You don't have to do anything.
You can remain right where you are.
I'm suggesting there is a reason (and a good one) that you do not connect sexually (ergo emotionally) with your husband.

If you don't mind remaining the mean mommie - there is not a problem for you.

Just because I think this undermines your parental position does not mean my opinion is correct.
Pep

Article from this website:

Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn

Sunflower

You're right - the knowledge of this situation will disturb and trouble your daughter. The memory will probably be permanent.

However, how much damage is being done right now by the situation your family is in? How much is your daughter picking up on the disconnect between her parents, how much is she sensing your tension whenever she's around her best friend, how confused is she by the emotional undercurrents that she can detect, but which she's effectively being told are not there?

To believe your daughter is oblivious to all this is, I suspect, wishful thinking.

Your choice is not to disturb her / not disturb her. She's going to be affected either way. Your choice is whether you allow her to make sense of her life, or go into adulthood unsure of her own judgement and perception.

There are worse things in life than watching your parents strive to recover a wounded marriage, don't you think? Better than watching your parents demonstrate that love and commitment involve coldness, lack of emotional engagement and fear.

TA

S-55,

Let's say you never tell your DD 11. Fine. Your choice, and I won't weigh in on that.

I will, however, weigh in on the explanation problem about why you should not allow her over the OW's house, and how to explain it, and the "you haven't forgiven her" issue.

Here is what *I* would say:


DD, I have made an adult decision to not allow you to go over to OW's house and play with her daughter. It was a hard decision for me, and has absolutely nothing to do with her daughter at all. In fact, I think her daughter is a wonderful girl.

But you already know that OW and I have had some problems that are adult problems, and I have made the decision that our families need to be separated. While I have forgiven her, sometimes forgiving does not include continuation of a relationship.

In this case, my relationship with OW can never continue. She and I will never be friends again, and your father will never be friends again with their family either. Unfortunately this is the way things must work sometimes in the world in order to protect families.

There cannot be any argument about this. I understand that you do not feel this is fair. The hardest thing about all of this is that I also feel it isn't fair, and that my heart is also broken about it. I will be here to help you through it, if you need help. I need you to know that this was a grown-up decision, and that you and your friend did nothing wrong. Adults sometimes have to do hard things to make things right, and this is one of those times.

I hope I can show you how to handle a very difficult time by my demonstration of honor in this. Someday, maybe when you are older, we can talk again about this time and you and I can discuss how this whole decision was made and why. For now, trust and know it is the right thing to do for our family.




That's how I would approach it. Whether she knows "why" or not, I would say the exact same thing.

SB

Regarding the pain issue?

There are times when I think about the affairs from a long time ago and there is no pain.


But sometimes, if I think about them in the context of the more recent affair, I do have some pain, because I am able to bring back the memories of the pain I felt then due to the recency of the affair now. I guess I pull in the pain of the most recent affair, and use it to help remember that pain from long ago.

Make any sense?

I suppose that if I were to focus hard enough, I can tell you intellectually that I felt pain back then. Of course I did. But I would have to work to actually FEEL it now, because I really have moved past it from those early affairs. Any "pain" I have now from those long ago affairs really is kind of empathy-driven from the more current one.



And regarding the OW living in your town, not being able to move due to elderly parents. Hey lady, ME TOO.

I had what we refer to as "sightings" recently. While I thought I was gaining so much ground, it did set me back a bit. We had gone out to eat, and endured dinner at a place while the OW sat at the bar hitting on her latest conquest (she is still cheating on her H, only this is a new OM - she's a swinger, player, whatever you want to call it). That was TENSE. I know the feeling.

But I tend to deal with it with humor. I made fun of her make-up (she looked like a total clown) and her body (droopy ta-tas) and clothes, and butt, and whatever. My H could not believe he thought that was sexy at any time in his life he must have been nuts and we ended up fine after we had time to work it through.

