Based upon my vast experience of dating women since my divorce a few years ago, I want to suggest that the ......

OK, my experience is not vast, but I do have some. So, I would like to suggest that the following are red flags when dating a women in her late 40's to early 60's.

1. Believes all men are jerks, except for you. At some point she will find out you are a mortal man like all the rest. Then where are you?

2. Never married. If she took vows as a nun and recently left them, that may be a valid reason, but otherwise this is usually not good. Often these women are overly picky and have the 'no compromises' attitude. Alas, marriage is about making many compromises.

3. No children. Again, if she was a nun until recently, one can make an exception. Otherwise, it is likely she has lived most of her life putting herself first. This is easy to do without small kids to care for. Often these women are not bad people, they just have a different way of looking at things. They don't understand that your life has been limited.

4. To many divorces. I used to think three was to many divorces but, I am thinking of lowering it to two. Divorce scares the hell out of me! I don't want to go through it again so I am going to be mighty careful. A woman who is divorced many times is obviously not being very careful. If she doesn't fear divorce, she may leave a marriage to easily.

5. Instability. This can be reflected in may ways: frequent job changes, frequent change of locations, etc. Often they brag about how they can go anywhere and do anything they want. But, in reality, they have no base. Their life is built on a foundation of mud.

5. Debt. I don't mean she has a mortgage or owes on her car. I mean the woman who has $32,000 in credit card bills and can't figure out how she will ever pay them off.

6. Wants to live together. The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of living together outside of marriage. Either take the relationship seriously and work up to marriage (which may not be worth the paper it's printed on), or stay in separate homes and enjoy each other's company as visitors.

I suppose all of these could also apply to men.

Yep, all those could apply to men.

I'd add a couple. If the woman only orders salad, it's a bad sign. If she orders the most expensive item on the menu every time you're out, and never offers to treat, it's not good. Also, I personally would stay away from anyone who looked too perfect. A lot of effort goes into perfection, and either she's very self-absorbed or she's just dressing up the mutton for sale and will relax standards after the man says "I do."

Extremely good looking women are definetly a negative. One spends to much time watching one's back.

Your list sounds very similar to mine for men. I would also add to the red flag list #7 unemployed. This includes independently wealthy men that don't need to work. I'm sorry but people have to have something to do with their time, and have to have responsibilities that can be demonstratably carried out by going to work every day.

I also have to say I fail on your #4 and it is something I loathe about myself.

And I haven't made a decision yet on #6 - have a few posts going on various aspects of this.

I also fail on your #4 for being twice divorced but neither of them were because I take marriage/divorce lightly. I too will NEVER divorce again due to my fear of going through that pain again...therefore it's highly doubtful I will ever marry again. Not ruling it out....but I do truly doubt it.

I don't think you should judge someone based on a number rather than TRUE circumstances.

Ronda

We forgot number 8, if they've ever been incarcerated.

#9 If they were a stripper or porn star. Especially if they were male strippers or porn stars.

#10 If they started life as a different gender than they are now.

#11 Serial Killer - That's definitely gonna cramp someone's style.


I don't agree with #2, and #3 by the way. I was specifically interested in NMNKs when I decided to start dating again.

A lot of these red flags can be personal and non-general depending on your own situation, history, and experience.

I think #4 depends upon the circumstances. I think men may get a little more leeway here, since women more often choose divorce than men.

Look at all the stories here where faithful, yet clueless men are betrayed and/or used by women and left when they are bored with them.

Even Dr Harley says that most of the women he encounters who leave their husbands are not leaving abusive or unfaithful men. He can't get those women to leave.

No, he finds that women leave who are merely emotionally unfulfilled. They feel neglected and leave, instead of actually working on the marriage.

Look at how seldom, once a woman leaves the marriage on any of the men here who engage in MB, that they ever return. I know I spent thousands with MB, and my former wife still wouldn't end the affair, and work on the marriage.

And I think my story is most common for men. Far more common than having WW's return.

So I'd put some caveats into #4.

