hello all!
I've been lurking here trying to get insight, and also doing research on MB terms and teachings. At the same time I have been gathering information on my WS and contemplating a next action.

That is why I am now posting here: I am caught between two options.

A little background. I am 50, WS also female is 42. OW is 38.
WS is Bipolar, and generally does a good job of managing it, except in regards to boundaries with "friends." (I am open to the fact that possibly BP has less to do with this, it may be a character issue).

we have been married for 13 years. during that time WS has had 5 EA / PA. during each occasion she has been at least mildly manic. I don't believe she is on the right medicine mix at this time. Ultimately, though, she needs to take total responsibility for her illness and the limitations it imposes.

WS's last EA was october 2007 - april of 2008. because it was under the radar of me obtaining enough evidence to expose, her new counselor (who is quite good) gave her benefit of the doubt that it was just an out of control friendship. I think counselor realizes what it was now.

In May and June of this year, things were great between us. Then, a new OW came on the scene that WS met through her work (a drop-in center for the mentally ill). OW is also bipolar and a week ago just decided to go off her meds w/o therapist being informed.

Before the month of July was over, WS and OW are calling each other 10+ times a day, texting 4+ times a day, and "pal-ing around" every day to every other day.

I object, because I know the pattern well after 5 times, and am given the typical WS and OW we are only friends. Sometimes thru the fog, WS authentically mentions that she knows she needs to cut back contact with OW, only to manically "forget."

Going back over the last 40 days of phone records, and spying I am now 100% sure this is an inappropriate friendship (have evidence); 95% sure it is an EA, and unsure if it has gotten to the PA point yet.

The information I have on the EA is the pattern of contact (1st thing after driving away) and a copy of a A-Z list of positive affirmations that WS created for OW to work on her negative self concept. Excerpts: Adorable, Cuddly, Luscious, Mine, Pretty, Restful, Sexy, Yet again Sexy, and Zero Unsexy.

tomorrow WS sees therapist. I can go there and show the records I have (And potentially blow my sources, since they will just use harder to detect means to contact).

or, WS and OW have planned a Saturday visit (WS to OW's house) when OW's son will not be there (WS lied about "Not sure if he would be there," manic OW blabbed that he will not be). I could try to hire a PI to see if they catch any thing Saturday that proves a PA.

What would you all suggest?

A little background. I am 50, WS also female is 42. OW is 38.

GinaF,

I imagine you didn't want people to focus on this part of your post too much, but are you saing that your marraige relationship is between two females?

yes. so is OW (who alledgedly is heterosexual, she keeps telling me that, even if I don't ask).

We had a commitment ceremony.

Did I hear chick on chick action?

5 affairs?

Divorce.....sorry.

no you can't watch

that's a smiley, btw. a little levity helps.

but same general dynamics as male-female when it comes to MB.

Seriously?

Don't even try?

Is this a MB position, just give up?


Certainly possible that it could end there, and a serious jolt is needed by WS to wake up out of the fog, but even if she wants to work on the marriage and make permanent changes, your counsel is to just drop paper on her?

I'm mildly bipolar and found out after the affair that I had that I was. I was in a manic episode at the time. However I cannot let that take responsibility for everything that I did.

At five affairs it is clear that this person is a serial cheater. Doesn't matter to me if you guys are the same sex because one of my close friends is a gay female.

At five affairs I would cut my losses, sorry.

Gina --

I've been involved with a bi-polar partner who didn't manage his illness. And all I can say is *never again*.

I know you have history and time together. I don't envy your choice.

((good luck to you))

Gina,

I'm not sure what the MB way is concerning someone who had 5 affairs (that you know of) and counting. But, if the MB way is anything other than divorcing this woman, and you do something other than divorcing her, you are going to be dealing with this for the rest of your life. If not, she would have stopped a long time ago.

you all may well be right.

I will tell you this.... if she doesn't make a 180 degree course change it will be over, this time I am not letting any excuses apply, neither will her therapist or parents. She doesn't have to play, she can walk, but that is what it is going to take.


but making an assumption she will make the requisite changes....


should I expose the EA tomorrow at the therapist (who will kick her butt)

or wait until after a PI report from Saturday, assuming I can get one that quickly.

...until the next time.

How many times have you told yourself the above?

Maybe it's time to face reality - she's likely not going to change, particularly as she knows she can always fall back on you.

I don't think the principles here will apply to your situation. MarriageBuilders is based on traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Even long term shacking up between heterosexual couples is not condoned as a true marriage. It sounds like your gal pal is into promiscuous behavior and exposure in a case like this would not work like exposure in a traditional marriage, for obvious reasons.

Like looking in a mirror MIM.

Gina, sorry to tell you this, but the general dynamics for same sex relationships are almost NEVER the same as for opposite sex. Well, a few dynamics are the same, but most are not, to be more specific. Most gay and/or lesbians PROJECT that their values are the same, which is kinda like someone who cannot define the color green trying to convince you that they know all about green while describing blue.

There are all sorts of reasons for this phenomenon, which if forced I can detail. Some are not suitable for a "G" rated support group/forum. But I was under the general impression that most gays understood depending on WHICH dynamic is being addressed. And there are a FEW dynamics that a given gay would LIKE to have the same, but seldom can find it.

Codifying the inner workings of a serial lesbian cheater would require more identification as to overt expressions of their personal leanings; butch, fluff, lipstick, etc. So I can't drag up my usual attempt at motives for you.

But I am going to guess anyway. One common factor that does not change for same gender female, is PEA poisoning. In fact, I understand that Phenylethylamine or Phenylethylalamine brain dysfunction might be an even bigger deal for a lesbian and in any event can be very addictive. This is a meth-like chemical with equivilent highs. It wears off after a while and true junkies will go looking for true love with yet another suspect. Use the second spelling for google links of its effects.

If you have someone who is that addicted to PEA, then just forgetaboutit, as they say in parts of NYC. I have other possibilities depending on her leanings, but the every popular PEA poisoning addiction is always a good bet for a serial type.

Larry

Er, and no, I don't wanna watch. And in addition, I don't want to reveal the inner workings of those who do want to watch. :crosseyedcrazy:

Threadjack warning..

Larry, there is a poster named Unsurestill, I think she was asking for more info on the PEA addiction. Could you pop in and give her some info?

Thanks

Yup .

I don't think I'd have stayed around to experience so many betrayals though. And the ones that I went through were about 20 years apart...

Thanks for all your opinions.

The meeting with the counselor went well. the counselor agreed with me and WS has told OW that she must stop contact.

We'll take it day-by day.

I've got you beat in number of EA/PA so if you want my input just post again. FWIW, mine is not homosexuaul so you can take that into consideration.

Been on a real roller-coaster here.
WS has said goodbye to OW; OW continued to contact (and then vice-versa), and WS was hospitalized for suicidality over the weekend. Was constantly contacting OW during hospitalization.

However, in therapy in the psych hosp, decided to end the PA (confirmed - maybe not sexual, but def physical).

OW showed up at her work - "move in with me, we can just be friends..." WS declined. Allegedly NC for three days now, but I wonder.

WS's medications increased to level her mood.

Sometimes I wonder what I am doing.

post away, iam, what say ye?