This will get better after sightings, I think, and we work it through. It will be my life, and I know it, and I have to accept the truth of my life. She exists and will cross my path. It does NOT mean I have to reduce into a bowl of jello and lose ground in recovery because I saw her - does it? NO! I mean, I can think about her, see her, and in the end, I make the decision about my reactions. I CHOOSE, I AM IN CONTROL, AND I AM MAKING THE CHOICE TO REMAIN STEADFAST AND ON THE PATH TOWARD MY GOAL.

I choose for her to be what she actually is. I have recognized what she actually is, and you said it best - you said "accept the truth".

Look at the OW in your case. What is the truth about her? Look at the TRUTH, and you are likely to find a broken person who is weak and pathetic and lost.

Of low moral character.

Searching for some self-esteem in the pants of a man.

Seeking something she will not find, because she probably does not even know what she is looking for, doesn't know what she wants, and lives day-to-day wondering if someone else can or ever will fill that void inside of her that she desperately tries to satiate.

She looks outside of herself for something she already owns.



When you realize the truth about the OW, you realize she is not your problem. She is her own problem.


And she is not so scary. In fact, you realize that if anyone is broken and needs forgiveness, it is likely the OW. So you forgive, and you leave her in your past.


If you see her, your first thought is "PITY. SHE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEONE WORTHWHILE."

And your fears are gone.


Hope this helps.

SB

Thanks for all the responses.

Pep- you totally opened MY eyes to the truth ...that my H was/is NOT protecting me.. letting me take the heat for his sins.

He and i had a long talk about that tonight. when i brought up the example of if i cheated, would he go to that OM's house? - it was perfect . He got it and said NO WAY.

interesting and eye opening - that he stil has the tendency to be selfish and not think about my feelings/

i think my thinking was clouded on this issue because it had my DD's feelings and future involved...so i was figuring that i could suffer to protect her.

THANKS TO YOU ALL SHOWING ME THE TRUTH.

MY fwh should be the one suffering - not me.

SB- your response sounded perfect to me- except i think my H should say those words to my daughter.

i printed it out and we read it together. he OFFERED that he would be the one to say those things to my DD.

the reason this is so timely.. my DD's best friend just came home from camp today and has called my D twice today. i am sure there is a play date in the future.

i feel perfectly OK with dropping at her dad;s house. The OW and her H have divorced during the affair with my H. the OW's H never knew about the A. I never felt responsible to tell him since they were already divorced when i found out.

anyway - that will be our stance - that i can drop her to play only at her friend's dad's house.

i could also offer taht she could play here. i feel a little uncomfortable around the girl, but no pain. Just weird.

interesting to note that the OW seemed to enjoy having my DD at her house. she even questioned her a few times about her "family" and how we were all doing..

when she has seen my two sons- ages 19- she always makes a point to say hello (post d-day). even if they are just across the street- nowhere near her. My sons know about her and of course, this would make them uncomfortable.

one of my sons would not even respond, but she doesnt say hello to him - only to the quiet one - who just holds everything in.

HOW LOW WILL A PERSON SINK TO USE CHILDREN FOR THEIR OWN SATISFACTION????

anyway- you all helped me soooo much - THANK YOU.

i'll let you all know how it goes.

it seems when i cant see clearly - you "masters" steer me in the right direction.

SF

SB - about PAIN.

THANK YOU AGAIN.

i knew what you said about the women being broken, with no self esteem, but you made it so clear. your statements of what to say to myself were perfect- "SHE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEONE WORTHWHILE."

The pain certainly gets less, when i know what a sad pathetic life they have.

also- everytime i see one since D-day- it gets easier. the first few sightings took my breath away and sent me into a downward spiral for days.

now - i only feel mildly uncomfortable and upset.

unfortunatley - there are 4 living in my town.

the pain also gets less, the closer i feel with my H, and the stronger we get together.

HERE'S TO A PAIN-FREE LIFE!!!

sf

this questioning is totally expected of OW - not just this one, any of them would if they had the opportunity - they get to rationalize to themselves:

"What I did was wrong, but it's OK now. Their family is back to normal"

or

Maybe DD11 said "Mommie is so mean sometimes."

and OW gets to feel less guilty because YOU are "so mean".

this is revolting

and how do you know OW is not planting "so mean" into DD11's head?????????

