This is my perspective on why men have trouble communicating... if it helps just one person one tiny bit then its worth the effort writing it... <P>Most of us men would avoid conflict with our spouses/women and more so when we love them deeply, and more so if it is in an area that we feel uncomfortable in... lack knowledge in... lack confidence in... such as the emotional side, our feelings, our vulnerability... <P>Its something us guys cant fix with a hammer and screwdriver!...we cant bash it into shape!...its nebulous hard to get hold of...it frightens us!... <P>We find it difficult to deal with emotions period let alone identify what the feelings are, what they mean, and where they came from or why etc...so would avoid any exposure to this frightening concept of revealing ourselves to anyone specially women.....<P>It is only when great pain and deep hurt hits us, triggered by infidelity or something equally intensely painful, is when we can be motivated enough or forced to look at this side seriously.... we are forced to drop our pride hopefully long enough to allow ourselves understanding, insight and change, but we will resist and avoid it at all costs if we can.... <P>So until that pain and hurt happens we will think feelings will always be something for women to deal with rather than us men....perhaps another reason we will say...if she goes and fixes it, our marriage will be fine...!!!cos its womens business...!!!<BR>If we feel angry pi...d off or depressed at all we can only assume she is the cause and will look for faults in her being….her behaviour….her giving to us…her sexual desire or lack of etc …and when she gets turned off by our negative attitude we then assume we are 100% right about the cause of our feeling so bad…!!! <P>Those men who have grown up with..."Fight for your country" "Uncle Sam" "Be Brave" "Do for Your Country" and "for God for king and for country"...."stiff upper lip"... "hold your chest out"... "tuck your tummy in"..."be a man"..."stand tall"… imbuing tremendous pride within the male ego...to be seen as the "protector" !!...not only of the little woman at home and every other little woman at home….. but of his own country as well!!! wow!!!! What an awesome responsibility..!!!! What an honour!!!!...someone to rely on!!...someone brave courageous!!!!!.... me!!! The brave!!!!!! Match that against piffling things such as feelings...yuk!!!girlie stuff!!! thats for sissies!!! girls!!!weaklings!!!airheads!!!!not for real men...!!!!! <P>Not that any of these pride building affirmations are wrong in themselves...this is not a condemnation of such inspiration....just an understanding of some of the reasons why us men are conflict and communication avoiders in the heart to heart department...the emotional exposure dept...the revealing feelings dept....the communication at gut level dept.... <P>Yet we do have to communicate with these women... these females made from one of our own ribs...They are an enigma to us...we associate them with things delicate.. things dainty... things that break easily....things fragile...to be handled with care.……they think illogically...they talk irrationally...their behaviour sometimes beyond our male comprehension....and who can understand them anyway...!!!!!!!!!!<P>Yet they attract and affect us in ways beguiling....they are a mystery to us...they intrigue us...they interest us tremendously...we cant stay away from them...we are drawn to them as if by an invisible force....we are fascinated by their puzzling ways ……and we cant help but love them…….we want to touch them caress them…..see what they feel like…….we want to conquer them……we want to be with them so much we feel kinda helpless...they make us feel all gaga and weak inside....we cant think straight when they are near....they make us brave tremendously strong "he men" feel weak vulnerable and trembly inside.....these emotions and feelings of ecstatic euphoria and great sexual passion fly around inside us in chaotic fashion and cause us to feel we have no control....and because of this we fear these women and these almost uncontrollable emotions that can reduce us to fumbling insecure frightened angry lost little boys... And we cannot reveal any of that to them !!!! no !! no !!!no !!!not at any cost!...God forbid!..they would think us stupid!!!...weak...!!!idiots!!!... so we keep away from them...emotionally running away from them...we wont communicate with them...we will act indifferent to them..and pretend we are not affected by them....and most of all pretend and act as if we dont love them...!!! act cool man….!!!!!!<P>And when married to them can do little things to annoy them, to undermine their confidence....make them feel insecure with us...keep them at bay.....hurt them...turn the other cheek...keep distance between them and us...keep them guessing.... <P>All these games we play because we are afraid to be vulnerable...to be exposed...to admit we feel afraid...weak...unable to think straight when it involves women...afraid to get close...if they leave us we will hurt...if they get close to us we fear we will get hurt if they leave us, so we keep them away from us for protection just in case, we can feel safer that way.....and sometimes we can see booze drugs affairs and isolation or always being out with the boys as a welcome haven.. <P>After all this lady is the wife... this is the mother and the little girl....the nurturer and the protector, the lover and the loved....the carer and the cared for....she is all things to me....I am only the husband...only the man and the little boy.... <P>I must protect her to be protected yet I fear I am not enough....I am the lover to have her love yet I feel inadequate and unworthy of it at times...I care for her to be cared for by her yet I fear its not good enough.... <P>Yet I can never tell her these things...I dont know how to ...and I am afraid if she dosent like them she wont like me...so I keep them bottled up, wrapped in my fear...my frustration...my anger...and tied tightly together by my insecurities.... <P>Until us men can see that we can have... <P>more strength....more self power….more self esteem….more balance with the masculine and feminine sides of our nature....more love...abundant freedom...happiness...acceptance...<BR>depth of comprehension, compassion, understanding and spiritual awareness by examining these feelings....by exposing them to the light of examination to gain understanding release and change…....we will be continuously stuck in our fear....<P>But things are changing and more an more of us males are coming out into the bright sunlight to be exposed...to drop our fear...to be vulnerable, to grow...and to be more....to be better fathers and husbands...friends and lovers...<P>Thank God not before time... <P>Blessings <P>cossie....<BR><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Cossie,<P>I read your post with much interest and wanted to tell you it was very insightful. I've been seeing my H lately as a big conflict avoider. Seems when we discuss our relationship, he can't offer anything verbally to make me feel better. I'll say something, and if he's angry, he just sits there blankly or accuses me of attacking him (saying I'm pointing out his inadequencies-which I am not doing at all). Because I think our marriage needs improvement, he seems to think I'm accusing him of being a bad H. That seems to be how he sees everything I say. <P>Sometimes, he might hug me-I assume this is his way of trying to make it alright. I just wish he could say things.<P>How come when you first meet your man and the two of you are dating, he seems able to listen and to share whats on his heart and to care? What's up there? How come he loses that ability once married?<P>Anyway, your post was very insightful for me and I certainly will keep it in mind when it comes to my H.

