It feels a little wrong to say this and I'm sure I'm probably breaking all sorts of code of ethics for recovery...but I think I may be able to articulate what I'm feeling!
I feel entitled. I feel badly saying it, but it's true. I feel like H messed with my head for an entire year (and who knows what residual damage I'll carry with me) and now it's my turn. Maybe just writing it down will help me to get it out of my system, but that's really what it is. It's like deep down inside (I'm ashamed to say...not very deep) I feel like he owes me something. And, if it's changing how he acts or adopting a few new habits, do I have this right to ask? I could not quite figure out what it was before but I had my 'aaahhhhaa' moment!

Hey there,

Welcome back!!

I think your feelings are ABSOLUTELY common for a BS in Recovery. I don't think that your "entitlement" to the things in your M that you have overlooked or settled with is unreasonable. I think that this has become a wake up call and it goes both ways. If there were things that he wanted from you that he sought out in the DRH and now gets from you, there is no reason why you can't take it up a notch too. I would focus on the ones that specifically relate to your EN since you have already identified quantifiably what you know are the top 5 and will fill your love bank.

Looking at the other men I think comes with the Recovery process as well. Your life has had an upset. You probably look at other women different too. Like, hmm..wonder if she has been a BS or an OW, etc. Just acknowledge and recognize the part it is in the process and stay true to your boundaries and ethics.

I wouldn't want my old M either. Why would any of us? Process this new discovery and find a way to discuss it with him. He's got momentum now for change (his job), slip in the change for a better M that helps BOTH of you. Because when you are happy, HE will be happy!

Fiori,
Thanks for the update.
I know exactly what you mean by looking at other men. I feel like my H opened the door for me to look. I think it is normal part of R. I started thinking about one person from my past and what might have been. I even looked up horoscope compatibility. I was disappointed to discover my H was not a match for me but that the other person was a great match for me. I don't believe this stuff but it shows how obsessive I got. I felt so guilty thinking about this other person. What I found was - with time I came to my senses and recognized it's part of R. I think for me it was a way to emotional detach from my H, not intentionally but from the hurt I had felt. I wanted to hold onto something that my H didn't have a part of.
Do you see changes in your H in trying to meet your needs? I don't think you are getting the same relationship prior to EA. Considering you both have had difficulty communicating I think you both did a great job at the beach. R is a process and you will go through different stages.

Have you guys done the Policy of Joint Agreement. I never did with my H. We did do the EN questionnaire and recently did it again because my needs have changed.

G

G,
I've never really taken the time to truely understand the POJA, but once I started seeing the letters I did a little research. Actually, we never did a formal one but I see that we have pretty much established one without really knowing what we did. If I'm correct, it's basically a set of guidlines (rules) that need to be followed in order for both marriage partners to feel satisfied. He does abide by this, to my knowledge. I'm aware of his location, he calls me if he misses the train and has to drive to work, if he's going to be late in the evening he calls, if there is any attempt by ow to contact him he will tell me...this is the kind of stuff we agreed to. And, there are some for me too. I have to be more understanding of the position he's in with work and NOT bust his chops if he's late. I have to allow for his lopsided work schedule until he's found another job. I try to not have every argument turn into a bash-fest of OW (something I seem to enjoy). I think, after the holiday's I will get a small part time job so that I can begin to develop some interests outside our marriage. This prospect frightens me a bit, as I've been out of the loop for so long. But, I miss people. My H is not a social person and would much prefer to stay in our home cocoon. I crave people. I love conversation with strangers...I love to watch people. But, I'm not willing to sacrifice my family time. So, the perfect job has to be out there so I can perk up ME> We'll see.

Ok, so I rambled a lot...did I answer your question?

I feel my H and I have done the same thing. We know (and discussed) what we expect from each other. Yesterday we were talking about our top needs. His have not changed but mine have.
I think getting a part-time job is a great idea. I was a stay-at-home mom and started working part-time. I didn't think I'd find a job where I could only work a couple of hours but I did. With every year I added on hours.
One of the problems in my early marriage was I did everything and I became resentful because I gave up a career and my H got to work and be with adults. I wouldn't have changed my decision - I loved being home with my kids. I wish I knew then about meeting EN. As a stay-at-home mom I felt better when I started a book club. I got to be around women(and some men) that were interested in the same thing I was and it took me out of the house for an evening. I'm like you - I enjoy people and my H is more reclusive. You're not a Gemini, are you?

Nope...both kids are but I'm a Virgo. H is too! I'm wondering what your compatability chart would say about that!

