I don't know who you are or where you're coming from - but this is just so PERFECT

Quote

The first step is to ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

I wanted to acknowledge you and tip my cap to you (*tipping cap smilie*)

When there is so much emotional flooding in a situation, the truth and acceptance of the truth gets bypassed

People are in a hurry to feel better and are often in a hurry to "get past" the pain -- the truth becomes too bothersome to consider

The pain will persist until one accepts the truth of their lives -- me as much as everyone else

I remember doing this --- turning a blind eye to the truth of my life

Thank you for an important reminder of basic of living well 101 ---

this IS the first step

amen amen amen

Your words helped me out -- thank you !

Pep

PS - I did correct your typos - hope that is OK

but I took the liberty because I am older than you

WAIT- I CANT BELIEVE IT PEPPERBAND!! YOU NAMED A THREAD AFTER ME!!!!!!

Thanks so much for the positive feedback and acknowledgement.

Where i came from is a year of making myself a new person, and learning about myself, and about my FWH and our marriage.

These are the things i have done in this past year:

1) Flown to Florida to get a full day of one-on- two therapy from Gary Neuman, author of "Emotional Infidelity - How to Affair-Proof Your Marriage and 10 Other Secrets to a Great Relationship". This was life altering.

2) Gone to weekly marriage counseling with my H.

3) Spent hundreds of dollars on Amazon, reading about every book about Infidelity and Personal change- ordering them and reading some. I still have one box left.

4) Spent countless hours on the phone, going out to coffee, dinner, lunch, etc. with my great girlfriends- who gave me new insights and were shoulders to cry on and loved me for me. They were my safe place to fall.

5) Spending hours on another web site similar to this one, and meeting (on line and on the phone) one incredible lady there- who actually got me through my beginning days by talking and e mailing me constantly. My H even spoke to her H, and gave each other support.

6) Googling "Resentment" one day, (my therapist's advise) and finding Bill Ferguson, who wrote a book that changed my life- "How to Heal a Painful Relationship".

7) Spending hours on the phone with Bill F. doing work to get rid of my resentment and forgive my H. This is the man who gave me that statement (I'm not that smart) about accepting the truth.

8) Beginning the Harley books. I bought 4. Reading a chapter nightly with my H.

9) Reading and doing the couple exercises in Dr. Phil's "Relationship Rescue".

10) Going to a few BAN meetings. These didnt help me much, because almost everyone in my group was talking about how to handle their upcoming divorces, and i was trying to stay in the marriage.

11) Got hypnotized to get rid of my resentments and forgive. I just did this, so i need to keep going and listen to the tape to see how well it works.

12) Went to a Holistic Chiropractor to treat me for stress disorder.

13) On the advise of my hypnotist, am about to go to Alanon meetings- as she says that many of the problems there are things that i am experiencing.

14) Became a student of Tai Chi.

15) Am about to start Yoga.

16) And now , happily, joined this Web site and this message board. Some of the posts here have already helped me so much.

And there is no feeling like having another person know EXACTLY what i am talking about .... like you do and other people on this board-including a very wonderful, perceptive woman SCHOOLBUS.

She helped me tremendously with one of her posts to me.

I personally think , that as we learn in the process of healing, it helps us, and it helps others, to pass on what we have learned. That is how the Universe is intended.

Because right now, Pepperband, i feel soooooo happy that i could help another human being in some small way, as you say i helped you.

In reality- YOU HAVE HELPED ME- by your reaching out to me and telling me this.

And thanks for fixing the typos.

Even if you weren't older- i would give you permission.

Sunflower

PS- as i reread this i know i have become obsessed with healing from this hurt and changing my life. There really isnt anything i wont try.

Most of the time I try to post in a way that will help the person I am writing to as well as any lurkers following along. Schoolbus posts the same way. So do you.

Regards and salutations

Pep

Thanks Pepperband,

You're right- you and Schoolbus post in a way to help other people. I try to also.

A question- i noticed on the end of your posts, that you say something about 12 years of a happy marriage. Is that after d-day?

I am only one year post d-day, and am wondering how it feels to be post 12 years. Does the pain ever go away?????

Sunflower

It has for us
there are circumstances where it probably will not

D day was late December 12 years ago - recovery began right away


H is very committed to recovery and this committment began on day 1 - and not just lip service

Pep

Sooo - i dont want to pry- but how LONG until the pain goes away????

My H is also very committed to recovery, but it is taking me a long time to let him into my heart. i dont trust him yet, and the depth of the pain i felt after d-day, is sooo scary to me.

for example- we have not touched since d-day except for holding hands. sometimes - i'm not sure how happy i can be with him. will his presence always remind me of the pain i felt from his cheating?

do you have any suggestions to help me move towards less pain??

the pain is already 1,000 times less than it was. But the scope and length of his cheating was sooo long - 12 years- and with so many women. also 12- one was a very close friend and most of the others i knew and were friendly with also.

the sad part- is that he had more sex outside our marriage of 31 years, than in it!!! we didnt have much sex (once a year) while he was cheating, and before that - little kids at home decreased it and before that - 10 years of infertility killed our sex life.