hurtingwife,<P>Thanks for your response….hmmmm yes this does happen in marriage when the gloss of dating and exciting romance has changed to a deep love and commitment, you can only be hurt by those you love, it is easy to see why affairs can become an outlet from the commitment and feeling of being trapped sometimes and why people believe the affair is the greatest when they can express and have all the romance etc that was missing from their committed relationship…<P>We dont lose the ability to be free as much as it is the fear of being wrong and not being good enough take over, so any suggestion by the wife becomes an indication that there is something wrong with the H instead...<BR>And any criticism of the relationship is taken by the H as being a fault of his merely by the W saying that there is room for improvement...<BR>This is where communication skills are so vital to maintaining good relations between couples...<BR>Counselling helps because someone outside of the relationship can guide and teach good couple communication…this is necessary because if you both try to improve these skills on your own you will both go into defence... when the other suggests something that comes close to your own pain and fear an argument or closing up and resentment will result...and the gap between you will widen…<BR>Diplomacy and picking your time to approach the subject becomes important…he needs to be in a safe place (good mood) (unfearful) to be able to accept suggestion without taking it as criticism...perhaps you could try complimenting him each day...just one each day they dont have to be a grand affaires just small ones to make him feel at ease , then be subtle perhaps by asking him if he could improve your relationship what would he suggest…and go from there.?…<P>Hope that can help a little…<P>best wishes..<P>cossie<BR><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Cossie I always like to read your posts. THere's so much in them. They make me think, and most times I'm here nodding Yes, that makes sense.<BR>This one is not an exception.<BR>I can see it hapening with most men I know. <BR>I also can see the other side.<BR>We too have trouble comunicating you you, strong silent types.<BR>We don't want to look too clingy, or like we're complaining to much. So we explode with smaller things instead after keeping things to ourselves longer than we should.<P>We need to verbalize our feelings, and hear you guys doing the same. And when we don't, we end up thinking that maybe you guys are not that interested in us anymore. It's difficult for us to understand that you just have trouble talking about it, we have none <P>We like to hear from you when things are fine, instead of only when there's something wrong. You guys think that we're fishing for compliments that it can't be a real need. My H told me once: But why should I tell you you're doing a good job. Isn't it obvious? If I don't say anything it's because it's great. I will only say something if something needs to be fixed. I felt really bad with that explanation. I was doing 3 jobs. My two, and one of his part-times because with the change in his working hours he couldn't do it. I was tired and still finding ways of spending extra time with him. I was doing something I wasn't really experienced and doing a good job at it. There were no complains. I never heard a " You're doing great!",but if one day I made a mistake, he would come all out and tell me exactly what the problem was, and how come I had done something like that, and blaming it on my lack of experience. For him, this was just pointing out what was wrong, nothing else, and with no intention to hurt. For me was like telling me he didn't appreciate my efforts, and that I couldn't do anything right, as well as doing his best to wreck my day . It took me a while to understand that this was really the way he saw things. It was clear to him that I was doing a good job, so why pointing to the obvious? What a waste of time! When something was wrong however it was necessary for him to point it out to me. <P>ANother thing with us ( or many of us) is that we grew up with the idea that "real" woman, can do everything. The house is always neat and clean, the kids taken care of , food in the table on time... unfortunately that doesn't count much on the fact that we now work outside as much as our man does. And all that things that we are expected to do with our kids ( like going to the library to help them do research for their projects, and help them with the homework, and take them to soccer practice, and music classes, and... ) SO we end up exausted and feeling down because we can't fulfill all those expectations. And then instead of communicating that to our H's we just get frustrated and ready to snap at things that are not even important.<P>I also think that we ( generally speaking of course ) tend to take things more personally than you guys. We get hurt by thigs that seem so natural to you, and again, we don't know how to communicate this to you guys, because no matter how we explain it, it still doesn't make too much sense to you. <P>You guys tend to "show" us how much you love us. We kind of have to "tell" you as well <BR> <BR>But hey when we finally find a way of understanding these different ways of seeing things and communicate, and when we're able to meet halfway, we can really work well together <P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