That's funny - my H is a Virgo too. Virgo's go with Capricorn, Taurus, Cancer, Scorpio. See Virgo/Virgo compatibility below:

Well ok then...
I'm not quite sure what to make of that except that we've been married for 18 years and have managed to do a decent job of it. I suppose that does not sound too bad, I think.

So, what you're telling me is that while I am out 'trolling' the neighborhood I should be looking for either a Capricorn, Taurus, Scorpio or Cancer??? Just kidding!!!

Don't you have ENOUGH trouble with just ONE MAN. I know I do.
:crosseyedcrazy:

Mogi

Oh Lord...I am amazed at people who have multiple marriages throughout their lives! This is like a full time job and I cannot imagine doing it over and over again. I think I will stick with the one I have and make it the best it can be.


By the way...any prayers would be greatly appreciated regarding H and his new job search. After vacation he's found a new sense of desire to reclaim his life and find a new profession that not only helps our cause by inspires him too. This could be good for us for more reasons than the obvious.

No major problem for me....but simply a thought about what happened tonight.
H has been very sweet and attentive lately. It's been refreshing. Tonight I needed to take our son to work to cover the final hour of another kid's 4 hour shift. H called to say he'd be 15/20 minutes late as he was stuck in traffic. No problem, I was prepared for this. He rarely drives in to work but went in late. But, I don't think he remembered that I had to take our son to work. I was a nervous wreck the entire time I was driving him as it was along the road H would be using to come home. I'm surprised I got there in one piece. I was too busy watching the two lanes of oncoming traffic to see if he was approaching home with dumpy red-head in his car. Now, she lives in another state and it's not likely this would be the scenario...but it was alive in my head. Then, I read the postings here by another who cannot 'connect with the hurt I caused' and it frightened me. Does H believe things like this person does? It's weird. I'm soooo confident about what he's doing and our progress and then these thoughts creep into my head. Paranoid -- I know. But, this is part of my life now. I, too, live in a very anxiety ridden world and doubt seriously that H really 'gets' that. Sad, but true. Well, I'll take a bubble bath now and try to shift my focus...something I could NOT have done three months ago. I'll talk to H when he and son get home and let him know the fear I had while driving. Tomorrow's a new day.

Again...We need prayers about him finding a new job asap!!

AAAAAHHHHHH!!!

Lat night really stunk. Nothing happened, I had no reason to panic. But, I did. Really, H did nothing at all to disturb or upset me but I freaked out. I tried to go to bed but there was this nagging feeling in my gut that kept me up all night. Finally, at around 2 I went downstairs (H was fixing stuff on computer)to get him. I explained to him that I was in distress (for no unknown reason) so he came up to lay with me and try to calm me down. I wasn't out of control, just having creepy dreams about OW. Well, the night is over and I happy for that. When he left for work he gave me a big hug and reassured me that we'd talk today. I'll be fine...just a bit tired.

Not long ago I remember we went to a new lawyer's office to update our wills. The office was near the gym and the OW. I actually trembled as we got closer. I did not want to see the gym or the OW. I didn't know what she looked like and I wanted to keep it that way. My H suggested we go the restaurant across the street. I thought it was insensitvie and reminded him - was he prepared to introduce me to his "friends" from the gym. He said he would gladly introduce me and I guess after he thought about how I'd feel, he said maybe it's best to go somewhere else. I think I was a little depressed that evening - mostly I didn't like having being put in that position. There will be panic moments and it's up to H on how he handles it. I'm glad you told him.

