We have been married 22 years and have two almost grown children. Back around November I started to have a funny feeling about the way my husband was acting. Very out of character for him. I had suspicions that he may be having an affair. Our cell phone bill had gone up considerably. I confronted him in February when, for the first time since we had been married, he did not acknowledge Valentines Day. He gave me a very lame set of excuses. Because of body language, lame excuses, defensiveness in word and other tell tale signs, he gave himself away. But I never new the extent of this "friendship". I just recently found proof, about two weeks ago, that my husbands EA turned into a PA. It has been some time since they have been in contact by the sound of the email from the OW to my husband. I'm assuming about 4-5 months. His reply to her was "he did not want to screw things up with me as things were going really well with us and that their time together would have to remain a memory." Our marriage has been a decent one, but our relationship has always lacked in the emotional intimacy department. I understand, to an extent, the possible motivation behind his affair as I committed the very same mistake a few years back and have worked very hard to regain his trust in me. I have no desire to end my marriage. My only desire, and I know it is his also as he has voiced the same opinion, is to work on making our relationship the best it has ever been. My delema is how to tell him, through love and empathy, I know of his affair (since he has in no uncertain terms told me he has never been unfaithful to me) without putting him on the defenive so that we can put this all out on the table and start to make our relationship better?

You can either go the causal way.

I was checking out things on the computer and found this email from so and so... Can you explain this to me?

OR

print it out if its not deleted yet, ask him point blank if he has or is in an A at this moment. And that you want complete H&O about it so the M can be fixed.

Either way it needs to be addressed. And he will either talk with you about it or hes gonna blow... If he blows tell him exactly what you feel and that you want to work on your M. If hes willing to work on M and he is still in contact with the OW he needs to NC her immediatly and you two need to start working on the M.

Thanks for the reply, Pretty Face.
I put a keylogger on our computer and this is how I found out about his affair. So I can't go that route. The server he has that email address through is one that is different from the server for our computer, which is one I did not know he had, and would not have known about it without the key logger. I only wish I had put it on sooner, like when I first thought something was fishy, but "I" felt guilty about thinking about putting it on our computer. I didn't like the idea that I would be spying on my husband. !!

If his emails leave no room for denial, I wouldn't bother asking him about it. Just have a chunk of time to talk and tell him since you have both had affairs, you want to work to affair proof your mariage. ( I am assuming he knows about your affair-if I am reading your post correctly).

No accusations or anything, here's the facts of the past, what kind of marriage do we want and how are we going to get there.

You are correct, Jean....his reply to her leaves no room for denial. He had originally asked her to meet with him and then set a second email recanting his request stating the reason I mentioned before. I want to talk with him this weekend because I can't think of much else. "Here's the fact....and how are we going to get there" seems like a pretty good place for me to start thinking about how to start this dialogue. And you are correct, I have no desire for accusations. That would be the kettle calling the pot black! Thanks for your input

I find your reaction very unnerving and odd. Can you explain your lack of affect? Are you not bothered by his affair?

Mornin' Melody,
Let me see if I can explin this....
Not bothered by his A? On the contrary. When I found proof positive, my heart felt like it was going to pound out of my chest, I cried for over a day and always felt like I was going to vomit. Hubby is a truck driver and this always gives me a chance to gather myself together before he gets home. Like I said, I Choose to Act not React. Over my life time, I have been the sounding board to many affairs, hearing both sides of the story(due to my profession). I believe I have a fairly decent insight as to why A's happen. Although each circumstance is different. That being said, let me say that I Do Not Condone anyone's decision to choose to have an A as a way to run and hide from the trouble's of M.
Why accuse him? I already know for a fact that the affair has happened. He has no contact with her for the past 4-5 months as I can tell. I keep a close eye on the cell phone bills and I do have the keylogger on the computer. That's the best I can do because I cannot afford a P.I. to do the spying for me. Fore warned is fore armed. See, when I React, I always say something nasty that can never be taken back. I do have the tendency to be a screaming meanie. I don't like myself like that and too much damage can be done(no need to add salt to the wound). So, therefore I Choose to think before I Act. Does that make any sense to you? I hope that it does.
I love my husband. We have wonderful plans(that we have planned Together for our future) and I don't want my marriage to go down the tubes. But...I am very capable of fullfilling my life without him, which I do not want to do, as I have come to be a very strong woman in my own right over the years.
All this being said, this is the reason I want to figure out a way to approach him and tell him that I know of his A(w/o giving away how I found out)without causing more harm to each of us and to our marriage.

