Cindy McCain wasn't a "dirtbag" UNTIL she followed her father's example and became an unrepentant adulterer in a continuing affairage. Her father's adultery and her being an OC resulted in her being raised in a sick environment. Unfortunately, she didn't overcome it. It explains it...doesn't excuse it.

She HAD choices...she made her own bed. There's no denying here on MB what she is today.

Obama wants to institute programs that reduce the number of abortions in this country...stuff like support for teen mothers, contraception alternatives, etc.. As the President he is charged with enforcing the laws...and the law, thanks to the Republican controlled Supreme Court REMAINS that abortion IS legal in this country.

I also wanted to note the flaw in your logic that Democrats support for abortion is partially motivated by a desire to genocidally eliminate inner city blacks. Well, that's just counterintuitive. Since blacks constitute a large democrat voting block you'd think they'd want MORE black children that could grow up and vote Democrat. On the contrary, I believe it's actually Republican racism that motivates them to SAY they care about abortion, steal Christian votes via Reagan style with FALSE promises to do something about it and THEN, due to racist underpinnings, choose to do nothing (or actually the opposite and nominate/appoint pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court). I like your attempt at "the best defense is a good offense" approach. Fortunately, the American black voter has not been fooled by such. They know which party favors their interests over the corporate interests. Reagan/Bush Presidencies decimated our country's inner-cities, Clinton pulled them back and now GB, the sequel, has put them in shambles once again. In Detroit this is poignantly obvious.

In addition, you can't point the "child murderer" finger at me without pointing it at Republicans as well. If you voted for Nixon, Reagan, GB, Sr. or, we have yet to see, GB, Jr. (since I don't think his appointees have really addressed the issue or voted as you say, pro-choice YET) then you too have this so-called blood on your hands as well. There's blood on both sides of the aisle. Perhaps NOT voting and advocating NOT voting is the only way to stay clean of this mess. Seems much better than advocating supporting a known unrepentant adulterer that we KNOW is a foggy LIAR (just watch ...he's quite likely to select a pro-choice running mate).

Got a deal for ya...how about we agree if you don't vote...I won't either. We'll off-set each other and it saves us each a trip to the rigged Diebold voting booths. As a bonus...neither of us will get blood on our hands.

Mr. Wondering

You go, boy!

TELL IT!!!

So sad but so true!

Charlotte

You have got this lawyer speak down pat. Throw mud on the wall and see what sticks. The republicans control the SC. Laughable. YOU know...at least I hope you do since you do work in the legal field..that justices change their voting patterns at times. Souter is an example of this. IF he remained conservative...as he was...abortion would already be illegal. I already pointed this out to you and you conveniently ignored that posting. YOU know you are shoveling it...but what else can you do when Obama is your man.

Even Ginsburg (in a dissent opinion)last year admitted that the conservative additions to the court are chipping away at the 1973 ruling.

Obama wants to limit the number of abortions...are you friggin kidding me. Yeah, that's not a political ploy to bookend his "I never heard the Reverend Racist make those comments" platform.

I do point the finger at you and any one else that supports slaughtering children. The republicans HAVE done things about it(even your own party platform suggests just that...as do the members of the court) and have had to work with the butchers in charge of the democratic party.

Your arguments have no foundation in reality and are nothing more than spin. Law school 101....Johnny Cochran would be proud.


http://www.blackgenocide.org/who.html

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/creech/050221

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=68556


I guess I must go to the wrong church. I am wondering...what Christian Church is it that teaches their flock that it is okay to kill unborn children?

Why would he want to reduce abortion? Is there something wrong with abortion?

Straight from the platform....Hmmm...Mr. W...this seems to throw a wrench into your argument about the republicans not doing anything about a woman's right to murder...

Supporting the right to choose to kill a baby baffles me. For those of you that support terminating a baby or vote for people you know do, why?

Can you answer the question Obama didn't? When does a baby's life count?

With 3D ultrasound parents have the opportunity to view in detail the miracle of life as a baby grows in the protection of the mother’s womb. If it is just tissue, view the thousands of images available or better yet, view the baby growing inside you or your wife and tell me you are at peace with sucking it's brains out to make sure the individual is dead when the entire body is finally removed.

