Hi everyone- this is my first posting to this board. I have been reading the boards and know that this is where i belong. I can see myself in so many of the posts. OK- here is my story-
Married for 31 years- 3 kids 19,19 and 11. 3 D days - July 11, 13 and 31 2007- so i just had my one year. My FWH confessed to 12 years of affairs last July. He had affairs with 12 different women of all durations and kinds. Two of the women were my good friends. He had multiple affairs going on at the same time.

This past year has been a roller coaster ride. I have felt pain so deep that i didn't even know i could feel that low. He broke my heart and devastated me. I totally adored the guy and was wearing rose colored glasses my whole life. i thought he was all that. Now i see him as he is/was - a broken person who so needed acceptance and love that he would do anything to get it. He was a true addict.

I have learned soooo much this past year. Just recently bought and am reading Surviving an Affair, but i want to buy the whole course and do it together.

I have become a new person. i have become the me i should have been my whole life. i was always looking for his approval and love. Now i dont need it. now i am not needy. Now i give myself the love and approval i need.
I would never do things for myself like make time to go out with my girlfriends but now i do. I no longer feel guilt when i take care of myself or spend money on me.
But - believe me- i still have so long to go.
Here's my problem and maybe some of you experts who have done this whole course can tell me if you moved past this-
I believe i have forgiven him and moved past my resentment. This was sooooooo hard for me. We have spent thousands on therapy and books and he would do anything i asked to stay in the marriage. He has been no contact and written all the no contact letters. He is super remorseful and sick over his behavior.
Anyway - i can not seem to let myself love him again. I am so afraid of being hurt again that i have built walls around my heart. I dont enjoy spending time with him anymore. Yet - i dont want to be without him. I feel so confused!
He doesnt communicate well, and i think ihave so much more fun and feel so much more understood by my girlfriends than when i am with him.
I have been reading about Love Bank Deposits and i think all of the suggestions may help....WILL THEY??????
Right now i feel disgusted touching him and the farthest we have progressed physically in a whole year is holding hands and holding each other in bed. He wants me - but i push him away gently. Sometimes i wince when i kiss him.
Will this program help me let myself feel safe and let myself feel vulnerable and let him back into my heart??????

Hello sunflower55. Welcome to the "club none of us volunteered to join."

A few comments for you to think about in response to your post:


Have you? What do you mean by you have "forgiven him?"

What "Resentment" have you "moved past?"

Recovery is perhaps not as simple as you might think nor as quick as you would like, but it seems the two of you are willing to try, so take encouragement from that, and from the fact that others HAVE made it through recovery to recovered.



Obviously, a good start. Why did your husband "confess" and drop this bomb on you a year ago?



Then might it be possible that you have NOT really "moved past resentment?"

Those "walls" are normal, and it IS those "walls" that need to be taken down, and why recovery takes so long.

On average, recovery takes as long as it took for the WS to "get into and out of" their affair(s). My own was 6 years. Are you really committed to the "long haul?"



Understandable. This was no small bomb, this was a "dirty bomb" with long lasting effects that take a long time to recover from.



I know, you think men should communicate as women do. But it rarely works that way. But substituting the "easy talking" with your friends for the "hard work" of actually working on the communication between you and your husband is just a form of "conflict avoidance" and will not "magically" make the problem go away.



Yes, they will help.



Not until you stop lying to yourself. You WANT to believe that you have forgiven him and "moved past" all the resentment. Re-read what you said in this quotation and ask yourself if you BELIEVE you've "moved past it all."

When YOU forgive someone, YOU are making some promises to the one you are forgiving that YOU hold yourself accountable for keeping. If you don't do that, you are not yet truly forgiving, even if you "want to" forgive.


"When you forgive one another, therefore, you are promising to do three things about his wrong doings. You promise:

1. I shall not use them against you in the future.

2. I shall not talk to others about them.

3. I shall not dwell on them myself.

Just as the only way to begin to feel right toward another is to begin to do right toward him, so the only way to feel properly toward another, and ultimately even to forget those wrongs that he has done to you, is to keep the threefold promise that you make when you say ‘I forgive you.’ You see, you don’t have to feel forgiving in order to grant forgiveness; you just have to forgive." (What Do You Do When Your Marriage Goes Sour?)


