till new here and eager to learn. i posted my sad tale on the EN forum an wanted to know if anyone here has had to deal with touch issues.

My W does not like to be touched. She never has. She grew up in an aweful environment riddled with drug use, adultry, divorce, and abuse, both sexual and physical.

She has never been able to accept touch as comfort. She loves sex (just not with me, see my intro post for more on that), but cannot stand to be touched. Trust is ha been an obvious problem with us as wel.

Hugs offer no comfort, even when they came from her own mother or her only real sister. It has always been an issue and I wondered if any of you had any insight.

desperate to improve and get to a new level of intimacy, we are barely hanging on and maybe just grabbing at straws.

I am not sure what the solution is but I can sure see what the problem is. By allowing her to run over you for all these years with no protest, she has LOST RESPECT. She is DISGUSTED. A woman's love for a man is contingent upon the respect she feels for him. A woman wants a man who is man enough to put her in her place if need be. She doesn't want to have to tell a man how to act like a man.

By rewarding her all these years for her ABUSE, you have caused her to disrespect you. Plain and simple. My H did the same for 20 years and I could not BEAR to have him touch me. Not because I had childhood issues with "touch" but because of the DISGUST I felt. I CRINGED when he touched me.

passivenomore, I hope you mean it when you say you are passivenomore, because I believe that is the root of the problem. No woman is interested in a man she can run over; who just asks for more and then avoids conflict at all cost.

When she is allowed to abuse you with no consequences, she learns to HATE the sight of you, because you are a reminder of the bi*ch she can be.

I am sorry to be so harsh, but I know exactly how she feels.

You bring out the very WORST in her and she is reminded of how BAD she can really be whenever she is in your presence. What if you changed this and tried to bring out the BEST in her? Stopped rewarding her abuse? Instead, put down boundaries and teach her to RESPECT YOU. You have trained her to abuse you with your conflict avoidance all these years, and she hates you for it.

I'm game for that....i would give it all away just to learn how to bring the best in her out.

Gain respect, be the man she needs, provide for her every need.

We've trained each other to act this way for years, and it will change one way orthe other.

You still sound bitter towards your guy for doing the same. I'm curious how it worked out there?

pnm, he left me for a woman who would look up to him.

sorry to hear that. So have these issues been repeated for you if not him?

No, they have not been repeated for me because I married a man with good boundaries this time.

What happened with my last H is very predictable, though, because EXTREME giving leads to extreme TAKING. After he gave and gave and gave for years, he became SO RESENTFUL that he decided he was entitled to have an affair. His extreme giving, along with his conflict avoidance and lack of boundaries led to the demise of our marriage.

I lost all respect for him and could not be intimate with him anymore. That lack of intimacy made him vulnerable to the first woman who came along and gave him attention. He was like a starving man in front of a buffet with the OW.

Mel,

Did you try to save the first M after you found out that he had an A? What was the outcome of the A?

Chai, I did not try to save my marriage, but wanted a divorce.

He is still in his affair, 9 years later, and lives with the OW.

no amount of temptation would make me want to stray. I feel fortunate that we love and respect each other in so many other areas.

So, let me ask you this: what could he have done to fixed things, or do you think it could have been fixed? could he learn proper boundaries? would you have honored them?

I feel like the task before us is monumental, but we both want things to be better and are willing to try.

I am reding Boundaries now thanks to the recomendation of another wise forum member. Will it help me? too early to tell.

passive, do you think your wife WANTS you to put a stop to her abuse?

I think I could have learned to respect him if he had established boundaries and then HONORED them. Boundaries have to be honored by the owner or they are not boundaries. I needed to see consequences for my abuse, rather than APPEASEMENT. It was the appeasement that really, really made me SICK. It made me hate him and it made me hate myself.

With my current H, I just know he would not tolerate abuse for 2 seconds. And he knows I won't. I respect him for that.

Another thing that means so much to me is that he will MAKE DECISIONS. He does not relegate all the decision making to me and can be counted on to be a leader.

Dr. Harley talks about the 3 states of mind in a marriage and it talks about how one spouse can lead the other back to a state of intimacy in marriage:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3600_state.html

See, if I mistreated this husband, I would not be REWARDED. I would be frozen out with the LOOK. He would be AGHAST. He looks at me with HORROR when I am act badly. I can SEE how idiotic I look through HIS EYES. The look on his face says it all. He sure does not want to be around me when I act bad so there is an immediate consequence.

good question.
Does she want me to stop it? hell yes! her respect is dependant on it~ i know what she wants, but haven't figured out how to consistently be that guy for her yet.

We haven't played by these new rules...not for 22 years.

I have tried some 180 stuff, and it has worked remarkably well to open her back up, but i fear the changes will be short lived because i don't know how to make my new actions consistent. Or, i don't know how to make hem apply in other areas yet, if that makes any sense.

I also have issues with not seeming mean while I try to be this new person. I have to find a way to learn respect and caring without caving in.

thanks for the link, BTW.

you know, I don'teven know enough yet to know what is bad behavior form her. I am so used to being treated the way i am that I don't know where to throw those boundaries down just yet. I feel like I need a personal Yoda to show me the way.

gotcha! She needs to be able to count on you to protect your own boundaries when she spirals out of control. I understand that consistency is critical.

You know, I think if you learn to set boundaries and establish self respect, that she could learn to respect you too. I don't know how to teach a passive man to become assertive, but i wonder if individual counseling would be helpful?

it must be possible. will go to any lengths to improve things.

I have command in so many other areas, like in business, but with her I just give in. I thought out of love, but now I am learning it is like being a bad parent and I feel like I have to learn "tough love".

I have always enjoyed caring for her without restraint, never knowing it could be harmful.

Must stay strong, will not revert back to my old ways!

[/quote]
She needs to be able to count on you to protect your own boundaries when she spirals out of control. [/quote]

can you offer an example here?

She needs to be able to count on you to protect your own boundaries when she spirals out of control. [/quote]

can you offer an example here? [/quote]

Yes, she wants you to STOP her when she mistreats you. OR remove yourself from her presence when she acts like an [censored]. What she doesn't want is to be coddled and appeased when she acts like a creep.

after being walked on for so long, it will take tme for me to figure out what of her behavior is innappropriate.

I can see where individual counseling will help there. jesus, i'm gonna have to carry a log book with me to keep track of events!

Assertiveness will come, and I am looking forward to it, but the fear of her loss has been there for so long, I will have to have trust in God (and myself) that it will garner respect and not loss.

I've always felt that her bark is worse than her bite...i guess putting things in motion will test that theory.

Thanks for the example, and for the avice. It is duly noted and appreciated.