Yes, I would say there is something terribly wrong with the right to choose to kill your baby.

http://pregnancy.about.com/od/pregn...oto-Gallery/3D-Ultrasound---29-Weeks.htm

I don't know why I'm sticking a toe in this but here goes:

Because you are looking at it through your eyes only. Think about looking at it through the eyes of a young female who is terrified at the prospect of having a baby. Afraid to tell anyone. Maybe her boyfriend is abusive. Maybe he's threatened her to get rid of it. At any rate, she decides to terminate her pregnancy.

Okay, say she waited too long and ends up carrying the baby to term. Perhaps she is trying to tell herself it isn't true. So she has the baby and then tries to hide it somewhere instead of taking it to a church or a hospital. Because she is afraid of being discovered. So we have a dead baby.

This is happening more and more often even without the changing of the law. How many babies do you think are in our landfills that were born and hidden from others? Scary.

I know 2 people who had their unplanned pregnancies. One was a teenager I went to school with. She was tall and big-boned. I had NO idea she was pregnant. She hid it well. Even from her mother. Until her mother discovered her in the bathroom giving birth.

Another girl was the daughter of a former boss. She told no one of her pregnancy. She left the baby on the side of the road in a plastic bag. Because fire ants chewed through the bag, the baby did not suffocate. A miracle. The girl got in a lot of trouble, I can't remember if she got jail time but her parental rights were terminated, obviously.

Two examples here and this is in a town of a little over 5,000 people.

No one is EVER going to agree on this subject but if abortion is ever outlawed in this country it will be a dark day indeed.

Charlotte

A dark day for whom? The baby? Or for the irresponsible, selfish females who believe their personal convenience trumps the life of another?

Personally, I am pro-CHOICE. I even like parroting that word, it puts me into a trance: choicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoice! Just call me a choice monkey! I love choices! Choices love me!

I love choices so much I say we be a choicemonkey and extend that choice to the one whose life is up for grabs? If its ME, I would like to have the CHOICE if it is MY LIFE. Let ME make that choice!

So, how about we strive to be real choice monkeys and spread CHOICE around? Can we have CHOICE for ALL and not just a FEW special ones?


choicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoicechoice :crosseyedcrazy: sorry, got a little excited there - don't mind the white froth!

Both. There will be more dead babies in dumpsters and there will also be more dead females who go back to the ol' coathanger method.

I don't think all the women who choose abortions are being selfish. They made a foolish choice in the first place to have unprotected sex.

This is what needs to be harped in in this country. Abstinence is a nice theory but the reality is that people are going to have sex. So let's promote birth control! Then we don't have to worry about abortions!

I guess my whole point is I feel the lesser of two evils is abortion when the alternative is carrying the baby to term and leaving him/her out in the elements to die or throwing the baby in a dumpster to suffocate and become a meal for rodents.

And since I stuck my toe in I may as well say that I think the argument of abortion being used to eliminate or reduce the population of certain races is ludicrous.

Charlotte

Can you name a single documented case of a "coathanger" death from an abortion? One citation? Pro abortion people have talked about this ALL MY LIFE but have yet to produce an example. I would like to see that.

And there are already are dead babies in dumpsters, millions of them. At the hand of females. That is where they are dumped after they are ripped apart and aborted. I don't believe they had a CHOICE. On the other hand, a female who sticks a coathanger in her vagina made that choice and took that risk. if she is not a big enough girl to take accountability for that choice, then she shouldn't do it. period.


Anyone who kills another human out of convenience is worse than selfish. I can think of much more accurate terms and I bet everyone else can too if they are honest.


It is a documented FACT that eugenicist, Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, began the abortion movement in this country in order to weed out blacks and other "weeds" in the "garden." Sanger called blacks and immigrants: "...human weeds,' 'reckless breeders,' 'spawning... human beings who never should have been born." Margaret Sanger, in Pivot of Civilization.

She also believed in and endorsed adultery, and was an adultress herself. She had an affair with a fellow eugenicist and left her husband.

