't get it part...

My youngest daughter is visiting her WF right now and I want her to bring the book back. It's been at his place for years and he obviously isn't getting any good out of it. I'm tempted to e-mail WXH to make sure she brings it home with her - would love to say something like: "the One I plan on sharing the rest of my life with, the One I know really loves me and will never leave me, wants to read the book with me" LOL but I am sticking to Plan B and not having any communication with WXH.

I loved that book too.

There is a person that posts on the emotional needs forum, Retread, who is a consultant for businesses. I hope you will post over there and give a rundown of the business hubby wants to start.

Anyway, here is what Retread posted to another man here who wants to start his own business.

"I am a consultant who has worked on a lot of businesses that were on the way up, and on the way down. I have walked into some that were one more big product delay from going under, and turned them around, and I have have seen companies go from nothing to stock values of billions and back to a small business. Sometimes it was technology and markets leaving them behind, sometimes the founders, sometimes the management brought in for a transition who screwed up. IOW, I have seen it all, and fighting to save one is like being a marriage counselor to a shipwrecked marriage 24/7.

Since I don't know your business, I cannot give any specific advice, but I do have some conservative rules of thumb that won't make a lot of entrepreneurs and managers happy, but will keep them out of trouble.

Lots of businesses have negative cash flow in the early stages.
That means you have to have enough cash to cover that, and more, and it has to be cash, not loans or equity in your house, but cash, that you can afford to lose, because you are gambling, taking a risk. And you need money set aside or coming in from somewhere else to pay the personal bills, or you will not be able to focus on your business. That's a tough requirement, but if you try to shortcut it, you are exposing yourself too much. Just try to figure how to scale the startup to fit that cash requirement.

Most startups (and transitions) spend way too much money, buy things they don't need, pay cash for the wrong things, finance the wrong things. Why? Tunnel vision. They get so focused on the sale, or production, or job in front of them that they plow right ahead without looking down the road. You have to be an optimist and self-confident to take these risks, but you have to be held back. That's why prize fighters have managers. That's why NFL quarterbacks have coaches talking to them on the sidelines - to keep them in check.

Small businesses need coaches, too. They need trusted advisors who don't have a personal stake in the business. That's why people hire me, but they need more than specialists. They need some older guys who have been around the block to give some different perspectives. If you want your business to become successful, organize it like a big business from the start. Set up a board of directors or advisors. Start with one person you can trust and work out from there to brains with perspectives you need. Successful entrepreneurs and executives have confidants in other industries, with whom they can discuss problems and opportunities.

Sit down and draw up a business plan. Have them critique it. There are plenty of naysayers, but you don't need them. You need people who will ask, "What if?" and "What about..?", until you have anticipated every scenario, down to the worst case.

Put the pro forma plan in a spreadsheet and work it. If the profits and cash flow are lower, adjust the plan. Try to think of new business models that require less investment, less risk, fewer spells of negative cash flows, etc. I had a client who started with one truck, but had a positive cash flow business model. He always got his money before he had to pay anyone else, and he paid everyone as soon as he got paid. By the time he was 55, he was doing $66,000,000, no debt, and clearing $15,000,000 before taxes. There was no way, after he passed $500,000 gross, that anyone or anything could stop him. That's where you want to be, not begging bankers for expansion money or renewing a note."

Well, I asked him myself. We will see what he says. Please check over in the emotional needs forum. I hope it is okay to ask him - he seems to give excellent advice.

Whatever you do, I hope you make the best deal for your fmaily. Your WH is desperate and that is good for you. Ask for 5 years and a car, and whatever else you can think of. All he can do is say no.

Bumping for retread.........

Well my sons dope test was positive...he said he hadn't smoked that evening when he was with his friend but a while ago...he was very embaressed and I don't think he expected the test to come back positive...I have punished him and will do sporadic tests in the future.He is not allowed to associate with this kid at school either..DS18 will keep an eye on him..
WH said he would stick by my punishment for him...I wonder if WH sees this as a ripple effect of his affair!!!..suppose not...

WH said he was reading a book at the moment and he wasn't interested in 'wild at heart'..pity.
He really doesn't look happy...

I went to my lawyer today,this is what I have asked for;

1.a new car within the next year or else I take a large portion of his pension.
2.We will stay in the house for 3 years and WH will pay bond,rates,my life policy and $300 child support plus 50%school fees and 100% tertiary education if they study further.
3.I will not be liable for the interest accrued on this loan.
4.WH will cover medical costs of boys.
WH has ceded a life policy for $12000.00 to me for the duration of the 3 years in case he dies or business goes under.

My lawyer said WH had taken a personal loan to get the deposit of $10 000.00 for venture.He is putting everything into this...at least I am protected with his life policy...
The boys will be happy cos we'll stay in the house.

I have never discussed WH with my lawyer but she said he was "as meak as a lamb" when we had the round-table meeting (I was in another room).I found her comment interesting...when I saw him yesterday he looked very tired and drained...couldn't look me in the face either...

I haven't heard from my lawyer which means WH hasn't finalised anything with his lawyer..maybe on monday I'll hear from her.