Hang in there.

Thanks so much, Foreverhers.
I thought i had forgiven him, but that i was just AFRAID to open up my heart because of the severity of the hurt, but... when you listed the 3 steps to forgiveness...i'm not sure. ( i dont know how to add the quotes to my post.)
are these from Harley's books??

i break rule 1 - i do use it sometimes in our disagreements and bring it up.
2. i do still talk to my friends about wrong doings - but they are mostly of his wrong doings since d-day - like he promised to never be alone with another woman in a car again (because many of his sexual encounters were in cars) and last week, he took a ride home from the train with a neighbor woman. this opened up so much hurt for me. HOW COULD HE AGAIN BREAK A PROMISE TO ME???? it wasnt the point of the woman- it was the promise. He said that he was too embaressed to say no. when he saw how upset i was, he called our neighbor and told her that he doesnt ride alone in the car with women. this was a big step, but breaking his promise was a HUGE withdrawal from my love bank which is already bankrupt.

3. i do keep to number 3 of not dwelling on this wrongdoings. sometimes i may just be driving and images of him with the other women pops in my head. now it is not so painful, but it was in the beginning. the therapist explained that this was my brain's way of absorbing the shock of what happened to me.

To answer your question of why he confessed and dropped this bomb on me- He had a very important job and this was his whole identity and inflated his ego to think he was untouchable. About a year ago, he was forced out of his job and his whole world crashed around him. He had been work obsessed his whole life giving little time to me and our kids. He took his work and crackberry with him everywhere and traveled constantly. anyway- when all his so called friends in the business world were no longer there for him - he looked around and saw me. somehow his anger at me - ( he blamed me for everything he didnt like about himself) disappeared and he saw who he really was. He confessed in 3 days because he couldnt bear to tell me all at once - FOR HIS OWN SAKE- not for mine. He made NO Contact calls to all the women in front of me and wrote letters to some. We confronted 3 of the women i was friends with in person. He told them that the affair was a huge mistake and that he had confessed and he loved me and wanted total honesty to rebuild our marriage. He was a true narcissit- but in reality he has such low self esteem and hated himself and was abused by his father- who always told him he would be a failure.

i had suspected his affairs, and had so many clues now that i feel so stupid for not knowing but i also see that i really didnt want to know. he was so convincing at lying straignt to my face. even one time when i overheard a conversation with another woman ( who he was having an affair with) , he swore on our childrens' lives that he was not talking to her , but about her.

anyway- ARE YOU SAYING THAT IT WILL TAKE ME 12 YEARS TO RECOVER FROM THIS??? i have already wasted 30 years with the man- and i dont know if i want to waste any more time. Will it take this long for me if i leave him???????????

and pls explain why i dont have to feel forgiving to forgive. i dont understand that.

Truthfully - i should have been the one to have affairs because he was traveling constantly and paid no attention to me. he expected me to worship him only and wanted to put nothing into the marriage. he came to marriage counseling and lied. with his affairs- he only had to show up and they were happy to see him. no demands. i was constantly asking him to be home and be more involved and when he wouldnt i attacked him in his most vulnerable spots and called him a failure as a husband and father. it wasnt pretty.

now he only wants our marriage to work and says he will do anythign to change. i dont trust him yet and have fear of being hurt again.

so i am not sure if i totally forgave him. HELP!!!

No, sunflower, the "three promises" comes from a pamphlet our Marriage Counselor gave us when we began recovery counseling.

If you'd like the entire pamphlet, let me know (send me an email) and I'll send it to you. But you need to know that is a "Christian" counseling piece, so God IS mentioned prominently as it is directed to professing believers who are "in trouble" with their marriage.