OW are like the ocean - never turn your back on one (she has not apologized - she's still OW)

Pep

Pep-

i agree it is revolting, but i dont agree with the reason she would question my DD.

i think it is because she wants to know how the marriage is, and if there is any chance of a divorce or seperation. she feels absolutely NO GUILT and never has.

she is the same as the other 11, who have never felt guilt, because if they did - how could they see me day after day while the A was going on, and ACT NORMAL??

how could she/ they spend time with me and in my house and act normal??

i dont want to get off on this tangent- but i think that people who cheat are a different kind of person. i dont agree with Harley that everybody would cheat if the circumstances were right. i know in my deepest heart, that i wouldnt.

people who cheat must be broken- feel worthless and empty inside.

they must also be selfish- to not care about their partner's feelings.

i AM saying that these character flaws can be changed and that cheating seems to be the catalyst for my H to change.

so....if he DOES change- maybe it will be worth going through this.

for sure - i know that it has been worth it, because i NEVER would have had the impetus to change. i had to be shocked into reality.

anyway- i liked the analogy of the ocean. and that she is still the OW until she apologizes.

for any OW out there - if you are reading this...WHY DONT YOU APOLOGIZE TO THE BS??? WOULDNT IT MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER?

i dont get why none of the OW have - oh yes- just remembered.

ONE of them who we confronted in person with her newly married husband and get this- SHE INVITED ME AND MY H TO HER HUSBAND WHILE THE AFFAIR WAS GOING ON!!!!!!OMG. when i got the invite- i asked my H who it was and my H - said - oh just some woman he knows from exercising -(this seems to be a big pick up place for cheaters) and that i should just throw the invite away.

but i ask- i need to send a gift even if we dont go and he says NO- dont send any gift. so i didnt- how weird and warped is this woman to want the man she is F******* at her wedding!!

i heard she roped the guy into marrying her because she got pregnant. amybe she was trying to do that with my H, but too bad he couldnt. really lucky for me.

anyway - when the 4 of us were in her living room and first my H told her that he had told me everything and that he told me because he loved me and was sorry for spending any time with her at all, and then he apologized to her H; then i had my turn- i told her what i thought of her- and it wasnt pretty. when i was done, she apologized.

somehow - it doesnt seem like a great apology because i arranged the meeting at her house. she didnt call me or e mail me or write me with her own motivation.

also - One OW, i didnt know - he met her at his professional conferences -and- i sent her 3 e amils telling her what i thought of her =- after the NC letter from my H and a call also from my H on speakerphone- and she never responded.

so finally i send her an e mail with the word ADULTERESS in the subject line and nothing else. so she finally e mails me back...i'm sure because she is afraid of me doing something more to expose her- and she writes;

"I'M SORRY. IF THERE IS ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP, PLS CALL ME LATER".

I e mailed her back that the only thing i was looking for was her first TWO WORDS. and that was the end.

but again- i pursued her.

oh yeah- i forgot - she had 3 kids and was married. one weekend when she was away at a conference which my H was NOT at. (after d-day), i called her H and told him. we spoke often for a few weeks after that but i never found out if they stayed married or not. it was her THIRD marriage and the H told me that she had accused HIM of cheating ... so who knows. they were in therapy.
i felt bad for the H, but maybe he was cheating or maybe it was her guilty conscience.

oh my- i have so many OW stories -that i have really digressed. sorry.

anyway- i have seen the light with the friend and my H will have the talk with the DD tonight.

i do want to strangle her for saying hello to my son.

