On October 19, 2007 my wife sat me down and told me that she was in love with another man. This person has worked for my father-in-law for the past 10 years doing plumbing work. My wife also works for him and this is where it gets complicated. In January 2007 my wife and the OM bought the company from my father-in-law, which I didn't say anything at the time, but I didn't like the idea. At the time, she said she mainly did it because it allowed her to work from home. For the first few weeks after she told me I tried to understand and rationalize why it happend and swore to her that I would do anything to work it out. Everytime we would talk about it she had a whole list of reasons why it happend, we had grown apart because of the kids, she was having a hard time emotionally because our credit was ruined due to other businesses, I wasn't romantic enough, I hadn't given her flowers in a long time, it was nobodys fault, it just happend, and on and on. It was never her fault
We have 4 children, 12, 10, 7, 2 and I would do anything to hold our family together and not let the kids get hurt. Several times ,unfortunatly, I allowed her to make me think it was my fault and after awhile I would confront her and demand that all communication stop between them and that she give the company back to her father(she's never paid him a dime), but she would refuse. To make things worse she told me that she's had feelings for him up to 8 years ago, before he went to prison for 4 years for manufacturing meth. For the last 10 months I really thought things were getting better but I just kept having this voice in the back of my head eating at me, telling me things weren't right, so I decided to tap my phone at home. We don't get a good cell phone signal so she has to use our home phone and it was suprisingly easy to do. I only had to listen to a few calls to understand that it was still going on. They don't get to see one another(that I know of) but there's alot of flirting and talk of eventually being together. To say the least, my selfesteem has been shattered. I know I'm not perfect but I am a good husband and I've always tried to make my wife happy, and for her to do this to me, I just don't know what to do. I've not said anything yet because I want to listen to more to find out how far this has gone(she told me nothing physical ever happend). Do I confront her and say this is it, love me or leave me(which I've done before) or do I just give up? To make me feel even more helpless, my in-laws are depending on them to make payments so that they have some kind of retirement and I'd bet dimes to dollars that if they cut this off completley the jerk will not want the company. Either way somebody loses. If I keep going the way things are I'm going to end up hurting him and If I can get my wife to admit this is wrong and stop it then it will probably be really hard on my in-laws. Wow, sitting here writing this I realize how poor I've handled this. I should never have let this go one more minute after she told me, I should have draw a line and said no more. Again, I'm not perfet but for my wife to want to leave me and destroy her children for a guy that's 10 years older, been in prison twice for drugs and acts very inmature, it just makes me feel like a real piece of trash. I've lost a lot of respect for her but strangely I still love her very much. What do I do?

Hi, Phi...

I could resist the rhyme.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

I totally understand the self-esteem shattering. Do yourself a favor and take some really deep breaths and listen closely...

Her A says absolutely nothing about you, 'k? Not one thing.

Right now, you have the opportunity to build REAL self-esteem...based solely on your actions, your code, who you really are. Not anyone else's actions, 'k?

See, she's lost in fantasy...not an excuse, a fact. She's built up resentment, hardened it into entitlement and has lacked respect for you, herself and the marriage. She's stopped acting from love and respect for you, so she stopped feeling it.

The OM is a fantasy...he's not real. You're real. You are her real spouse, her real partner, father of her children. I'm stating this so you will know who you are, and what she's doing...and who is NOT a part of your marriage, 'k?

Kudos on the snooping...that's owning your half of the marriage. You are ascertaining The Truth instead of relying on her for it. Very healthy and brave of you...stay with it.

Do you want to save your marriage? Do you want to bring reality to your fogged out WW? Do you want to fight to keep your family intact, and build a new marriage, where you both are in love with each other? You can. Many here are living proof this can be done...and if you choose to do so, no matter what happens, you personally can recover from this great betrayal so you can look your kids in the eye ten years from now and they'll know you did everything you could.

Get Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair" right away and read it. I strongly advise you go to an intense and amazing Plan A for three weeks, and then plan on a very dark Plan B. You've kind of, sort of, Plan A'd a bit since last October. My guess, it was more off than on, back and forth.

Now is your chance to do it really well--only you don't have time to learn as you go...because three weeks isn't that long (though in pain time, what you're in, it drags by, I remember).

First step in Plan A is to eliminate your Love Busters (LBs)...read the Basic Concepts and all the links in it...identify what your main ones have been in the marriage, and what you may be still doing...read these carefully. For every 20 love deposits you have made since last October in her love bank, you've most likely wiped out with one single LB, 'k?

Which is why it seemingly may have gotten better, then worse, then terrible. Also, keep in mind you're living with an alien...your WW is NOT your W...she's in a wayward state of mind. Do not take her stuff on as your own...her thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions, point of view...listen to what she says and do not take it as fact; don't take her truth as The Truth. It's hers, 'k?

You don't have much time...seems to me, you are on the verge of losing your love for her...which is reasonable given how long this A was gone on...so Plan B comes after Plan A to protect your love for her. You are more than enough to bust up this A and recover your marriage...you are not so strong as to fight for the marriage and fight yourself at the same time.

Next is to expose her A to her parents, especially her father. Ask him to take back the company and to fire her. Do what it takes, tough love. Ask him to fight with you for your marriage; tell him how much you want to recover from this, and without no contact (NC), you know that's impossible.

You intuitively knew this before...and you asked for it...now it's time to get others, friends of your marriage, to help you out, 'k? You are not alone.

