No he would not post here. He doesn't know anything about this site.

So, here's a question. I wonder why some WS's DO see the light, come in from Fantasy Land, decide not to throw it all away... and some DON'T. Do you think it is all self-esteem issues?

I can only speak for myself and MY sitiation. I think my H is a good man who made a very bad choice then got so caught up in it, he felt trapped and just didn't know what to do. He wasn't thinking straight and now he feels so much guilt and shame.

But I read all these posts where the WS doesn't want to give up the OW or OM and the BS WAITS on them to come to their "right mind" for months or years. I don't think I could do that - but I don't know what I would do - I never thought I would even be where I am now. So, I cannot judge any situation.

Are they still working together? I keep asking because this is VERY important to your recovery. As long as there is ANY contact, recovery is stalled if not undone.

I have been reading these posts you sent me now for days. Basically, an affair can happen to pretty much anyone, very fast, before you even know. It all starts with "a thought" that grows. I guess since my H knew, we discussed hundreds of times, of my parents divorce and dads A, that caused a rough childhood for me that he knew the pain I had already suffered and he would never do it. Rather he told me he would never do it. I guess I really through it would never happen to me.

The shock stage took me a little long to get through. Glad to hear you are in a 12 year good recovery. It's inspiring. Thank You!

Yes, they work for the same company but not the same building. He is across town at a different location. He transferred right after D-Day. They have no contact and no reason to have any contact. They do two different jobs. I ride by both places, check emails, cell phones, home phones, milage on his car. I still check up. I do not trust yet nor should I.

This is good, except for maybe when it comes time for company-wide functions. Do you guys have a plan in place if that happens? This is part of the extraordinary precautions he needs to take to protect you and his marriage.

You're right. You shouldn't trust yet, that will come with time and will be hard-earned by him. Good job on the continued snooping. That will taper off eventually as well.

You ask an outstanding question here - one I still have yet to fully understand myself.

I do think that self esteem has something to do with it. But frankly, even more than that, I think some WS's are just too stupid. I know that sounds means, but honestly, that is how it appears to me.

When someone is generally a good person, well respected, not usually considered to be a liar, but they get involved in an A, a lot of those people eventually reach a point where they KNOW that it is wrong. They KNOW that it will end badly. But they have a really hard time breaking out of the A for a lot of reasons. They know it is wrong, and would like to break the cycle, but they need help. those people are "smart enough" to get it (I am sure there is a much better way to say that)

But then there are others who never see anything wrong with the A, they can never look to the future and see how it will end badly, so they just continue on that bad path.

My ex falls into that category - I always thought of him as "naive", sort of gullible, not very socially sophisticated. to this day he would tell you that none of his A's were bad, or wrong. They were people who he loved, who loved him back. That is it. nothing wrong with that. I recall him saying that "these things happen all the time, why does everyone think it is a big deal".

the reason I ended up filing for D, was because I knew he would never understand what was "bad" or wrong with what he had done, so he would eventually go down that same path. I could see that any woman could come onto him, and he would not understand why he could, or should, say no.

But I have seen many other WS's who do understand that they should say no, they can say no, and they will.

It sure sounds like your H is one of those people who is smart enough to "get it".

Yes, these things DO happen all the time and how many good outcomes are there? How many people have we all known who have had an A, left a good husband or wife for ANOTHER person only to find out that when REALITY sets in - this new relationship has more problems than the old one. And my most FAMOUS saying in life is...."If they will cheat WITH you, then they will cheat ON you" and people actually think that that wonderful person they cheated with would NEVER cheat on them. Any relationship that starts off with betrayal isn't a good relationship. It's down right funny when you think about it.

Sounds like you have found happiness now in life after going through this.

My situation was the same. My FWH told me he felt so relieved the night I confronted him...but at the time I didn't want him to feel good about anything. He felt trapped in the A. He was afraid she would tell me and he would have been right.

I don't know why some WS get it and some don't. It's in their "genetic makeup" I guess. Just be glad yours does.

You said he doesn't know about this forum, but he does know about MB principles right? They have a proven track record.