I think I'd add anyone who cheated on their spouse. Maybe, if one could really determine if they were remorseful about it, they are a good candidate.

But if they justify their affair with words like, the marriage was dead anyway, or he didn't understand me, etc. Let them go. Because there will be times when you don't understand her either, and once she's been down that path, it's easier next time.

I left my first husband because he was abusive. My second was unfaithful to me. This is why I hate generalizations like the above. Trust me, I wake up every morning wondering how I could be so pathetic as to have failed twice at something that was so important to me. I realize what is and isn't my fault, but it doesn't change how I feel about myself deep down.

The thing is, you only have two data points, compared to Dr Harley's thousands.

So while you may not have cheated or abandoned faithful or husbands who were not abusive, he has found in thousands of cases that most women who leave are NOT leaving such men.

So what I'm saying about #4 means we have to dig deeper than just counting divorces, but looking at the circumstances. If you left abusive or unfaithful husbands, I think you deserve some slack.

Yet there is another side to that. It's the "What's wrong with your picker?" angle. If you chose so poorly before, and say you hypothetically want to choose me, should I be concerned?

Even if your former husbands were bad, there is the concern that you picked each of them. That is a valid cause for pause.

Edited to add:

From that last perspective, the very same DOES hold true for men. If a guy's been divorced multiple times, what's wrong with HIS picker too? Read carefully, I said PICKER, LOL.

The possible typo might apply too.

While I don't necessarily agree with this point, I can see where you're coming from. Except for the last sentence, which I just don't understand. Could you clarify what that sentence is about?

Also, if the man in question also had no children, would #3 still apply? Because it sounds like you're talking about parents and the childfree being a mismatch -- and you may be onto something. In which case, for the childfree man dating women in their 40s to 60s, the red flag would be that she HAS CHILDREN.

I used to agree with #2 and #3, but having dated both divorced with kids and NMNK types, I have come to believe that the real answer is "it depends".

I have dated DWK psychos and NMNK psychos. I have also dated normal DWK and NMNK. Every person is an individual with an individual story. Now, I would not use that as an excuse to be dating an ex-incarcerated unemployed adulterer, but when it comes to matters of the heart, I am not sure NMNK is a red flag.

For instance, I have been dating J for 16 months; she's NMNK. After my previous experience with NMNK G, who never did get the concept that my kids will come first, I was a bit hesitant with J. But she has shown herself to not be needy/selfish, and she wants me to put my kids first - she has shown this not just by words but by actions over the past year and a half.

As to why she is NMNK, well, it's not because she has been selfish - she was involved with a guy for 5 years in her 20's, then was with a guy for 10 years whom she considered as her life-long partner but who cheated on her, and then (to her credit) she took a couple of years to become happy on her own and to grow. So here she is in mid 40's, not a selfish self centered person at all, but one for whom relationships have not led to marriage.

I guess my latest motto is "I won't hold it against you that you have never been married as long as you don't hold it against me that I am divorced" .

AGG

I like this. All of this.

You could probably say "it depends" on everything - including the unemployed previously incarcerated adulterer - perhaps he was wrongly convicted and because of his criminal record can't find a job but does do volunteer work full time and was only an adulterer because his wife cheated on him first while he was in prison then disappeared and he is still technically married but can't get a divorce without her signature. Okay, but really, there are enough available men and women out there that you shouldn't have to take a chance on a story like that, even if it were true.

No NMNK is actually at the top of my list and even though I'm certain there are good ones out there, I strongly believe a previously married man will be a better fit for ME. I have several reasons for this - the weakest being that I did go on a date with a NMNK who ended up being a stalker, but even before that it was clear he had no understanding of the process I had been through and was still going through. X's, especially those with children, still need to interact and sometimes frequently. This interaction has to be at least cordial for the most part. Often, they have to share personal details about their separate lives simply to facilitate the children's needs. This is true even for me and Wstbx whose DS is grown. People who are NMNK have a much more difficult time understanding this. Not just prospective dates, but friends, relatives, acquaintances etc. I just find I can't get on the same wavelength about this. I've also spoken at length to other friends who have been through this and they've had similar experiences - BF's who were jealous of their relationship with the X and so on.

