Never in a million years did I EVER think I would be here - in a forum for people coping with and recovering from affairs. I'm sure no one else did either.

I'm sorry I just DON'T get it. The MINDSET of a WS... Can someone please help me understand it?

My short story: Married 15 years, husband had affair with co-worker, OW's H called to tell me about it. OWH works out of town a lot, they were going to her house to have "sexual relations", same story as all the others on this site, hundreds and hundreds of phone calls, emails, text messages, couldn't wait until the next time he could just hear her voice.

Lots of people at work knew, no one called me, it was condoned or other co-workers just didn't know what to do. The exposure brought shame, embarrassment and shocked him back into reality. NC since D-Day - a requirement for me to stay in the marriage.

The 1st few months lots of blaming me, then admitted it was totally his choice. He says it was a big mistake and he wants it to just go away.

I have cried or screamed every single day since March D-Day. I just don't understand it. I have read every book there is to read on Affairs now. I know it is an addiction, a fantasy life, a get-away from reality, someone else is meeting their needs, it was so important to get that need met that men and women will risk EVERYTHING to "feel good"

So many people hurt in the process, such a selfish thing to do.

Why do affairs happen so often? It's just hard to believe that so many people are willing to risk EVERYTHING for a self-esteem boost. My husbands exact words "I loved the way she made me feel, she worshipped the ground I walked on, she was always happy and positive, she gave me awesome compliments about my bedroom perfomance" - I may throw up now excuse me...

COME ON....this isn't REAL. WS's HAVE to know that this is a life with no problems, no stress, no kids, no homework, no bills, no in-laws, no college tuition, no death, no teenagers problems, no baseball, soccer or cheerleading practices to get to. A stress-free, care-free fantasy life. Certainly they see this???

I'm hurt, angry and insulted that she would smile to my face at my husbands job knowing she was sleeping with him the whole time. Boy, it sure makes you NEVER want to trust anyone again.

An affair is a cruel thing to do to your husband/wife and family. Some of these posts say healing time is 12-24 months - WOW. We had discussed "people who had affairs" so many times in the past - now I'm one of them. I was so niave and trusting.

Just trying to accept and learn from it and what a hard lesson it is. One minute I am fine and the next tears are flowing from a memory of an old conversation or event triggered.

I go from sad to mad to rage in 6.3 seconds flat.

Welcome to MB. So sorry you find yourself here. You're right about on schedule for the anger and rage. It DOES take a long time to recover. Has your husband answered ALL of your questions about the affair? Has he been willing to turn over all passwords, cell phone records, etc. to you? Is he an open book now?

Is he still working with OW? If so, there IS contact and you guys will never fully recover. As long as there is ANY type of contact, visual, etc. recovery isn't happening.

I've got to run but I'm sure some others will be along to tell you more about what Dr. Harley says about true recovery.

LynnLee,

I know exactly how you feel. I still can't believe it and it’s been 4 months for me. My situation was the same exact thing. Co-worker, a year, but no one knew about it at her office. My WW was the sweetest/religious woman in the world. I was very trusting. I read about the two year recovery and almost fainted at the thought. She wanted the same thing, “Lets just move forward!” You can’t just move forward and forget about it. It takes them about three months to realize they are a complete fool for falling into that mess. I then had an RA that lasted about a month and that did relieve some of the rage/hurt as I had a similar experience, but nowhere near as long as her A. I just couldn’t stomach going through this taking the entire hit, so now she has similar thoughts/images as I do.(Don’t do this! It just complicated everything more) We both understand the hurt the other is experiencing. I also recently moved out because we would spend way too much time rehashing the As. Now, I call her, come by the house at night, and we go on dates. We are also in MC and individual counseling. Basically we are starting the relationship completely over. The funny thing through all this is she has become the jealous one???!! “Who are you calling?” “Where were you last night?” Sometimes people just lose their mind. I’m just glad I kept myself in shape all the years and I am still relatively young. Good Luck!

LL,

Welcome. You seem to have a handle on A's. That's unfortunate, but it's a step in the process...one of many.

What you are feeling is NORMAL. Your emotions will be all over the place for some time. Go easy on yourself, realize that you have been through a real trauma. And it's going to take a lot of time for you to get back to feeling "normal". Yes, the scars will still be there and the thoughts won't be too far away. But you can get to a point where you are happy again and "stable", LOL.

Have you two really started R? Do you understand the condition of your M pre-A and how that contributed to this situation? Do you both know eachothers' ENs and how to meet them?