LynnLee,

Very sorry for the pain you are in. My husband was also very hesitant to answer my questions and gave the usual he was "protecting me" BS. Just last night we got in a fight because something new popped into my head and I wanted an answer. Of course in his head he probably hears it as the same stuff and doesn't want to keep rehashing it to death. He was mad but he still answered me and when he cooled off a bit I even thanked him afterwards for helping me.

If you have something new to ask or want clarification on something you already know, I'd make a list of questions as previously suggested. It's very easy to forget half the questions you want answered when your emotions are all over the place. Our MC told me I didn't need to know any details. The knowledge that my FWH cheated was all that mattered...we no longer see the MC.

The OWH gave me a lot of info when I first contacted him and my husband response was to deny 90% of it. I knew the OWH wasn't just pulling stuff out the air and my husband had zero credibility so who was I going to believe? I was tired of being hit by a bus every few days when some new detail would surface or I'd think back to a certain time frame that had red flags all over it and get emotionally and physically ill knowing some other bomb was about to blow up in my face. I told FWH not to talk to me anymore until he was willing to do as he said...do ANYTHING to help me. Just prepare yourself (if that's even possible.) If you have children, I'd advise not having them in the house. For my husband to tell me the details out loud sent him into a much deeper self loathing. In his head he could still minimize just how bad his behavior was or save face to a degree but having to hear himself say it made him want to kick his own a$$ for being such a pig. While the details made my husband only look like a bigger jacka$$ than I thought, in some ways it made me feel better to see the affair for the big joke that it was.

My FWH dropped his hobag without a second thought and is disgusted by his stupidity and selfishness. The OW had left her husband; supposedly she was planning to leave her hubby long before my husband entered the picture. Whether that's her spin or not, I know she was waaaay more emotionally involved than he ever was and now she has nobody. I know she feels like a complete idiot and is struggling financially.

I will never understand a person's willingness to hurt their spouse and family with an affair either. You can't make sense of the something that just doesn't make sense. You need to accept that it happened and there is nothing that can change it. It took me months to stop driving myself crazy asking how could he do this to me, our kids, etc. I still have to tell myself to stop with that sort of thinking when I feel it creeping in because no good will come of it.

Good luck to you. I know you feel like a crazy woman some times, but you sound very rational to me.

LynnLee - just to encourage you.

You are right on track with your feelings and emotions right now. You are expressing the exact same hopes and fears and questions all BS's go through in recovery almost verbatim.

I am now, 3 years out from d-day and 3 years into recovery and I still think about the affair a fair bit even though it doesn't hurt so much anymore and my wife was/is a model FWW.

Adultery is a traumatic, life altering experience.

Our marriage today is at a point that we probably could not have reached without some kind of trauma like this so for that at least I am grateful. We have a wonderful loving marriage now.

It takes lots of time to process all this and come through it.

If your husband is being evasive and giving yes and no answers he needs to read Josephs letter and make a full account. You will be unable to move on until he satisfies you with answers. And sometimes you will ask the same questions again a few weeks and months later. Merely because you need to process what happened to your life.

What you are experiencing IS NORMAL. and you CAN make it through better and stronger than ever.

Thank you for the positive feedback. I shared the "Josephs Letter" with my H last night. It was powerful. He said he has been ashamed and embarrassed to give me the details I've needed. He said NOW he sees how stupid it all was and how he cannot believe he participated in it so long. He said he really thought he loved her, now he knows what they had was NOT love.

He also said that in my "rage and ranting" times I have called her (OW) every name in the book. He brought to my attention that since she was also married that everything I was saying about her was also true about him. I never throught about it like that but it is true.

They were BOTH married, Both had children so every time I called her :
1.) sorry excuse for a mother
2.) low life piece of trash with NO MORALS
3.) physically ugly

...and so on... you get the picture. I guess the part that makes me so angry is that it was carried on right in front of me so many times. That part is hard for me to come to terms with. I was just too trusting.

LL,
Unfortunately, he had no morals at the time and he was a poor example of a father. He was tearing down his family for his own selfish wants. But that doesn't mean that he can't redeem himself and be a man of superior fabric and a wonderful father now.

It's hard on the WSs who come around and SEE what they have done. Some are brought to their knees.

Yet he can work through this guilt, accept what he did and be the driving force that carves out the new M. He CAN lead the way. He does not have to be defined by a mistake.