The bottom line is that if choice is so cute to say and all, then why not extend it to all? If it is me being considered for abortion, MY CHOICE IS NO! So don't get me wrong, I am ALL ABOUT choice! But choice for ALL. Not just a select FEW. Lets extend that choice to the one whose life is up for grabs.

Hitler was another famous eugenicist:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

eu·gen·ics /yuˈdʒɛnɪks/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[yoo-jen-iks] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (used with a singular verb) the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, esp. by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1880–85; see eugenic, -ics]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

I don't know anything about Margaret Sanger. I know a little about Planned Parenthood and the organization itself is not just an "abortion factory" as some believe. They offer health care for women as well as many other alternatives for women who are pregnant and turn to them.

Yeah, I know that there are dead "babies" or "fetuses" or "collections of cells," depending on who you ask, in the garbage because of abortions. And there are many more that we know nothing about because their presence wasn't detected. The ones who were full-term and thrown out.

My point is that I believe that the lesser of two evils is an abortion, rather than carrying a baby to term and then killing him/her or abandoning him/her to die. (same thing)

That's not even factoring in everything else about unprotected sex, etc. into the equation. If it's abortion vs. having a full-term infant and doing away with him/her, then I have to choose abortion every time. I just don't see any way around this.

Charlotte

Yeah, I know. And Obama is Hitler. And McCain is an adulterous freak. And I am very likely NOT to vote this year.

But you are making a "CHOICE" for someone else. Its not your life up for grabs. Thats real easy to say when its not your head on the chopping block. You were allowed to be born. That CHOICE should not be denied the one whose life is up for grabs. That makes no sense if we are going to be choice monkeys. Everyone should get CHOICE, not just a select few.

Killing an innocent baby is evil, whether it is full term or half term. I do see a way around this, and that is to OUTLAW abortion and put those who participate in the killing of innocent unborn where they belong: IN JAIL.

Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill and is the largest abortion provider in the world. I can't see any "good" in that. They are human butcher shops.

huh? You do know that Adolf Hitler and Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, were well known eugenicists, right? Neither one hid this fact and their views on eugenics were well documented in their own publications.

No. I don't see it as me making a choice for anyone.

If abortion is outlawed there will be more dead babies. Babies that took a breath outside their mother's womb and were then left to die. That's far more horrid than an abortion in my book.

And I disagree about Planned Parenthood. They are not just "abortion mills." That is just so not true.

The best thing is to promote birth control. That way we don't have to worry about abortions.

Outlawing abortion won't do a dang bit of good.

Charlotte

I don't know anything about Margaret Sanger. I know plenty about Adolf Hitler. My grandfather was in WWII so I know everything I need to know and then some. And everything I don't need to know as well.

How do you feel about these women that “do away” with babies? Is that where your sympathies lie? What about the miracle baby saved by ants? Is he or she a doctor now saving lives? A teacher, mother, democrat?

Your preferred option would have never given this miracle a chance. People make bad choices but worse choices don’t solve the problem. My wife is the result of a bad choice. She is adopted and I thank God her Mother didn’t feel killing her baby was the better of two evils.

I would have expected the rape or incest argument common to abortion fans. The strategy that tugs on emotions dealing with the most horrifying situations that account for what percent of overall abortions in order to justify the convenience abortions that account for the overwhelming number?

The reason to support abortion is because women would murder their babies after they delivered them so let’s make sure abortion is legal so they can murder them before they deliver?

For once I would appreciate an honest debate dealing with the overwhelming percentage of abortions performed. Are the abortions on demand OK too because the timing is inconvenient?

To state that the minute percentage of potential scenarios involving careless, murderous women that terminate their delivered babies are evil and the lesser of two evils is allowing not only those extreme scenarios but also the overwhelming majority of “on demand” abortions is justified is puzzling logic.

Again I ask, at what point does the life of a child count?

And it is pointless to even continue going back and forth about it, IMHO.

You feel the way you feel about it.

I feel the way I feel.

This is why I don't like to get into these discussions. It doesn't make one bit of difference how either one of us feels, really. It's not going to change anything.

Or we can argue until one of us gets mad at the other or vice versa or both. I don't think that's productive, either.

Charlotte