Like I said, I'm sure there are wonderful NMNK men out there but I just don't feel a connection to them.

In the same breath, I don't hold it against anyone who holds my 2 D's against me. That's my bad luck.

"then (to her credit) she took a couple of years to become happy on her own and to grow. "

Hey, does that mean the rest of us that are doing the same thing get credit now?



I know I don't want to make the same mistakes again that I made in the past! Can't say I'll never mess up again. We all do - evey day. Just don't want to mess up where I've had a chance to learn (not anymore than I can possibly avoid). (Hey, maybe that's why I'm going on five years alone now! )

Actually it's getting to where it's not so bad anymore.! (NEVER thought I'd hear that come out of my mouth!)

I'm not in the dating area yet, and hope to never be, but I have thought about what I would do. Honestly, I don't think it matters to me if she was married before or not, but I don't want to be a father to anyone elses kids, nor have any more kids of my own. I just don't see how I can really handle all of that and do it well. I understand I'd be limiting myself, but that's how it goes.

Admittedly, part of that comes from already having a somewhat blended family. Part of that is because my father practically abandoned his kids from his first marriage, and I don't want to come close to repeating that. Third, I don't want this heritage of divorce to continue, and I feel like if were to start a new family, I'd somehow help that to come true.

I got the big V a few years ago. I didn't want to have kids, and was going to control what I can control, LOL.

I did marry someone with kids, but older kids. I have a daughter as well, and we make it blend somehow (not like the guys at blendtec do, some of the the "Does it Blend" videos are funny!

But I don't want to have any more kids.

And we plan to buy a smaller house in 10 years when my daughter is well into college, so they can't move back home!

I've thrown this into the arena before with AGG (a post from a long time ago) - but I'm divorced, no kids.....in a long term relationship with my BF (over 3 years now).....he's divorced with 3 grown kids. And, I'm a great catch!

I have known, and have made it perfectly, crystal clear that I understand, that my BFs relationship with his children is #1 - I'm A-OK with that - and it's one of the reasons I respect and admire my BF so much. He's an awesome father, and it makes me very happy to see the close and wonderfully healthy relationship that he has with his children. His kids are all grown (youngest is 19).

And, since I've had no children of my own - it's been a wonderful opportunity for me to have a relationship with HIS kids. I'm not their Mom, I don't try to be, but it's great to be a part of their lives. He and I threw a beautiful wedding shower for his oldest who was getting married, and I had a BALL planning the party, and enjoyed spending that special time with her and her fiance.

And, I cried at her wedding........sitting not far in church from her Mom.

So, there are exceptions to the "no children" rule.....we do understand.

Laura

Here's some other red flags you guys need to watch out for -

Goldie - The woman who sweet talks you into buying her things and taking her to expensive places all at your cost. She only supplies the looks and the sex.

Needy - The woman who has no outside interests & no friends. She will eventually suffocate you.

IMHO - additional red flags

Guys that are too feminine - needy - from an emotional standpoint, I'd feel like I was dating myself 20 some odd years ago.

Guys that do not have any outside interest. I expect them to have something to do, sports, hunting, fishing, golf, etc. I don't want to be everything to someone else. I want them to have guy friends to bond with.

Excessive drinking/drugs - rather sit on a bar stool, than do something to enhance thier life. If all your dates revolve around stopping for a drink, run and run fast.

Tells you the Past is the Past - most times it's not. That part of their lifestyle is just on hold till they hook ya

Poor relationship with parents, siblings, thier children.

As for your list I was married a couple of times and have no children. I don't think I'm selfish, I understand children come first. I just never had the maternal instincts. But, while you put your children first, remember my priority is my pets. It's a trade-off.

If nothing else, my future D or demise of my M, has helped me to grow. I've become independant, years ago I thought to be complete, I had to be with "someone", to be their everyting, to be a stepford wife. I'm glad I've let go of those feelings. My needs are important now and I won't let someone take that from me again.

HUGS