What exactly do you mean by "ACCUSE" him"? Do you mean you will not confront him about this and bring it out in the open?

There is a huge difference between NOT REACTING and NOT THINKING. In fact, people often THINK BETTER and make better decisions while ANGRY.

Reacting to a tragic situation is an intelligent, necessary thing to do. It has nothing to do with "not thinking." Pretending like you are not hurt with him is not an HONEST REACTION. Pretending to not be bothered is not healthy for him, you or your marriage.

So what do you mean when you say you "won't accuse?" Are you suggesting you won't be HONEST about what you know?

Ok, I just read this again and found this paragraph. This is so confusing. So you DO intend on confronting him, so when you say you won't "accuse" you don't really mean that. [if you discuss the affair, that is an accusation] And when you say you won't REACT, you don't really mean that. You mean you won't react EMOTIONALLY. You intend on reacting strategically, not emotionally. Am I getting close?? So very confused....

I don't think this needs to be analyzed to death. Simply sit down with him and tell him you know the facts. Real simple. Ask him for an explanation. [sympathy is uncalled for, so don't be silly about it] Ask him what he thinks has led to this and have a plan of recovery in your back pocket.

For example, the conditions that made him vulnerable to an affair should be examined. He should also agree to end contact with the OW for life, via a no contact letter. The key thing will be for you to stop spending nights apart. That is a BREEDING GROUND for adultery - as you can see.

Here is the program of recovery recommended by Dr Harley:

Requirements for Recovery from an Affair
entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=147963&Number=2002600#Post2002600

I think this BS was just asking for advice on how to start a constructive dialogue with her WH instead of one where she was "accusing" and he was defending.

I can relate since the first conversation I had with exWH was one similar. Here's the evidence of the A now what's the plan.

Unsurestill, I am curious about your username, what are you unsure off?

I think you're right, Jean, I had to read it several times to get it because she plans to accuse, just not in a way that makes him defensive.

Hi Jean and Melody...
Jean, it seems you have understood my intentions correctly. I'm so stuck on how to start this conversation. Hence my username.
Unsure still about how to start. Thank you for understanding my intentions.
Melody, I'm glad with rereading you seem to understand better. My choice of words may have not been correct enough to provide clarity. I Do plan to tell him I know about the A,and to ask him why he felt it was his only option, why he felt he couldn't talk to me about it, what he plans to do to make sure this doesn't happen again, etc....I have many questions to ask him. To me accusations are not backed by fact...they are 'accusations'. I have the one fact that I need to confirm my suspicions. Also, I am not one of the people that 'think' well while angry. I need to calm down and regroup before I say anything. This is why I need to think before I act. Just so there is no confusion, I did react to the information I found by falling apart emotionally. I am an emotional person by nature so this conversation that I will be having with my husband will be emotionally charged for me, which is why I Need to think very hard about what and how I am going to say so that I come across to him very clearly. So yes, you are correct with understanding that I need and want to do this conversation strategically. I very much appreciate the "Requirements for Recovery" section. It gave me a few more ideas. I have been trying to read as much as possible here on MB'ers to get all the information I can. I plan on ordering a few of the books when I get my next pay check. I'm sure the books will help clarify things to me even more.

If you knew my husband you would understand how completely out of character this is for him. Had someone said to me 20 years ago that he would cheat on me, I would have bet the lives of my children that it would not happen. Good thing I'm not a bettin' woman ! His affair has rocked me to the core, make no mistake about that! I learned a long time ago not to get stuck in my own pain for too long as that can be a hinderence. This could be why I may sound like I have not been affected by this.

Unsure,

I can relate to so much of what you say, we seem to have alot in common. I had also had an affair, my H and I reconciled so I was very aware of how they happen and how to affair proof myself.

I also found the proof and I just tossed the cell phone with the incriminating text in his lap and waited in another room for him to come talk to me. There was no denying anything in my mind, it was very much, what do we do with this new information?

The main difference is that my ex was in an active affair and it sounds like yours may have already ended it. I think so many WS don't want to deal with the BS anger, it will bode well for you that you have known about it, have processed the info and are in repair mode. I am sure you may go thru more anger as details of his A come out, but that will pass if he maintains NC.

I am still not clear-does he know about your A and did you work through that or was it just pushed aside. Mine was pretty muched pushed aside, he didn't want to dissect and analyze, not a good idea for real recovery.

I guess I wonder if that is why you have sat on this info for a couple of weeks, if he doesn't know about your A, your hesitation makes more sense to me. Most woman who find the incriminating emails would not contemplate their response as much as you seem to be doing.