Is there other stuff i should be doing???

Sunflower

S-55,

Thanks for the compliments (you too, Pep).

I thought I would check this thread out, and here you two are just having this chat.

I need a cup of tea, a spoon of sugar and a little honey to join in.


You ask about whether or not the pain goes away?

Yep. It does. My H cheated about 28 years ago, a ONS (actually, there were two of these early in the marriage).

I was angry, and wrecked our VW bus. Dragged the mailbox down the side of it, nice mark left behind.

But we moved forward. Agreed that an open marriage (something that was pretty "hot" at the time in 1979 or so, was not such a very grand idea. Too much pain, and no gain.

Especially when one of us didn't know the marriage was open......

or agree to it.


Did the pain go away? Yes, it did. I confronted this OW one night, when she actually came back to see my H when he was performing in a night club in San Diego. She thought she could sidle up beside him and get back in his good graces. Didn't expect his wife and child to be there. I asked her to step into the lobby - and with my H onstage, able to see us through a glass panel - proceeded to challenge her right then and there. I was holding my young child in my arms, and I was absolutely pi$$ed that she showed up.

I've never told this story before.

Anyway, I stood in that lobby with my H onstage watching us through the glass - but he couldn't hear what was being said, as he was playing loud rock and roll at the time in the other part of the club. The OW said "I just want to be his friend" and I told her that he had enough friends, and she was NOT one of them. She said, "Can't I just come and listen to the music???" And I told her, "You will be hearing music alright, if I ever see you with him again - you will be hearing HARP music because I will kill you and you will be dead in heaven."

She said she didn't want to leave the club. I told her that if she didn't leave, that would mean I would see her face again, and that if I saw her face again it would mean I would need to spread her dirty carcass from California to New York - and the mess left behind would need a he// of a clean up crew.

She said I was crazy.

I said "Yes, I am crazy. But I am holding something worth fighting for, MY CHILD, MY FAMILY. You need to leave, because I am standing here telling you to walk out the door, because I will fight for my family. Walk out now, and do not look back, and do not come back. Not ever."

She left, and didn't look back.

She never came to any of his gigs again.


We recovered quite nicely, thank you.


Up until the point where he recently lost his mind, of course!


But we are back on track. I consider that ONS so very long ago, and I don't know........it is so far back there. When the new affair happened, yes, the pain came back up of course. But it was gone, long gone. And now, it is gone again.


So I do know that it goes away.


SB

SB and Pep-

Does the pain go away because you work to keep the affairs out of your mind??

What do you do with the thoughts when the pop up?

Can you think about the affairs and not have pain now? do you tell yourself the reason why your H had the affairs to take away the pain??

Two of his OW i must still see in my town. One of them is my daughter's (age 11) best friend's mother. So - she is at all school functions. We/I manage to avoid her when droppping my daughter at her house, but it is painful just looking at her house and walking up her steps. Knowing how many times my H snuck into and out of that house.

The other one was my close friend and is invited to all my friends' weddings- also at school functions because her daughter is in the same school. I ran into her last week at a local store.

so these meetings, have caused me great pain in the past, and the pain lessens, but it seems to re-open the wound.

pls dont suggest to move. our therapist has told us many times. we both have elderly parents who we cant move away from, and i have a longstanding job that i am close to retirement from.

anyway- it seems that whenever something comes up with my H, the original hurt comes back.

i do know that the pain is MUCH less.

oh and btw- we confronted these two OW the night he told me about them in person in their bedrooms!

SF

I don't know how much this is going to help you , but in the spirit of this thread....

"The first step is to ACCEPT THE TRUTH" .... here goes

In my opinion as long as you live in proximity of OW(s) and you catch a glimpse of OW(s), your pain will not go away, as mine has.

lessened - probably
but not go away

and you should ever be wary if one of the OW(s) ever gives your H a female "look"

it is not smart to turn your back on the ocean - or OW if she lives in your town

this:





makes me wonder ... and I want to yell at you

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ?

that's not recovery
that's picking at your wound with a chain saw !!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The first step is to ACCEPT THE TRUTH"

The truth is - your daughter must not be allowed to go there - and the other girl must not be allowed in your home.

My opinion - this is NUTZ.





Pep

because OW is still a part of your lives

he's still tainted with her scent

Pep- i know that every word you say is true.

Here is where i am stuck. Maybe you can help me.

I dont want my daughter to know about the affairs- so when she asks me why she cant play with her best friend.... what do i say???????

this is what i have done and where it has led me-

-asked her if she could play with someone else- this works sometimes and thank God, she has developed some new friendships, but she still counts the daughter as one of her best friends.