Is your H remorseful? Is he transparent? Is he willing to do whatever it takes to help you recover?

Lots of questions I know. But it helps us see where you are at.

Your personal healing will fall on your shoulders. It's not fair, but it's true. Your H will only be able to do so much to take away your pain. YOU are the one who will have to work through it. And this is a great place to do it.

Stick around, post, ask questions...

We'll be here.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement. I've only been about 2 months from d-day and 1 month from my WS establishing no contact. but the affair participants can't see the reality of what they are doing. They are so caught up in the surreal part of it where there ARE NO responsibilities.

Thanks to all for your posts. Let's see YES, my H is remorseful, willing to do whatever it takes to make the marriage work. And Yes, the M pre-A was not the greatest but I sure didn't think it was so bad that an A was possible. We went to counseling for about 2 months, then I went alone for a month, now we do not go at all.

I read the His Needs Her Needs Book. We did the questionarres, we now know each top 5 EN I was not meeting his top 2 EN but above and beyond the bottom 3 EN. He was not meeting my top 4. But I didn't go out and have an affair, I just lived without them being met. We are both working on meeting them now for one another. And we have had discussions about well, what happens NEXT time I don't meet your top need - what will you do?

He swares he will never cause this much pain to me again. But I am sorry I don't trust anyone right now, especially him. We are taking one night a week to go on a date. I am working off stress by talking with friends and going to the gym, taking care of myself. He can only handle so much with the guilt he feels I know.

I wonder about intimacy with him now. That was the number one EN I was not meeting often enough. I see images of them together and I start to cry and have to stop right there. He said his A started sexual then became emotional which is a little different than the normal pattern I read.

I've learned so much over the past few months. I never knew the devastating damage A's do. I hope and pray mine is one that can recover and be stronger, it's hard to imagine right now. The hurt and anger overwhelm me.

By the way the OW divorced her H, she thought mine would leave me and he didn't. She is younger than me by 13 years. My husband is successful, I bet she is disappointed - if I were her I would sure feel stupid.

It has been now 5 months, still seems like yesterday.

one of many excellent links

I'll try to dig up my favorite one

be back later ..... check this post later

Pep

"COME ON....this isn't REAL. WS's HAVE to know that this is a life with no problems, no stress, no kids, no homework, no bills, no in-laws, no college tuition, no death, no teenagers problems, no baseball, soccer or cheerleading practices to get to. A stress-free, care-free fantasy life. Certainly they see this???"

Here your own wisdom! Listen carefully to what you are saying!

This is so important. I would like to share YOUR OWN WISDOM with you here.

I am terribly sorry you are in this raging pain. It would be terrible.

What you are saying I think, correct me if I am wrong, is that in your marriage, your life is very stressful and busy:

1. My marriage in real life is busy
2. There are problems
3. There is stress
4. There are kids
5. There is kids homework and adults homework
6. There are bills
7. There are in-laws
8. There is baseball to be involved in and drag kids to
9. There is soccer to bring kids to
10. There is cheerleading practice to get to
11. There are teenagers problems
12. There is the reality of death

Now, what do you observe here????

I will make some observations as a woman, and a wife, who's husband never had an affair. I am just a human being giving an observation. That may help you.

I see that you have a very busy stressful life. You are saying, here, that this is NORMAL to have such a busy stressful expensive pressure filled life. I DISAGREE!

I believe you have chosen this lifestyle! It is busy, expensive, stressful and FILLED with responsibility for children, childrens lives, childrens benefit, etc.

I have a feeling you two dont have much time alone to be quiet and just love one another. How could you have time when you have all this going on?

Your lives sound like one big pressure cooker of stress. How can this be healthy? I believe with a life like this, you cannot keep your marriage affair proof. Because though it feels normal to you to live this way and have this busy lifestyle, yet, this lifestyle is NOT healthy. It is NOT happy. It is NOT affair proof. It is NOT addiction proof.

WITH SUCH A LIFESTYLE AS YOU HAVE CHOSEN, SPOUSES, OR ANY HUMAN BEING, WOULD WANT TO ESCAPE SOME WAY... SOME HOW, BUT THERE IS NO ESCAPING IT. THE ONLY ESCAPE IS DEATH.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Where is your life in all this stress?