This is a great place to be in a real crappy situation. Glad you found MB.

I just reread and you said you had worked very hard to regain his trust in you so I assume he knows about your previous A. So nevermind my comments in previous post.

Now I am more curious, how do you act like nothing is wrong when you are with him?

Hi Jean

Yes, it does sound like our situations are similar. And yes, Hubby does know about my A. If my memory serves me correcty, he read the journal I was keeping at the time(an insecurity issue of his). I'm much more careful with my journals these days We hashed everything out...why I was drawn to the OM(he payed attention to me), why I didn't talk with my husband about how I was feeling(one gets very tired of spending years talking to a brick wall), how wrong I was in my actions, etc... To this day I still tell him the who, what, when and where of any place I go. Even though he tells me I no longer need to do this, I continue because I want him to understand that I have no secrets and that his feelings now matter very much to me(something that I had not always very concerned about). I have had NC with the OM in almost 4 years. Even tho I do sometimes wonder how he is doing as we had been friends, true friends, for more than 10 years(I was the one to have pushed the boundaries). But my marriage, and husband, is more important to me than finding out how the OM is doing.

I am glad that I found MB. It has given my much to read and digest.

Ah, "Most women"....I have worked very hard within my lifetime Not to react as most women would(Please, I mean no disrespect to anyone!). I very much dislike the feeling of being out of control. Whether it's getting drunk or getting angry. For me the result can be the same...saying and doing things that can Never, Ever be retracted! An A is rough enough to deal with without adding highly charged, run-away emotions to the mix.

How do I act like nothing is wrong when we are together? Well...that has taken some practice! Hubby is a truck driver and not home every night. This gives me time to deal with all the negative emotions,feelings, thoughts and images that tend to slip into my brain. I constatly remind myself of 1) the hows and whys of my own A, 2) that the A is not about our marriage 3) that the A was most likely an escape mechanism to the stress we have had over the past 5-6 years(but that's a whole other story). I focus on 1) we have always had a great sex life 2) we are planning wonderful things for our future 3) the fact that he Loves Me 4) the fact that I Love him and 5) having high hopes for an even better emotional intimate relationship with him. I stop myself from allowing the mental images of them being together to invade my thoughts. I stop myself from allowing the words from that last email to invade my thoughts and bring me down. I Choose to be in control of my own thoughts. And that choice is Not to let the negative invade the thoughts and plans that I see for our future. I Choose not to dewell on the negative. I did all my hoopin' and hollarin' and crying and foot stompin' and name callin' when I found that email. Now it's time to move on and start to set things right. Of course, this is not to say I won't be emotional when I confront him and that's ok with me. But I Do Not want to be emotionally out of control. That accomplishes nothing. I hope I have quenched your curiosity

Thanks for the history, it makes more sense in my mind.

You remind me of my very initial reaction to finding the text message from my ex's OW. I literally thought "Wow, he has more to give in a relationship, now that I know he needs more, our marriage can be great!".

My WH was very confused by my calm attitude, but you sound like me. I understand the dynamics of an affair, I know how to affair proof myself, I know how I change when I devoted myself 100% to my marriage, it sounded like we were going to break thru another plateau of our marriage. (Of course, that didn't pan out but...)

If I may ask another question...

What will you do if upon you revealing your knowledge of the affair, what if hubby says, "everything is fine, I stopped the affair, I love you but we don't need to work on our marriage, everything is fine now".

I think that is one area I screwed up in. The day after d-day, we literally holed ourselves in a room for days dissecting and analyzing. I was in full on repair mode and he was quite shell shocked. He was in mourning mode and that didn't sit well with me.

Now, that shouldn't be your problem if your WH has maintained NC for these past months.

BUT...

What if he doesn't want to do the work to affairproof the future?

Is he only home on weekends? Are you planning to talk to him soon?

Another thing that struck me, your quip about being more careful with your journals and the talking to a brick wall remark.

Can you talk to your H about your feelings, are you being open and honest?

I admit, I am not a journal keeper, but are there things in there that you wouldn't want him reading?