SF

I don't know if this analogy makes sense to someone who has never surfed - but believe me - this is such a good analogy

something that can look relatively harmless can turn you upside down and force all the oxygen out of your lungs if you are not paying attention

sending your DD over there to play is putting your DD at the mercy of the ocean

get this OW out of your lives - she's toxic to your DD as well as to your marriage
<~~ big

Thanks for the Big Hug- Here is one right back at you-


and thanks again for opening my eyes to the truth.

she is toxic and my daughter has been walking into the lion's den going to her house.

i get it.

SF

and I'd like to point out that he cannot learn to be sensitive unless you guide him along - you need to communicate clearly to H what your needs are and what hurts your feelings

no more guesswork

if you ALLOW something to happen - you H will assume it's "OK" with you and does not bother you

H is only insensitive if he understands what hurts you and continues to hurt you anyway

You have a responsibility here as well

accepting responsibility = power to make a change

Pep

PS

once you are certain your H is looking out to protect you

he's once more going to look sexy in your eyes

so let me just be clear about this-

every time i would see this OW or have to drop my DD there, I told and showed him how upset i was- by crying or yelling.

but i never asked him to have talk with DD until last night.

after i express my upset and hurt, do i need to TELL HIM WHAT TO DO TO PROTECT ME?? or is he supposed to feel that he wants to protect me???

my H said last night - (i had told him that the people i am talking to on this web site had advised that he needed to protect me- and that i agreed) that the people i was talking to had "pumped me up".

this really pissed me off and i told him calmly that it was not true. you all had just shown me the truth.

he obviously felt threatened in some way -

anyway - how explicit do i need to be??

SF

PS - and i agree that once he acts protective of me - i will feel attracted to him again.

V E R Y

he's shown you he lacks an inate ability to recognize what you need (maleness has other strengths - this usually is not one of them)

ME ~~~> "pumping you up"

tell H I said this: "I am just trying to get you laid by your WIFE" (truth!)

I am trying to pump HIM up too

I have a 19 year old DD.

If I leave a note in the morning that says

"clean the house"

she'll pick up a dirty glass put it in the dishwasher and to her she has just "cleaned up"

I learned to leave a note with explicit tasks

example;
this morning I left a note
vacuum the family room - "all floor surfaces
wood tile and carpet"

because LAST time I was not specific and explicit - she only did the tile (the easy part)

it's a HUGE room BTW - <~~~ Pep = the REAL mean Mom

pep-

thanks for the laugh!!!!!!

i especially liked the "real mean mommy"!

i also liked the VERY SPECIFIC. OK - I WILL.

and that you are trying to get H laid!

believe me- HE has not been the one who is sex deprived for 12 years!!

i needed to smile,

SF

OK

My H had the talk with my DD last night while i was out.

she called me while shopping crying saying she wanted me to come home. i felt some momentary panic but told her i would be home when i was finished.

she was perfectly fine!!!

he used some of the ideas we talked about on this thread- SB's speech was perfect and he read it a few times before 'THE TALK".

she just had a few questions later - but not what i thought.

she asked what she was to do when her friend invited her over at her mom's house. i said - just tell her you cant play there anymore. she said- then her mom- will " not like our family anymore".

so i said- you can tell her whatever you feel comfortable saying. you could just turn the invite around and invite her to our house. she seemed ok with that.

it is so hard to see our whole family turned upside down..

i just have to remind myself that we are in the UP cycle.. that we are all healing.

SF

doesn't H look a lot more attractive to you today?

MEN PAY ATTENTION

you become irresistibly attractive to your wife when you become (quoting Dr Phil) her soft place to fall

SF - thank him in an unexpected way - a big juicy kiss and a butt slap (simultaneous)

and then look him straight in the eye and say

"I can appreciate and admire you a lot more when I am under your protection."

this is mutual filling of love banks

au contraire - your family has been upside down - this is putting all of you right side up!

when your DD starts to see loving actions and words between you and H - her world just got a TON better

make a real effort to go out of your way to love up your H for a week as a response to his bravery

later ... when something else comes up ... you ask him to do you a favor - he will JUMP at the chance

also ... start to tease him physically
pinch him
lick his ear :MrEEk:
stick out your tongue with a wink