2. Where is the wonderful three times a week lovemaking with you and your husband?

3. Where is the quiet haven in your home when your husband gets back there from work?

4. Where are the healthy meals and relaxing fires in the evening?

5. Where is that quiet glass of wine shared between you two?

6. Where are the rewards in life for which your husband has sacrificed his life working for??

7. What are the rewards to YOU for all YOUR hard work?

8. In your busy life, where are the breaks? Where are the vacations without the children? What happened to the romance?

9. Where is the passion in your marriage?

10. Where is your passion in your own life?

11. Where is the new learning opportunities with you and your husband?

12. Where is the mental health in your marriage?

13. Where is the peace and quiet in your marriage?

14. Where is the outright FUN in your marriage?

15. Is there FUN in your marriage without the kids?

16. Where is the respect between you and your husband?

17. When can your husband retire?

18. When will you and your husband start having FUN together?


OK, I am done! lol!.

I hope you can get something out of this. What I am saying in a nutshell is that it appears that you two, as a married couple, happened to get in the rut of extreme busyness and stress like many married people do......especially married people who have families. Then, with all this stress, and all this lack of precious TIME, how do you have any time at all for EACH OTHER to nurture each other and the marriage??

Why is your husband working so hard for? When can he retire? never? What has he got to look forward to? Is he happy with just you , the kids, and the busy... stressful... expensive... neverending task oriented life????

Let me make some assumptions. Take 'em or leave 'em!

I feel your husband feels your lifestyle YOU BOTH CHOSE is now a miserable lifestyle. He may feel trapped even if he cannot admit it to you due to his supporting a big family, sports, colleges, etc. The financial pressures never end. He may feel that he has no quiet, freedom, fun, laughter, or romance WITH YOU. He may wish for a simpler, more sane lifestyle that he had in the past. He may realize that though he helped create the lifestyle you both have chosen, he feels trapped in that impossible lifestyle and his youth is dissapearing as he is a human wallet trying to keep all these stressful balls in the air.

I have to lay this out to you since to prevent an affair, you have to help a husband want to come home, and to come home.... to you!

Well Lynn -- you are making the mistake of thinking he was CHOOSING between you and OW. He wasn't. He had BOTH.

Exactly,

One is REALITY, the other is FANTASY...Having that FANTASY can prove to be expensive....You lose everything..Your self-respect, others respect, dignity, life-long burden to carry, spouse, career, etc. Its just AWFUL and why all the years I would be so tempted, but I knew the sheet would hit the fan and my life would be over! I think my WW is experiencing all that now. When she confessed, all I said was "I'm glad it was you and not me!"

Good luck!

Dear LL,
I am sooo sorry you are here, but just know that you are in the right place. the people on these boards will help you SOOOO much - as they have helped me.

I was YOU one year ago. I was the screaming, crying out-of-control person. I so can feel everything that you say in your messages.

You seem to be right on track. Do not worry about the hurt emotions you have- THEY ARE NORMAL!!

if someone stabbed you in the chest, wouldnt you be gushing blood?? You H has stabbed you in the heart every time he had contact, sexual or not, with his OW.

Let yourself grieve for the death of the marriage you thought you had. SOMETHING BIG HAS DIED - AND IT IS YOUR DREAM OF HOW YOU THOUGHT YOUR LIFE WOULD BE.

You need to CRY- but not as a victim- cry as a person who sees your pain and wants to release it. Tell yourself that YOU are making yourself cry, and then bring all the pain to yourself in your thoughts. SOB and cry. YOu will feel emotional release and healing when you are done.

You may have to repeat this a few times- i did- until you start to feel better.

If you run from the pain and stuff it back inside- it will continue to haunt you and make you sick.

You seem like you are doing everything humanly possible to heal from this. THAT IS GREAT!!

YOu are so determined and right on track. Your perceptions tell me that you will make it and come out of this a much different person - more centered, more emotionally strong and more sure of yourself.

My d-day was a little over a year ago. My H had 12 affairs in 12 years and 3 were at work. all the people in his office knew about his affairs.

about sex- i am not too helpful here - because i am struggling with feeling attracted to my H also. i am working on getting the mental pictures of hime with the OW out of my head.

the more sure i am of his TOTAL CHARACTER TRANSFORMATION- the more i trust him.

it is not a straight uphill climb. you go up two steps and down one. dont worry. just stay the course.

focus on yourself and making yourself happy and complete.

the MB stuff is great. Have you read this book "How to heal a Painful Relationship" by Bill Ferguson? this book was life altering for me.

his basic premise to any healing is that the first step is to

ACCEPT THE TRUTH.

this is so hard because then you have to accept that the person you loved the most and trusted the most , hurt you the most.

but you must take this first step to move forward.

you are totally right- i think people who cheat are a different breed. they are more BROKEN inside than people like us, who are also suffering in marriages, but decide to remain true and honest.

i have learned so much this past year. i cant say yet that i am HAPPY that he had the As, but i can certainly see where i have benefited in so many ways.