Well, I know he has gone through the mourning stage. It was pretty sad because it was so obvious(to me). I really felt bad for him because I remember my withdrawal peroid and the pain I felt. So at this point I feel like we're in the honeymoon stage. Knowing my husband, I'm quite sure he will say there is no work to be done because it is over and he has not had contact with OW. From there I plan to bring up that the OW was able to touch a place within him that I have not been able to get to and therefore there is work for us to do. Or something along those lines. The drastic end, if I need to get that far, will be to remove myself(or him) from our bedroom and take up residence in our guest room until he can see things my way(bad choice of works). Like I said, I have become a strong woman and am not about to beat around the bush once I get started. I don't think he will agree to a MC as we had tried that once before(there's that brick wall I was talking about before). I had explained to H that I was not happy in our marriage, gave him the reasons why and asked that we come up with a plan together to make things better. He couldn't see why I was unhappy and told that to the MC(a christian MC). Who then proceeded to tell Me that I needed to get a life of my own within our marriage where I could feel fullfilled!! Excuse me, but anymore of a life of my own and I would not need to be married!(At that point in time I was taking care of two kids, their social schedules, practice schedules, going out with friends because we never went out because he was always tired, PLUS I was self employed and had a successfull thriving business that I managed!!) So that MC was completely useless. Every time I think about that my feathers start to get ruffled in a Big Way! There is no option about working on our relationship. We do, or I walk. I want my husband and I want our marriage. I Love my husband. But...I do not Need my husband. Can you understand that?

He is only gone three evenings a week. We text constantly on the cell phone(something I started to do once I found out that this is what he and the OW were doing) and he calls me every night that he is out. This is something he has always done since he started driving.

I keep a journal only when I need to vent. It's my therapist. The first journal was kept due to my A. I wrestled with a lot of guilty feelings and about whether to leave my husband. I used it to sort out my feelings for both men. So yes there was stuff in there that I did not want him to see or read, no more than I would want him in a therapy session with me if I had these same issues that I needed to work out. This journal was started when I started to have suspicions about the possibility of his having an A. It was a way for me to keep track of events. And keep track of my feelings. This journal though, if he found and read would reveal too much of how I accquired my information. So, I would not want him to read this one either. Anything else I wouldn't care if he read as he would then know the range of emotions I had gone through(which I'm sure he would be able to identify with because of my A).

Sometimes when I talk to him about how, what and why I am feeling something, I get told how that makes Him feel uncomfortable! This has only been since he has been involved with the OW. I believe this happens because I get too close to the truth for him to know how to deal with my feelings because his feelings of guilt may be getting in the way. But, hey, I have been known to be wrong

I do need to speak with him soon. I was setting myself up for this weekend coming up, because not telling him I know about the A is starting to weigh too heavy on my heart. And if I wait much longer I may not say anything at all and just push it aside. This is something that I Do Not want to do.

Another part of our history(which is the reason for my being so harsh about Walking)is that this is not the firt time. But this is the first time that he has pushed it to a PA. I was just starting to get over the second internet "friendship" when I started to think there may be another one starting up. In April of this year I made it Very Clear to him that if I Ever found out again that he had done something like this again(at this point I did not know that he had been physically intimate with the OW)I would walk. I know he thinks I won't. But, I will. I believe I need to read Plan B a few more times to get it set in my head. But any suggestions that you have, I would be most appreciative of. Thanks for listening and allowing me to vent

Just so that I make myself clear to all...Leaving is a Last Resort. I will fight for our marriage. But...I refuse to stay in a marriage that will not get strong enough to be able to resist temptation, again.

Hmmm,

So a few months ago you two have a conversation about his EA and you tell him if he ever sleeps with another woman than you are outta there.

I believe that most people would say that before they have experienced it, but most of us stay around to try and save the marriage. I can certaintly see how you said that and how you have changed your mind.

What troubles me is that the conversation was so recent, the EAs so recent and then he gets into ANOTHER affair and takes it physical.

What are we dealing with here:
sense of entitlement
calling your bluff
no respect for you or marriage
not wanting to fix problems that caused previous affairs

I wonder what his plan is? He gives up OW when things are good at home but seems real quick to find a new one at his whim.

I'm just thinking out loud, maybe stirring something that you can reflect on.

Have you thought about what boundary you are going to set when you do confront him.

I am surprised that no one has chimed in to say the OTR trucking needs to change, that time apart is not helping your marriage.

Have you been tested for STDs?

So he is not in an active affair, that you know of. It sounds like you have been planAing with the increased text messages and stuff. So the problem is not the OW, it is the NEXT OW that you need to worry about.

My feeling is that you need to start forming a list of things for marital recovery and affair proofing precautions. If he can't get on board then you need to think about planB.

Bear in mind, my marriage didn't survive (but I did and his affair didn't), I wouldn't blame you for not taking my advice (my little disclaimer).