cossie,<BR>enjoyed that post-as a guy understood<BR>where you were comin from-for me sadly<BR>it took this hideous infidelity for me<BR>to wake up and smell the coffee--better<BR>late then never though, my therapy and<BR>this site have been an awakening for me<BR>now i know i can become the person i want to be i only hope and pray my w <BR>will want to stay to see the real me<BR>thanks for the insight--much peace and<BR>love...trying hard<BR>

Kat1,<P> Thanks... I agree with you too....it was only the male perspective I was portraying...<P>Thru the learning and pain I experienced with infidelity I learned so much about the womens side too...on what women felt and wanted etc..and have tried very hard not only to understand them but to follow their thinking and feeling...very difficult task for a male I can tell you...Lol..<P>I also held the same view as your H ...why interfere with something thats going real good...what is there to say...? (incidently it is also the reason men are shocked to the core when they discover their wives have been unhappy for years, in a marriage they thought was fine)....<P>This is why I believe communication is the most important ingredient in a relationship...you cant fix what you dont know is wrong!!!<P>Most men will surprisingly try very hard to change when they realise there is something wrong in a relationship....<BR>They too get hurt by little things, same as you women but they think it does not warrant talking about because its so small and they dont want to be seen as complainers...<P>True lots of men dont say nice things to their wives when they do good...and yet when they are in positions of power will say nice things to their employees to keep morale and encouragement up...why dont they do that with their wives,,??????? this ignorance is under the light now and is changing....<P>Lots of men do now because they have learned about communication....and how important this is not only to women but to kids and all people too as a matter of..... interest, love, care, support, honouring, encouragment, pleasure, kindness, respect, and just a dam nice thing to do... we are learning slow though it may be at times...<BR>Best wishes....take care... <P><BR>Trying hard,<P>Congratulations...you are well on your way....it took infidelity for a lot of us to wake up! including me...<P>Have faith and take heart....you do come out of this and learn to forgive, learn to love yourself more than ever, come out far stronger than before it all happened, and grow in understanding faith trust and knowledge....and finally see the gift this experience has been to you and will be thankful it came into your life for your learning....but while you are in the throes of healing and recovery this will all seem remote empty words....but you wont forget them they will be in the recesses of your mind, because deep down your soul knows the truth....<P>Many blessings...<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