- when she asks me why i am no longer friends with the OW -mother- i say that she is not the kind of person i want to be friends with anymore. she asks why- (she's really smart) and i say its adult business.

(originally she was IN the house when we confronted this OW playing downstairs. she saw my face. i told her that the OW had invited daddy to go somewhere without me, and i was very upset.)

anyway - heres the part- she says - "MOMMY - YOU HAVE TAUGHT ME THAT I SHOULD ALWAYS FORGIVE PEOPLE WHEN THEY DO WRONG THINGS SO WHY CANT YOU FORGIVE "AMY"??"

i say that i have forgiven her- but she is not the kind of person i want in my life- just like she has some people as friends and others not. she looks straight at me in the eyes and says "i know you have not forgiven her".

is this God talking to me through my child???

to her i am MEAN MOMMY.

in my heart - i am at a totally different place with the OWomen than i was a year ago.

for the first 8 months - i wrote the ones i knew well (2) monthly disgusting letters- telling them what i knew, what sluts they were, describing the sex they ahd and where, telling them how great things were with my H and how happy i was and how pathetic they were, and hitting them in their most vulnerable spots.

one woman - i only wrote her one letter because i didnt know her well- took me to court for harassment. it was settled in court-( thank God i have a very close friend who is a lawyer) when i signed a paper saying i and anyone in my family would have no contact of any kind with her.

anyway- the point of all this is.... i have moved past hating and blaming the OW. i cant say for sure if i forgive them.

they NEVER apologized to me and they could have easily done it through e mail- how non-threatening is that- but i know they are all the same!!! how interesting that they all acted the same way!

SO NOW I REALIZE:

- THEY didnt make a vow to love, honor and protect me and be faithful- MY HUSBAND DID.
it was just so much easier to blame them- instead of looking at the person i loved most who did this to me- HIM.

- they did not have the affairs with my H to hurt me. they are sick and broken people , just like my H was.

One thing i have a hard time moving past is the "emotional abuse" they put me through. My close friend would call me often to ask about my marriage and listen to me cry. this must have made her so happy- as she was f******* my H.

also -w e were couple friends with 2 and did family things often. i had them often to my house for meals and us to them.

my H went on an outing with our kids and hers one day when i had to work. this one bothers me alot. HOW TRUSTING AND STUPID I WAS!!!!!!!

anyway- i have digressed. so PEP- what do i say to my beautiful, smart, perceptive daughter??????????????

SF

"Daddy has something to tell you"

this is why you are not warming up to H - you're still covering up his mess

sorry - my opinion is

H should tell DD11 why OW is not allowed in your life - not you

Pep

BTW

everytime you turn this discussion in the direction of "why can't I forgive OW" it is a wrong turn and a dead end

the real problem is "Why can't I make love with my husband?"

forgiving OW does not mean you allow OW's ugly heart and her ugly influence around your beautiful daughter

if you had an affair - would you think it reasonable to send your DD11 over to OM's house to spend time?


Pep

your husband does the crime and you do the time

:crosseyedcrazy: :twobyfour:

you might just explode from resentment someday - find the truth valve and release this resentment

Pep

do you REALLY think that telling my 11 year old will help her or ruin her????????????

i think it would affect her for the rest of her life- possibly so that she would choose to marry a man who cheats, or become a cheater herself. this is what many books say.

my motherly instinct is to PROTECT her from hurt.

what does she have to gain by him telling her and hurting her more???


also - igree that i s houldnt be worrying about forgiving the OW, but on the other hand ... carrying around resentment hurts ME!!! so i forgive for MYSELF.

also- i am trying to figure out how to become intimate again with my H.

it is a long process.

but i cant understand why my DD needs to know.

SF

OK- i totally agree but i am trapped with what to do.

all through our initial discovery months, when i was non-stop crying, hurt, mean to my H, couldnt look at him,

my DD said WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN TO DADDY????

I said that daddy had done some things that really hurt me, and that i needed to be angry and upset for awhile.

there was no buying it for her. she actually began calling me "MEAN MOMMY".

she only saw mommy being mean and daddy being so kind to me.

our therapist said that we should not show her some things and jsut tell her that some things are for adults only.

i would cut off my arm to save her any upset....so i can suffer to protect her mental state.

anway -we are past this stage. i am no longer bleeding everyday.

i am finding myself and so much happier.

just missing that ONE large piece....

SF

your husband is not protecting you from fallout of his sin

tell him what protection you need

my guess is - he'll do it

Pep

so .. do i tell him that i need him to tell her the truth????

or do i just describe the situation and leave it up to him???

wont telling her DAMAGE her in some way?????

SF

Would you say your relationship with your daughter has been damaged by your husband's actions?

She thinks you're a heartless monster. How is telling her the truth going to make that worse?

Maybe worse for your husband, for a while, but your DD should not think he is wonderful at your expense, when all this is HIS FAULT.