The timeframe for recovery comes from a book (Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder) that was very valuable in understanding the types of affairs and recovery from them. Included in there is the timeframe reference I mentioned. Essentially what it is talking about is the realization of the damage done TO the Betrayed Spouse BY the affair(s) of the Unfaithful Spouse and how long it takes, ON AVERAGE, for a Betrayed Spouse to "work through" recovery and remove the "walls of protection" to allow intimacy, trust, and love to return and flourish. Adultery is NO SMALL sin to overcome.

I am NOT saying that it will take you 12 years, because a LOT of the healing process is dependent upon BOTH you and your husband.

In my case, it took almost 6 years before my wife could get to "no contact, not for any reason, for the rest of her life," even though the affair was dead and her "feelings" for the OM had changed to seeing him for what he really is...a self-absorbed alcoholic.

YOUR recovery will likely be shorter, but you have a LOT of affairs to overcome and you need to ask yourself "if it takes 12 years is that any different from a lifetime commitment to marriage FOR ME?" There are NO "guarantees" for marriage, not before an affair and not after. But the working through the recovery process makes both of you VERY aware of the dangers, the "little things," the way to BE married and IN LOVE with your spouse "until death do us part."




Because forgiving, just like love, is an ACTION verb. You CHOOSE to love and you choose to forgive. FEELINGS follow after the actions. Remember, forgiving does NOT mean "forgetting." Forgiving is a "legal term," not a "feeling term."

I can soooo relate to you, Sunflower.

hi rltraveled - thanks for saying that. i feel understood. were you married to a narcissit too?

thanks foreverhers for all the info. i am a spiritual person, but am not a Christian. The David Carder book might be worthwhile buying, but it sounds like it might be very negative too. does it stress hope??
My WH immediately went to confront the women in person with me, and called the other in front of me with the women on speaker phone and him telling them that he had told me everything, and that he would no longer have anything to do with them , as he loved me, and was dedicated to rebuilding his marriage. I truly think he was/is a broken person who was looking for acceptance and love wherever he could get it. he was also totally selfish to not care about me and our 3 children.
anyway - i do believe that God gave me this circumstance for me to learn to become the true me. i have finally become and am becoming a self confident, centered human being. i have read more books and message boards, and many therapies and interesting people on this path. God has brought each one to me when i was ready to hear that new therapy to help me grow.

the hardest thing for me remains - tearing down the walls of protection and letting my FWH into my heart. i am soooooo scared to be vulnerable.

A total narcissist who had been cheating on me pretty much since day one. I've been married to this man for 26 years now. Working on it, but the resentment is so high because of the affairs themselves, and other factors.

Yes it does, most definitely.

dear rltraveled- my H was such a narcissit that he told me when he confessed, that when he entered a room, he thought he was better than any other person in the room!! funnier, stronger, more successful. HOW SICK is that??/
anway- this condition is a mask for a person with extremely LOW self esteeem. when all the outside stuff is stripped away - there is nothing underneath. when my H lost his job, he was a scared little rabbit about everything. he was always afraid to show me the real him- because he thought i wouldnt love him or respect him. thats why he pushed me away and wouldnt get close to me. he never wanted intimacy because he thought the real scared him, would be revealed. i dont think he even knew he was doing this, until the masks came off.
in reality - his losing his job was the BEST thing that ever happened to him and to me.
i had also always been in awe of him- honored that this charismatic guy would pick me as a partner. then as our marriage progressed - i became afraid of his angry outbursts if i ever disagreed with him. i just cowered and cried. then he would feel bad and comfort me. what a sick pattern.
when our kids were born- since i wasnt getting any emotional needs met in my marriage with a narcissitic work-obsessed flirt for a husband, i became totally engrossed in them. he hated me even more for not needing him so much and growing up as a person. tore me down always and told me how fat i was and how stupid my job was. ( i have a masters with a great job.)
his losing his job changed him- all this fake stuff disapeared and he was sickened to see the man he was. he hated himself almost as much as i hated him at the time. he was in shock as to his actions and couldnt believ he did them.
he started to cheat when he felt unsuccessful at his job. his new bosses didnt like him and his sect came on to him. this was the first of many. it was his cocaine.
meanwhile at home, i loved my kids and become the greatest mother. i became close with my girlfriends and went to therapy, but still was afraid of being alone. now i am NOT. i like being alone and becoming a whole person. it feels so good and right.
i know now that i was a broken person too - to stay with a man like him for so long.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - does ANYONE out there have the same trouble as me??????????? do you feel like you are not sure if you want to stay in the marriage or if you want to end it????
i feel like i dont know because sometimes i feel like i love him and sometimes i feel like i dont like him at all. then i think- why am i waiting for this guy to change??? whats the point???is it worth it???
He would do ANYTHING i ask now and says he has always loved me all along- just that he was too selfish and angry to see it. But i dont want a guilt ridden, whining baby either. His conversational skills stink and he is always falling asleep.
We just started reading "How to survive and affair" and i think this may be the answer we need. It seems to have so many good ideas. I will follow it to a T, because i am a rule follower. Lets see about my H- who knows??
anyway- this daily unsettled feeling of not knowing if i am IN or OUT is upsetting me because i am the kind of person who likes to know whati am doing. I KNOW - that i should just flow with life- but one minute my life seems like something and teh next minute it seems like something else.
anyone esle been here??????????