still in the same wavelenght cossie !<BR>And yes communication is so important, and yet, people do tend to turn inwards when hurt or confused, instead of explaining it to the spouse.<BR>In my case I could feel communication was down, but blamed it on both of us being so tired, forgeting that at that time that's when we should be communicating even more. It was a situation bound to bring problems.<P>And you're also right regarding the "wake up" after the affair - a pity that we should wake up only after, but understandable I guess -. It's when we really get close to loose everything that we realise we have to do something.<P>ANyway, take care, cossie, and keep posting <P>Kat<BR><P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Kat1,<P> Indeed....I think we turn inwards when hurt and confused because of fear which imobilises us and ignorance...we do not know what to say, or how to say it...and sometimes when we finally make the attempt it is inappropriate (as in a burst of frustration and anger) which compounds the problem....<P>I have been reading the Kryon series of books...very enlightening...he keeps saying (my words and interpretation) the angels disguised as H or W and OM or OW bring us the gift of pain and hurt because we asked for it to be bought into our lives long before we arrived here....and they out of love (not apparent in human form) have honoured us by volunteering for the task...all for us to learn and grow and be more...and in doing so helps so many around us and alters the vibration of the planet for all to benefit.....<P>I had known this for some years but Kryon puts in such a way to make it simple and easy to understand......and its very nineties, like its right now very current for out times...<P>Take care... <P>cossie<BR><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

I was going through some old posts, & discovered this one by Cossie.<P>EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT!!!!!<P>I have been really struggling with the fact that my H has such difficulty communicating at a deeper level. I was beginning to feel there was something wrong with him. That our relationship doesn't stand a chance because of his "emotional dishonesty", & lack of confrontation.<P>Cossie really hits home the fact that men of this generation have been programmed to be this way.<P>I also could not at all understand my H's revelation to me that he FEARS me. It made no sense to me whatsoever. My H also says he has a lot of anger towards me which he has yet to come to grips with. He cannot understand it (or his mind won't let him), so therefore he cannot explain it to me.<P>KNOWLEDGE IS POWER<P>TO KNOW IS TO UNDERSTAND<P>Hope this helps others as well. Thanks, Cossie, if you are still lurking.<P>I would really like to also know what men have done or found helpful in being able to "come into the sunlight... drop the fear" as Cossie puts it.

Hello Sidney,<P>Have only a few minutes just dropped by.. Thanks for your message and comments I am glad it gave you some understanding...<P>Seems like your H would have anger misplaced at you for underlying hurts imagined to be your fault...he may have some genuine "beefs" of course but more likely would be associated to the pain and hurt he feels from long ago....when I have more time I will look for one of your posts and say more then.. <P>regards...<P>cossie<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

cossie -- Being the man that you described, I confer upon you a PHD in the male mind.<P>No quite reading my mind . Please <P>Very well said.<P>God Bless

Cossie, I've been reading through your post trying to understand my husband. I still have found understanding. Maybe you can help me a little more. Here's the thing, In 98 my husband decided to return to school to better himself. I agree to handle all the bills and so forth. After about 6 months I realized that it was getting impossible which caused me to deprssed about it. I mentioned it a few times. My husband would just bottle up and say it would get better. Well summer break came for him and a friend told him he had a job lined up that would make him good money. So he lefted for the summer(against my judgement) I was to join him 2 months later. During the time we were apart he had an affair. He said he thought he was in love because things she did and told him. Now I see it this way you have a wife at home struggling to take care of everything why you hurt her like this? Help me understand the male mind better!

