I think Lexxy has cristalyzed the entire point I've been trying to make in much less words. Thanks for the lesson on verbosity.

I'll add to that that it's very, very important to do a lot of soul searching on why you picked the mate you did and what characteristics they have/had that made them susceptible to cheating so that you avoid people like that.

Remember: Needy people attract other needy people, which is a recipe for disaster.

POM - I see now that some of my initial thoughts of your posting was wrong. I thought that you were saying that it was impossible (I'm stretching this a bit) for a WW to be faithful later on if they cheated without kids.

I believe now, after getting caught up with the thread, you were talking about the ones who don't really earn an F in recovery. Those that still have the same mindset as before.

I don't tend to post in a disrespectful tone but I know that it can sometimes read that way. Things often times sound better in my head but for some reason my fingers cannot convey that.


I will disagree with this statement. For woman that were abused as a child they fall into two broad categories later. Those that are as you described and those that are quite the opposite. We tend to hear more about the former than the latter because it makes a better story.

I was sexually abused by my stepfather. Yes, I cheated on my H. They have nothing to do with one another. A long time ago I dealt with the issues of what my stepfather had done to me. I was/am a bit of a prude when it comes to SF.

In my experience of working with abused girls, most fill this void, not with men but with fear of SF. There is no validation. Obviously neither of us is speaking in absolutes.

The women who are constantly pursueing male attention is more of issue of self-esteem than of sexual abuse. There are plenty of women (and men) that have self-esteem issues that lead to this behavior that is not related to sexual abuse.

I suppose part of the reason I even bring this up after its buried in the thread (and continueing to T/J) is because it feels a bit like this could be used as excuse by a WS. I want to make sure if someone reads this early in the fog they don't take it to mean, hey, that's me. No wonder I cheated.

And please disregard all my spelling errors. I like numbers, not words.

Thanks, jlr.

I read some studies that indicated what I wrote. From what i understand some women go the path you describe, others take the opposite road.

The well adjusted women I've met have dealt with this trauma either with professional help or have come to peace with it in some way.

Your experience with your step father is what scares me to death about my kids. Who ever willingly lets a sexual predator into their home?

How often and how prevelant is the abuse by boyfriends and step fathers?

THAT is my greatest fear for my kids. You simply never know. A guy might appear nice and safe and you then find your daughter telling you many years later that something terrible happened by someone who was let into the home.

The study I read said that unstable relationships is very common.

I've also had other women who tell me about the validation thing as well that they themselves had as a weakness and led them to have poor boundaries with other men.

But I can see that a poor self esteem could come from lots of sources and not necessarily from abuse.

Thanks for your thoughts.

AWH, this isn't totally a threadjack because this insight is very important when trying to figure out the motivations of the wandering spouses.

My point about a WW coming back without kids in the picture is that I don't really see what would motivate her to come back for a long time. I can see her wanting to live the single life. Those that come back are ones who find that the grass isn't greener on the other side.

That can take an awfully long time to happen.

I've had too many exes come back to me later and telling me they wished they chosen differently but I have long since moved on when they contact me.

I simply wasn't all that exciting, I guess. I was actually told by someone that I was the marrying type, not the dating type.

Go figure. Should have been dating women in their 30s when I was 24, I guess.

Hey Pom,

Here is a link to my thread in recovery...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2083811#Post2083811



W's thread in GQII...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2076778#Post2076778



Thanks for your input and concern.

Intro,

Thanks for the links. Got the chance to read up on your sitch and remembered a few things.

By all means give your marriage a chance if you have a WW who is willing to become a FWW. She's putting in the effort and is getting help from the FFWWes on the board.

She said something which caught my attention and shows how she is "getting it".

She said that she realized that SHE created the man you have become. You obviously weren't this way before her PA and you are now the way you are because of HER actions.

SHE did this. SHE is the one who has caused you to react and respond as you have.

That's a huge thing for her to admit.

I had the impression you were still holding out for her to come back when that wasn't the case at all. With no kids I'd advise a BH to not wait forever. 6 months at most.

Drowningman has been waiting for years. His W (and they're still married) has had OM2 and OM3.

I didn't want this same fate for you or AWH or Gack or any other BH without kids.

But a woman committed to owning her mistakes, recognizing the extent of the pain she caused you, and working with you to fix the problems is worth her weight in gold. The day will come, if you guys can make it happen, where you will see the affair as the wakeup call your marriage needed. You'll feel the affair was unfortunate, but will be grateful that it woke you up and helped you recognize the problems in your marriage and will then have a marriage to be proud of.

That's the part I never could convince my exww that was possible. She didn't think it was or that changes could be made and opted to bail instead of try. She told herself, and still does to this day, that she did "try" for years.

Kind of hard to try when you don't know there's something you need to try to fix or are oblivious to the extent of the problem.

Easier to quit. Well, it seems easy anyways. But quitting on a marriage, especially one with kids, involves problems of their own which never really go away. (Custody issues, coordination with other parent, etc)

Those issues, in my opinion, greatly outweigh and are harder to deal with than actually working on the marriage.

Keep the faith and keep trying. The payoff could be wonderful.

Pomdbd3,
This is exactly how I feel, and I am having the same problems. Currently, my wife does not seem to think things can be good again. I don't think that she thinks I will ever let it go, but the truth is we haven't done the hard work of recovery. I don't think she has really owned her actions (although she says she is to blame) and her part in driving the recovery. My attempts at working the Marriage Builders plan have been so far rebuffed, because she sees analysis of the affair as punishment. I have been completely unsuccessful so far in shifting her perspective.

We don't have kids either, and I don't think we ever will. Adding that on top of her current attitude and my desire to continue investing in this marriage is diminishing quickly. I want to remain married, but life will go on without her if she can't commit 100% to the work of recovery.

andrew3,

One thing that I have noticed, since starting recovery is that I am more confident now (even during recovery) that if we fail I am going to be okay...if that makes any sense.

It's like a weight has kind of been lifted in a sense that if we do not make it, then I can still say to myself "you know what...I DID try."

Keep trying to get your WW to commit, but don't try for too long. Even if YOU put in the effort, and the effort is all for not...YOU will be the better person for helping her.



Pom,

Sorry for not filling you in on my sitch (W working hard in recovery)...it just seemed like you were pretty steadfast in saying "no kids, still young, bail"...and I may have been able to avoid some of our bantering if I would have explained that W is now home and committed to recovery.

I hope I didn't offend you with any of my bantering. My apologies.

Intro,
I agree with you and thats really the position I am in. I want to recover my marriage with my wife, but I have learned enough and grown enough as person to know that I will be fine if we divorce. I will grieve for a period of time, but then I will be happy, living and loving life. I can be somewhat of an introvert myself at times, but I have never had a lack of confidence. I want her to be with me to share a happy life, but my happiness doesn't come from her.

I am just being patient while she is deployed and following Steve Harley's guidance. My greatest fear right now is that I will put my needs on the backburner for another 3 months until she returns only to have her still not meet my conditions for recovery (follow the MB plan, that is).

I would love to have a wife that is as committed to recovery as KMS appears to be, Intro. I think you have a great opportunity to achieve a great marriage in spite of the affair, if that is what you want. Best of luck to you.

Danceswithanger,

You made a drive by posting but haven't said anything since. What's your story? Are you learning things on MB?

Do you feel differently since I've explained things better and have kiwi, eeyore, coachswife, and Mrs. W and I all on the same page now?

Just wondering. You made some very critical posts but haven't come back to give your two cents again.