James Dobson says at the end of his book "Love Must Be Tough" and another christian marriage counselor has said the same thing (Jimmy Evans) that it's a BS that often times ends the marriage after putting in months or years of effort. Even after the WS comes back and is doing everything they can to make things right. Dr. Dobson warns about it. It must be a common thing.

Thanks- at least i know i am not abnormal!

Well- today i am feeling more hopeful for the marriage. My H has actually set a time for us to have our couple time, and made sure we did it. This is big- because most of the time it has been me, or he has only been looking for me inconsistently. We definitely need these love deposits for me to feel love for him again.

I still know i am soo guarded and afraid to get my hopes up. I also know that it is totally normal to protect myself from someone who hurt me so much.

for people who have done phone work with the Harleys- has it been helpful? What are the topics you talk about? Is it for individuals or couples?

I will try anything and everything to heal myself from this. On monday, i am getting hypnotized!

Sunflower55

I am fairly new here and have felt like marriage was over after 20 years. Unlike you, I was the WS but maybe you can get something from my thread "I'm at the end" by Nowisthemoment. I used to call myself Whenifever, but eventually I was renamed. Huge step. Everyone helped me tremendously. I was determined to make my marriage work having hurt my H and myself so much.

All the best.

Dear Nowisthemoment-
wow- i just finished reading your posts on "i'm at the end" and i dont know where to start. i have so much to say-

First- i have been married to the kind of guy you had an affair with- that charismatic, attractive, funny,succesful, flirty guy that many women are attracted to. We married when i was 21, and he was only my second boyfriend. My first boyfriend sounds like your husband- he idolized me- put me on a pedastal and was kind and loving. Sex with him was wonderful!

Then i met my husband and ended the relationship with the sensitive, caring guy. NOW I REGRET THAT SOOO MUCH!!!

I was attracted to my H, because my mom had abused me, and i wasnt used to being with a guy who only gave me kindness. How sick is that???Of course this was all subconscous and i was soo young.

Anyway- i read a book "What to do when you love a man who loves himself". It seems that many women are attracted to these kind of men who are strong and opinionated and self-assured, but they advise women to RUN from these kind of men. The kind of men we should look for relationships with are the men like your husband!!! The guy sitting in the corner of the bar, being humble, not the guy in the middle telling jokes to everyone.

I will also tell you that sex is MUCH better with a sensitive guy because he wants to PLEASE the woman. The insensitive, egomaniac, just wants to please the woman to make himself feel like all that in bed. He doesnt really want to know what she wants.

Dr. Oz on Oprah says the biggest sex organ for women is ...THE BRAIN!!!!! we can turn ourselves on by what we think of a man!!!! It seems like you have been able to do that and i am happy for you.