I am in a complete state of frustration right now. Nothing big and no new appearances by OW...
Yesterday H approached me about talking. He's not a real talker and for him to actually have huge conversations is rare. So, we sat outside while kids were occupied and he began to chat. There was on brief exchange at the beach and he wanted to make sure he had cleared everything up for me and that I was feeling ok about it. So, as always, the talk progressed from one thing to another. Then, the topic comes up about our inability to communicate with each other properly. Hmmmm...where have I heard this before? This was part of his initial platform to 'explain' why he got tagled with OW in the first place. Apparently she has skills like no other regarding communication and a special 'connection'. So, I started to get a little defensive. He questioned me as to why. I explained to him that it's hard for me to remain neutral during this conversation since he was pointing out something that he's already told me she was sooooooo great at and something he thinks I'm not. It's frustrating. I have never thought he's been willing to totally fill my needs. The one for romance is left behind all the time. But, I'm being realistic. Anyway...conversation, dinner with kids, light a fire in firepit with kids, roast marshmallow's....just basic family stuff. About 11:30 he comes to me and says "I just want to let you know that I'll be outside looking at meteor's in the back yard" "If you need me, I have my phone but I'll be outside a bit". I'm 1/2 asleep and say "ok, by...have fun". About 1:45 I hear a noise that wakes me. I look over, no H. I get up and look around the house. No H. I go out in the back yard, around the driveway, into the front yard. Surely I must have missed him upstairs. So, I go back upstairs and peak in the kids rooms, our room and the bathroom. No H. I am freaking out now internally. So, I go to the phone and give him a call, as he instructed. No answer. It goes right to tape. Just as I finish I see him walking up our street. Now, he's left his wallet, keys, computer and all stuff behind. I was furious. I told him he had no right to do that to me. I woke up and was in a full blown panic. First it was fear he was with her and then just plain fear. I'm curious why someone would be that cruel. A few times very early on in this escapade, I came downstairs or outside to find him 'sneaking' a call to OW. He showed me his call log and was irritated that I asked to see it. Too bad. But, we talked for another 1 1/2 hours. It's frustrating. I told him I needed for him to protect me from damage before it happens, not alwasys wait to do damage control. So, we changed some stuff. He acted like a little boy but has now said he's going to stay home always and not leave our property any time after midnight. You see, it's quite normal for him to be up late working. This is how his swinging fun times began...late at night on the phone. Anyway, he apologized for being insensitive. I'm not sure I buy it. He is acting a bit arrogant for me. Basically, he believes that because HE has decided to move on and move forward minus OW that I should simply jump on board. I should see the value in his actions and the strides he's made. I don't put any of this down, but really? Does he really think I'll forget this? And, does he really think there is no comparision that goes on between she and I? I'm getting off topic. No emergency, just a tired wife wishing her husband would act proactively and not reactively.

Is there a pay phone down the street?

My H told me similar things very early in one of our false recoveries about the connection he had with the other woman...one he didn't feel with me...I reacted the same way as you...with the same hurt...unfortunately, his affair continued for at least a couple more years after that. Your H isn't quite getting it and, though I haven't read your story for a while to remember it....if you haven't done so, you should go to an MB weekend or get the home study course and go through it together.

All the best to you.

Fiori,
That was really insensitive of your H to compare you to other woman and tell you so. What was he thinking?? It sounds to me you both are in serious need of help communicating and listening. I feel like your conversations always end up in frustration and that maybe true feelings don't get resolved. Your husband handled his frustration by acting out - taking a walk - probably because he felt he needed the time to think - not realizing how it would impact you. For him to say he'll always stay home from now on is not handling the conflict well. And this doesn't help you because nothing's really resolved with why the conflict came up in the first place. How can you move forward when your going back two steps - does this make sense? Have you both considered a session with H or the weekend session?

G

fiori,

Did he say why he was down the street and away from your property? That seems a bit strange that he is taking a walk at 1:45 am. I'm not suggesting that he did anything, but that was truly an insensitive act on his part. He told you he would be in the yard and he told you he had his phone so you could call him.

Is it his work cell that he had? If so, you don't have access to the bills, right? Again, I'm not suggesting that he did anything, but he's not being completely accountable if it's just the call log that he showed you unless you can see the bill too to verify that he was not on the phone during this time.

It was his poor judgment that puts you in a place that you have to verify his accountability.

I know you have mentioned finances are in the way of Harley counseling, but can you afford the Home MB Weekend Course that Trix referred to? The two of you need something that you are working on together to mend this communication gap. He's not a great communicator either, he says things that he doesn't mean and he doesn't say things that you need to hear.

Hang in there.

Of course, my H had a secret affair cell phone which the OW provided. He kept is stashed in his truck and always kept his truck locked) I eventually found it.

Maybe it was normal for your H to be walking down the street after 1:30 AM...but I sure don't think it 'normal' behavior for a FWH who is in a real recovery. He was thinking of something other than how hurtful it would be if you found him missing....quite thoughtless behavior.

(try to break your long posts into smaller paragraphs to make it easier to read)

Ok...here goes.

He went out to look at meteors...a very normal thing for him to do in our area. Normally he does this in our back yard but the trees are in full bloom and he was peeking through pockets of leaves. He walked to the end of the street where there is a large feild to see any shooting stars. No, there is no pay phone any where near us.

Yes, it was his work cell phone. No, I do not have any access to bills. I do not think he was talking to or with dumpy red-head. I believe he was doing exactly what he said. But, I felt it was insensitive for him to get it to a point where I came down stairs and found him gone. His wallet was here, keys & computer, so I knew he was going nowhere.

Today we are caught in ugliness. I'm angry and he's not getting it. He does understand my frustration and is very sensitive on most accounts. But, this threw me over the edge. I just do not think it's "normal" for anyone to be out walking in the middle of the night. This is not abnormal for him as he's in IT and works strange hours. He usually runs between 11 and 12 in the night.

There is probably no secret phone. Trust me, I pretty much know every corner of his car.