I printed our your thoughts for my H to see what he says about them.<P>Communication was and still is a major problem for us. My H hates to argue, I on the other hand grew up in a family where my parents argued all the time.<P>My h becomes very nonconfrontational about problems, I couldn't get him to talk so I would get mad and start raising my voice and getting angry because I thought I could get him to listen that way and maybe we could work it out. I took his hesitance to talk as an attitude that what I was having a problem with wasn't important so therefore I wasn't important. This would make him back off to prevent a fight and then all communication would end.<P>A major problem I had concerning his affair was the fact that I didn't know we were having problems. I felt he never gave me a chance to make things right. He said he didn't feel he could talk to me about his dissatisfaction and insecurities. <P>To make matters worse, his dissatisfaction and insecurities were sexual in nature. He was feeling inadequate because of my lack of fulfillment. That is probably the hardest topic of them all for a man to show vulnerability.<P>Even after his affair and during our rebuilding he admits that he can't feel comfortable talking to me. He fears I will use the things he says against him. (which I do have a problem doing)<P>When I would ask him why he cried when he ended the affair with OW, but was able to admit everything to me completely stoically and dry eyed, he admitted that he felt he had to protect himself from me. He feels more threatened by my judgement. I of course felt this was hateful and rediculous because I couldn't be such a horrible person.<P>He is right though. I want him to open up and then find myself time and time again getting mad at what he says.<P>Just the other day I asked him what he felt when he saw the OW at work for the first time in months. He hesitated, didn't want to answer. I of course pushed, he admitted he still felt she was attractive. I was hurt and he knew it. When he admitted to me a residual weakness he had from becoming so spiritually weak before and during his affair (the weakness was that he still finds himself lusting after women) I hit the roof didn't speak to him for days and just almost left him for good.<P>We could analyze whether he should have admitted this to me and actually did on one of my posts under the name Bottom of the List. The main point still remains that when he does try to open his heart to me I hurt him for it. It is no wonder we don't communicate.<P>I feel bad for this flaw in my nature. I haven't controlled it very well even now when I am trying so hard to not lovebust.<P>Cossie's insights on the nature of a man make me want to cry and beg my H for forgiveness.<P>Thank you cossie, maybe it will be easier for me in the future.

Ok..my H is only 26 and born in a liberal European country. Why does HE act like that, too? Are all men like this?

sidney,<P>A little more on your post....men will not be able to change until they are forced by pain/fear of loss...or can see the value in doing inner work...(gain) When they think they can be better and if the motivation is strong enough, they will go to counselling or some other learning to be able to communicate and change...<BR> Thanks..<P>Empty Shell,<P>Thanks for the kind words, There must be a few of us around that think like what I have wrote...??? or are you and me the only ones game enough to admit it..?? hehe...Take care.. <P>Spicey2,<P>While you take responsibility for your H he will continue to allow it and play the game...<BR>Men dont do things like having an affair to hurt their W's on purpose, most dont know why they do it....most are running away from pain/hurt and are afraid to get too close to those they love (their W) because it is only when they feel close to them is when they would feel their pain/hurt buried from long before they got married...and this old memory will create fear within them so they hhave to put distance bewteen you to feel safe....<P>I have posted here on "Why Men Have Affairs" if you search the name cossie I am sure you will find it...and it may give you more insight into the psyche from a male perspective..<BR>Bye for now..<P>Essyboo,<P>Thanks for your post,<P>Hmmm you wrote......."The main point still remains that when he does try to open his heart to me I hurt him for it. It is no wonder we don't communicate.".........<P>You have no chance of this man coming to you for help or for understanding while you remain as you are...<BR>When he needs your help and understanding all he gets is anger,demands and a bawling out...!!!!<BR>If the roles were reversed, would you be able to be vunerable with someone like that who is supposed to be your friend..??? would you be able to trust your heart to someone like that not to have it stomped on ..?? <P>This is not written to make you feel worse about yourself (even though it probably will)<BR>It is written here to try to make you see that the problem here is not him being able to be vunerable with you...but that you have a deep seated insecurity problem that needs to be addressed and need a good counsellor to get to the bottom of it for release and change....<P>Apologizing to him, feeling remorseful or begging his forgiveness unfortunately will not change this situation...you need to tackle the core pain and hurt inside you that makes you want to control everything around you, and causes pain not only for those around you but for yourself too...<P>You have a lot of things going for you...he is still with you....he still loves you in spite of your treatment of his attempts to be honest/vunerable with you....and in spite of his feeling inadequate with your unfulfilled state...<P>Go get counselling before you lose him altogether....(sure he needs to address his own insecurities too)...but that is a separate issue.....maybe after you have had some counselling yourself, then maybe you can do counselling together and separately as well to give him the space to talk to someone less threatening...<BR>I am surprised he has not run to another woman for some mothering/nurturing more than he has...<P>Save your marriage, seek help, this is a man who loves you, or he would have been long gone....<P>Many blessings....<P><BR>Cristalle 1,<P>Thanks for your reply,.....I am not sure if all men are like what I have wrote, but maybe theres more around than I think ...<P>I do know that being of different nationalities make no difference in how men feel, they hurt just the same as us or any other male on the planet, and are affected by their love of their mothers and wives just as any other male is....so maybe that is the common thread to all men to affect them in the way I have described..???...<P>Regards..<P>cossie...<P><P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>