TREASURE THE KIND, SENSITIVE LOVING MAN YOU HAVE.

If you need him to be more assertive, this should be brought up in therapy. This is something he needs to work on himself..building up his own self esteem.

Heres another secret- the charismatic guy is really so insecure and has low self esteem. if the really liked themselves so much, they wouldnt need so much attentnion all the time.

Thank God, my FWH has now become the gentle, loving , humble guy. After confessing everything and losing his important job, he had a total character transformation. he realized he was a failure as a husband and as a father. Now he wants to rebuild his life, and i am trying to rebuild our marriage.

My big problem is somewhat like yours but different- i dont feel attracted to him at all. My non- attraction is because of all the hurt he caused me. I dont want to be vulnerable to him by letting him touch me. The only thing we have done since one year ago, is hold hands and i have let him hold me in bed.

During his affairs of 12 years, he constantly rejected me sexually. He wouldnt even look at me, or touch me in anyway. Once a year, we had sex on our anniversary and it was terrible. Now i cant get the images of him having sex with so many women while i was home waiting and yearning for him.

Well- i'm not sure if you can help me on my end. I dont know how to let him into my heart and break down the walls of protection i have built. we are working on the Survivng an Affair book, but are only in the beginning. I am hopeful that these exercises will help. Maybe when i feel safe with him, i will feel attracted to him.

I dont know.

anyone else out there feel like me with their FWH?????

Sunflower

sunflower

your h cheated on you for 12 years and only confessed due to his own feelings of failure from his carrier collapse.

i don't know about taking 12 years but to think you can process all those A's and work thru them in one year would seem unlikely. i would think that each A would need to be worked thru on it's own. as soon as you get past the redhead you have the blonde. KWIM?

your trust issues should be real. what happens when his professional ego is regained? does he resume the old him? he was so convincing "lieing to your face" for 12 years how would you expect to believe him hook, line and sinker now?

and you SHOULD NOT. TRUST should be EARNED not given.

there are some real time worn characteristics issues that your h has that will take a long time for him to completely conquer. the same as an alchoholic takes many years to beat his addiction your h will take many years to beat his addiction to cheating.

that is not to say he will cheat again but he wil be tempted.
and from your discription of him he most likely has it subconciously in his head that he can tell you anything and get it by you. he needs time also

i would also like to put something else on the table for you to consider.

you said......Then i met my husband and ended the relationship with the sensitive, caring guy. NOW I REGRET THAT SOOO MUCH!!!............

do you think that your regretting this so much has caused your feelings of not being able to let your h back into your heart? maybe you are in the "if i had just stayed with you-know-who.

Don't feel bad because i still have no clue how to use the quote feature. but then again our 7 yo is has more computer skills then i do.

Thanks Pops for the insight-
i totally agree that he needs to earn my trust. His journey has been up and down this past year. for the first 8 months- he wallowed in self pity!!! YES- he felt sorry for himself. he was a true narcissit. It was like he was in a dream his whole life and never really understood how backwards his life was- and then after d-day- HE WOKE UP. SAW HIMSELF AS HE WAS AND HATED HIMSELF. he was in total shock over his own cheating!!

he was suicidal and catatonic- the therapists said that i should have checked him into the hospital- but i didnt want to scare my kids. he was in therapy almost everyday.

meanwhile- he was not putting my needs into the equation at all. just feeling sorry for himself.

finally - he listened to the therapist and decided to listen to me. i was also listening to the therapist who told me to give him one year before i asked him to leave. he had moved out initially for about a week, but then by the advice of our therapist, he moved back home into the basement.

i agree that his cheating was an addiction and that i will always have that in the back of my mind. trust will take years to come back.

one thing that helps is that he is so sickened by his own behavior.

as far as my regretting not staying with the other guy...i used to think about it alot after d-day. i tried to contact him and searched for him and never found him. i left phone messages for anumber i thought was him and never got a response. i had heard he was divorced. now i dont think if him much.