DS15 has been well-behaved!!He passed a comment about maybe going back to spending one week with WH and one with me...this just tells me his feeling insecure.He doesn't talk about WH loan or his business which is a good sign.He did say if WH started his business OP would keep her existing job untill the business was off the ground...

I have a confession to make...last monday I gave WH a letter explaining my feelings during DS18's recovery from his accident(he has permanent damage to his feet and ankles and will never run again and will live with constant pain in his feet)...I was very angry at WH for buying the motorbike and he knew it...I never outwardly blamed him but I think he knew which added to his feelings of guilt(I firmly believe the accident was largely responsible for the affair)...in the letter I apologised for where I was at fault during that time and asked for his forgiveness..I said that the letter wasn't a ploy to get him to come home just to let things from the past go...
When I spoke to him on the phone the next day about DS15 and the dope test,I asked him if he had read the letter and if he had an answer for me and he was confused as to what I meant...I said "don't worry you've most probably thrown the letter away"..He said he hadn't which I was surprised at.I still haven't had a response but it doesn't matter I feel better that I've come clean with him about a very sensitive issue between us.

DS15 commented that WH battles to fall asleep at night and he talks in his sleep!!..something he never did before..

I feel now that the loan will enable his affair I have really lost this fight for good..

We had a lovely weekend,me and the boys...I lost my cool with DS15 this evening though, ..he said he might go to WH on Wednesday to Sunday.I know I was wrong but I told him to make up his mind where he wants to live.....with me or WH.I'm just so tired of WH disrupting our lives...
Apparently WH has an abscess under his tooth which is causing him a lot of pain..from all the cr@p he talks!!!LOL

Today I felt very angry with WH,I thought about all that he has done to this family all the while living in his fantasyland...happy and in love..

When will the tides turn in my favour?
Tomorrow is a new week and I'm sure this divorce will be finalised too.Just having a vent!!

It must be maddening to have your son bouncing back and forth. But of course, he needs contact with his father at 15. It is probably good that he spend time with dad. Nothing like a a couple of teenagers in the mix to ruin fantasyland.

Hang in there. You have done your best, now just let go and see what happens.

Believer I am feeling bitter and angry towards WH these last few days..when I think of all the damage he has done.Part of me wishes I could tell him exactly how I feel about him,but I know I'd be talking to a WH...in one ear and out the other!

So many people tell me he can't be that happy with all that he has lost..but HE doesn't see that.

DS18 passed his learners driving test on Friday so now he is allowed to drive on the road with a person who has a drivers licence.He is so happy!..also very nervous cos of his motorbike accident..bad memories...I will be teaching him, something a dad should be doing....WH loss......

Still no news from my lawyer...no news is good news....
Believer thanks for your help with the advice from retread...very kind of you..

I get frustrated when I don't see anything happening...I know this is what plan B is about...can't help it.

I taught my sons, step-son, their girlfriends, step daughters, and babysitter how to drive - 14 in all, and the babysitter only spoke Spanish. It's very nervewracking. But do a good job, because that is something that will keep him safe the rest of his life.

Spent lots of time in the passenger seat, jamming by foot onto the pretend brake. Also went over defensive driving a lot, and even rented some movies about defensive driving. Then I taught them all how to drive a stick shift. I just had more of the temperment for it - cool and calm, and didn't yell at them like my ex did.

Whenever the affair ends, your husband will be remorseful. Mine never was, until it ended. Now he STILL IS. For months, he was writing me and coming by until schoolbus suggested a letter to send him. That ended it, and I haven't heard from him in several months.

Yours will get there too.

Gee Believer you're quite the teacher!!!Congratulations....
Most people here drive manual(stick shift as you say!)cars,mine is too.DS18 will have to go for some formal driving lessons with a driving school to touch up on a few things that they are strict about when he actually goes for his driving test..they are VERY strict here..one can only get your drivers licence here when you are 18...a good thing too!!!

DS15 is going to WH tomorrow till sunday..this must make WH very happy knowing DS15 wants to spend more time with him...less guilt for WH I think...
I have been feeling angry these last two days dunno where this has come from..I do know I'm tired of seeing no turn of events..guess I'm impatient ...
Still no news from lawyer,tomorrow will be a week...so much for WH urgency to get this franchise!!

Yesterday DS15 made WH's office/computer room into his bedroom.Its a much smaller room but DS15 was very happy with himself.Today when WH came to fetch him,he had 2 of OP's kids in the car,he had fetched them from school.WH asked DS15 if he could come inside to see his new bedroom.Of course DS15 asked me and I said no,DS15 was angry but understood.He just told WH no he couldn't.I felt bad and wasn't sure if I did he right thing.I know DS15 would have loved to show him the room.Was I been silly?

I felt awful knowing WH was in the car with 2 of her kids...one happy family.....if you know what I mean...Knowing he plays taxi everyday fetching her kids from 2 different schools,using his petrol and his time could also be annoying him...who knows...
When he was at home,WH would have to fetch our kids from school 1 afternoon a week when I worked a late shift...he often moaned about it...now his doing it everyday at 2 different schools for the last 3 months while OP is at work,who by the way, he takes to work and fetches!!

I took DS18 for a long driving lesson this afternoon,was fun.This is something he will always remember..mom taught me to drive...WH's loss.

Still no news from my lawyer.....