You two need to work the plan. It takes knowledge and determination. Make sure you both have it.

The past few days have been, not so good, in moving forward. I still have days when my anger overwhelms me, then I cry for a long time. Triggers, I can sometimes overcome and sometimes I can't. I know my H just wants to "fix it" but he can't.

Question: Does moving to a new city or state help? Or do you just worry that it will happen again with someone new in another city? Does moving mean running away? Because let's face it there are men and women at EVERY job in every state that are looking for someone to meet their needs. And it looks as if the job is the most common place for affairs to start.

You know you think your husband or wife is safe at work - boy it that wrong. Has anyone moved from the memories and things got better or worse. I guess to it depends on the age of the school kids too?

LL

Your WH has to understand the "whys" so he can understand how to protect your M from ever having to deal with another A. He has to learn his weaknesses, he has to establish boundaries, he has to avoid situations that can lead to A's.

Whatever led to the opportunity must be disallowed in the future or, yes, it could happen again.

He CANNOT allow someone other than you to meet his ENs. He CANNOT put himself in a position where this could happen. Sounds simple, but life is not. These "opportunities" are everywhere. So HE has to patrol HIMSELF and protect his weaknesses.

You also have to establish boundaries.

Moving away is a good idea if it is something that is feasible. As a BS, your life can be full of triggers just from your environment (not to mention the chance meeting with the OP). So leaving the area can be good. Dr Harley does recommend this.

Affair proofing your M is a must. You and your WH have to work as a team to get there, but he has a bigger part to play right now.

Michele,

Well moving is not really an option financially. Plus I would hate to take my teenagers out of the high school they love so much. The A is in every part of my life now. It never goes away. It's there in the decision making process of pretty much everything these days.

Yes, you are right. We do need to discuss more his weaknesses and what he will do next time, exactly. He needs to have a plan in place. We have discussed the OW so much and him avaoiding her that we need to cover other females in the future.

Of course he says, after all the damage, hurt and pain this one has caused he would never do it again. But we are still in the beginning stages of recovery.

It's hard, day to day, it's hard. I see why so many people do not make it through an affair.

So, at what point did you forgive your husband and start working on recovery? And at what point did you stop bringing it up?

I'm not Michele, but just wanted to comment on this and encourage you. There have been lots of discussions on MB about forgiveness, when to withhold it, when to give it, etc. For me personally, I forgave my husband once he returned home. But.... it took me a very long time to get over it and stop bringing it up. I didn't have MB to help me along, you do. I did so many things wrong in recovery that held us back far longer than necessary.

It began to get easier for me after about 2-3 YEARS. I mean, that's when I realized that I wasn't thinking about "it" every day. Now, 5 years later, we can talk about "it" and the hurt is a little stick (like they tell you at the doctor's office before you get a shot), LOL.

It does get easier and better. I can promise you that.

Oh, and you ARE working on recovery now. You're just in one phase of it.

Princess,

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I needed it today.

Personally, I started working on R immediately. Fortunately I had found MB during the spying process. I had found an email and it snowballed. The wise people on this forum helped me along. They advised me so I knew what to expect and what not to do.

I continued to bring up the A stuff for about a year and when I say A stuff it means questions like when, where, why, etc. We continued to talk about OW for quite sometime because we eventually had to have her arrested...long story. She is still a topic of conversation at times, because she keeps popping up (on the net and at events we are at). However talking about her is different at this point than talking about the A (if that makes sense).

Forgiveness...I would have to say that the beginning of forgiveness came the night I confronted him. But that was only the first phase. I had to forgive him over and over again. After every trigger, every thought, every reminder of every betrayal he committed.

Seems to me it comes in steps and not all at once.


LL, it IS hard. Some days your emotions will get the best of you, but time will help. I assure you if you two work the plan, work hard to R, and let time pass, you will R.

(((((LL))))))

One other thing LL, you are doing what you should be doing to get through this....asking questions, reading here. All the experiences that you read about will help you. You will be able to relate. You'll have lightbulb moments and breakthroughs. I've had it happen just writing a post. So keep doing what you're doing.

You're not alone.

And it feels GREAT not to be alone. Thank you so much! Those words are a comfort!