now i think God wanted me to marry my husband, so i could hit this rock bottom and become my true self. i would have never done it otherwise. i had to learn the lesson of being able to love myself and understand that i could live by myself if i needed to. now i have no fear of being alone and divorced.

i always feared him leaving me... and he knew it and used to threaten me in the middle of fights and i would beg him to stay. i had severe abandonment issues. now i am free of them!

idk- but i am not consumed about the affairs anymore. i am consumed about becoming a whole person- have taken up yoga, meditation, time with girlfriends, hypnosis,etc. it is so much fun!

i just need time now to see if i really want him in my life or not. part of me does and part of me doesnt.

sunflower

S-55

I finally made it over to your thread.


A number of things jump out at me.


Your husband has seen himself, yes. But I think he already saw this "self" before, and has only now been able to talk to others about this self. He has just come to a point in his life where he has decided that the persona he has presented to the world for so long is someone he doesn't like. That charismatic life-of-the-party guy is a facade he kept up, and probably never really wanted to keep up. Someone he invented years ago, and then just couldn't shake off of himself.

And then, the world crashed. He lost his job, and things slid downhill. D-day came. And so he had an opportunity to start over. His confession, his life, it was all laid bare. He was indeed broken.

And here he is a year later. Worried about whether or not you will stay or leave. He has watched your changes, wondering about his own. He is wandering in the world as much as you are, but on a different timeline, and a different sort of path.

Of course he never stopped loving you.

The affairs were patches. Ego patches, if you can think of them like that. You were engrossed in the kids, in your world. He was busy trying to be something he was not, keeping up a facade he couldn't maintain for long. With each of the OW, well, he could only maintain it for a short time, because my guess is that he was trying on a new personality with each of them. But nothing really worked....so it was on to a new one....a new patch.

But then he was broken. And you......stayed........because you are the real deal.

He knows that, and knew it all along. But somewhere in our lives, we seem to forget that about our spouses. Too often, we forget that we married our best friend. We married the person we felt closest to, loved, and wanted to share a life with forever. Somehow we betray that in ourselves, and start down paths that are too separate from one another. We begin to think negative thoughts, to judge the other one disrespectfully, and to believe that somehow they couldn't allow us to change who we are and still accept us.

Only look - you are changing, and he accepts you. Wants you, wants to love you, work on the marriage with you, wants to make love with you.

And he is changing, too, and he is now more sensitive and caring - your own words - and yet, you hold back.


why is that


I think I know.

But the work is now on you to know.


SB

SB
WHO ARE YOU AND HOW DO YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT ME AND MY LIFE?????????? WOW !

i cried each time i read your post. i read it many times and thought about what you said all night and you know EXACTLY where i am. OMG- it feels good and scary in a way.

Yes- i married my best friend and then we lived our seperate lives and i began to dislike the fake, people-pleasing, flirty person he was. BUT- he was that way when i met him- i just didnt see it because he expressed his love so well to me.

then he had to work so hard to keep up his facade that he was exhausted every time he was home with us. i thought it was because he didnt love me/us- but in reality - he didnt love himself enough to show us and the world the real him.

now he is doing exactly that. the mask is off. he is naked in front of me..... and i am not sure if i want him. i am standing behind giant walls.

your question HAUNTS me and i thought about all night...WHY??

you said you think you know but that i need to know.

is it that ..I'M AFRAID IF I LET MYSELF LOVE HIM AGAIN- I WILL BECOME THAT DEPENDENT, CRITICAL, INSECURE PERSON AGAIN???

THAT I WILL LOSE MYSELF AGAIN AND ALL THAT I HAVE BUILT UP??

i think that is it.. along with extreme fear of being hurt again.

IS IT??

SF

SCHOOLBUS..... WHERE ARE YOU???????????????/

I know you said in one of your posts that you would be busy getting ready for school, but if you come here--PLEASE answer me.

You said you KNOW why and i need to know. Can you read my last post to you???

sunflower