I am more complete.
I am more centered.
I am happier about life and more hopeful for the future.
My H will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make the marriage work.
My H is no longer work obsessed.
My H no longer flirts with other women.
Our marriage finally has a chance to be the kind of marriage it could have been all along.

Just remember - God, or the Universe or Life, sent you this situation to teach you something. LEARN from it.

SF

LynnLee.

Stellakat just posted the most important piece of advice disguised as a questionnaire you are ever likely to get in your life. Well, if having a quality relationship with another human being is one of your needs.

No, not everyone in your situation has an affair. You didn't. But of those who do, some had opportunity and some made the opportunity. It is what it is.

You are not responsible for his choice. BUT, you are 50% to 100% responsible for the state of your marriage prior to his bad choice.

To answer your question, affairs are a cosmic joke. They are most often based on one of two factors, PEA poisoning or entitlement. Entitlement affairs are done by unrepentant jerks of either sex. PEA is the infatuation brain chemical that destroys judgement among other things. There are several threads on the subject.

It has taken me three years to finally reach the stage where I can look at my wife's affair with some level of objectivity.

I wish you well.

Larry

I don't think you ever answered this. Are they still working for the same company?

OK, so WHEN does this NEED TO KNOW end? Everytime I think I have asked enough questions regarding the DETAILS of the affair -something will trigger a memory or past conversation and I will then ask more questions. WHY CAN'T I LET IT GO? The need to know more details - it only hurts me. It's crazy I know. My WH is tired of answering questions. Why isn't him saying "I'm so sorry, I will spend the rest of my life making this up to you" enough???

Why can some people just FORGIVE and NEVER bring it up again? And why do others keep the questions going for months, even years. If I continue, I don't think he will be able to take it.

Would love some feedback.

LL,

I know you feel like you're crazy for needing to know everything about his A. But if that is in your personality then not knowing will drive you crazy. A lot of people have this need to know. They need to know what REALITY really was at the time.

Knowing all the facts can be very difficult. But wondering about them for years is NOT healthy either. I suggest writing down your questions and letting them sit for a few days, if after that time period you still feel that need, then ask them.

Some people may disagree, but it is a personal choice to hear every little detail.

I also recommend getting answers to your questions sooner rather than later. New details can set a BS back. Almost putting you into another D day.

I promise you there will come a time when you are done obsessing and wondering. It just takes time.

I think after about a year, I stopped asking those questions.

LL, read this. It might help you to understand your need to know.

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)
_________________________

Thank you so much for this letter MicheleG. The wording is perfect and exactly how I feel. I may just print it off and give it to my H.

He will answer questions I ask with a simple YES or No - but there is NO elaboration on anything, nothing is volunteered. He tells me as little as possible. Now let me be honest here, I also accept responsibility right after D-Day acting CRAZY when he would answer my questions....such as "YOU DID WHAT" "ARE YOU INSANE" "DIDN'T YOU THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES" so I understand MY reactions were not welcoming and sometimes now 5 months later I still cannot control my reactions to some of the details. The whole thing is just so out of character for him.

But the short reluctant answers sometimes too tell me he is hiding information and that sets me off with anger.

It just hurts...the bottom line is...it hurts and I am looking for it all to "make sense" when it makes no sense.

Maybe this will help....

Inside the Wayward Mind

Here's Josephs letter.

Josephs Letter

These links were huge in helping me better understand the mindset of a WS. It's as if he were a different person all together during this time. He did tell me that he would tell himself negative things about me to make what he was doing OK, justified. Now he says he just can't believe he did it.

I have to choose to move on, it's a choice. I have to choose to try to be happy and learn from this tragedy.

LL,

That's true...you do have to choose to move on. So it's good to know what lays ahead of you.

You will have good times and bad...the rollercoaster. At times you will be glad you stayed..others you'll wonder why you did.

R is a process that should be worked through. Don't try to avoid all the bad feelings...understand them, accept them, then try to let them go.

Make communication between you and your H a safe place. If he divulges information...thank him for his honesty. If you need to vent...come here.

Work on you. Work on the issues in your M that were a problem. Eliminate behaviors of yours that created stepping stones that led to this event.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Most days you won't feel any improvement...but there will be.

Read these posts. Understanding that EVERYTHING that you feel is NORMAL should put your mind at ease.

Would your WH post here?