Expose to other employees at the business...to the rest of her family. Tell your children the truth and that you're fighting for your marriage...tell them that their mother thinks she's in love with another man and that's not allowed in marriage--it's only for two people. Tell them you're going to do everything you can to stop this relationship because you have no doubt she can be in real love with you again in time.

Every action you take will build your self-respect and self-esteem...because you aren't basing it on how someone feels about you; you're basing it on your own courage and commitment. Your emotions will settle down each time you feel fear and act, anyway.

Bring reality...state that you know she is continuing her A and putting anyone ahead of The Marriage attacks it. Inform her you do marriage, not divorce. And contact continues the A. Leaves no room for reality, for recovery or rebuilding...and tell you know, without a doubt, you both can be crazy in love with each other again.

We don't actually make our partners happy...I know we were taught we did--which is why our esteem rises and falls with their feelings...which are theirs, btw, coming from inside them, to them, from their beliefs. We look at earning love...what we do to get it from them...not realizing they can build resentment, effectively blocking the loving feelings, cutting them off. That's in their control, not ours. A's really show how off our beliefs have been. Choose new ones...see where you act from love, then loving feelings result. Not the other way around (I feel therefore I love).

You know even when you don't have loving feelings, you love her. You choose to love her. Now you're doing one of the biggest acts of love there is...fighting an A.

Bust the A up...exposure (informing of the truth to others and asking them to help you); eliminating your LBs, and identifying her Emotional Needs (ENs), seeing where you were off target...often, you will meet an EN that is really yours...like if admiration is big for you, you will make statements of affirmation, appreciation, admire and compliment her. Her #1 EN may actually be conversation, being listened to, understood; or honesty and openness...where you share your stuff with her and acknowledge and validate her stuff.

There are questionnaires you can download on this website...the EN and the LB one...and there's a neat one called Recreational Inventory...it's really long...which can give you great ideas for Recreational Companionship activities...playing together...so you remember you are allies, not enemies...easy to see WW as your enemy when she's attacking the marriage. Dr. Harley says at least 20 hours of Undivided Attention (UA) is needed during marital crisis...and you're in one.

Make it your top priority to do these things and fast...do not allow yourself to LB...own what you've done, why you did it, and why and how you won't do it again--none of the LBs are really who you are anyway...so again, you build more self-esteem by eliminating them...freeing yourself of them.

Read and study--you can do this. Keep posting. You are not alone and you won't be abandoned. Weekends are slow (especially holiday weekends)...do not be daunted...do not talk yourself into defeat...commit to fighting hard for at least two months...it's a drop in the bucket for decades more of a great marriage.

You can do this.

LA

phi, LA is giving you some great advice. I would only add a couple things:

• Expect nothing from your W as long as the A continues
• Exposure is the best weapon you have to stop the A. Do not let your WW know you plan to expose - she will twist the truth and tell lies to lessen the blow
• Your WW will be FURIOUS that you shed light into the darkness. She will tell you that you ruined any chance of reconciling, that she thought of giving you a chance but you blew it, etc. Don't believe it. It is fog babble.
• To justify her reprehensible behavior, your W will re-invent the marriage to portray you as an evil ogre that drove her to the A
• Do not give ultimatums - they do not work.
• Read, read, read. Read up on Plan A. You will start to see that As in nature are not that unique; they most all follow the same pattern.
• You may want to start posting under the General Questions II category as it gets much more traffic and you will get more responses.

Plan A is about 2 things: busting up the A and trying to meet her needs by being the best person you can be. It is a very difficult task but you can do it. Just stay focused on your goal.

Phil,

You should ask the Mods to move this over to the GQII board. You will get many more responses.

And do everything already told to you. Exposure is key in ending the affair. As unfair as it is, you have to step up and be twice as responsible because your wife has decided not to live up to her responsibilities as a wife and mother.

Also, be prepared for finding out it was physical because I guarantee you, it was and probably still is. I would suggest you cease all sexual contact with her for your healths sake. God knows what this guy caught in prison.

Good luck.

Phi
Are you totally against divorcing this woman? I'm not a lawyer, but is there ANY chance that you would NOT get FULL custody of the kids once the words "meth lab" enter the picture? Does she realize that OM is the KEY for her to never having her kids again? Unless she's a box of rocks, she HAS to understand this. Is she involved with meth at all? Maybe THATS whats attracting her to him. If this guy had a meth lab ONCE, i wouldn't be surprised if he STILL is involved one way or another. I mean, your wife didn't give a penny to her dad for the biz, sooooooo....where did the deposit for the biz come from? Him? ANd where did he get it?

The first thing you must do is find out if any METH is involved in ANY way. If there is, I really don't think all the exposing, talks, threats, planning etc, IN THE WORLD will do any good.

I mean, this guy MAY have reformed. I mean he may NOW be simply a scum bag, and not a "meth lab runnin crank head scum bag". But you GOTTA, GOTTA, GOTTA find out if meth is involved. If not, proceed as outlined by the vets here. Good luck man.

PS. Youre right to not have been comfortable with the purchasing arrangement. ANd I highly doubt it when she says "nothing physical happened yet" HES A METH HEAD. What is he doing with her, discussing world events and the state of California Merlots?
And, like the poster above said......if you ever have the opportunity to be physical with your wife, pass. Pass big time. The chances that she's picked something up are pretty good.

That is a matter of perspective...

You stand to lose someone who has disrespected you with intent This is not a terrible thing to lose in reality. It is PAINFUL...I will grant you that, exceedingly so, however, her choice of actions and the consequences thereof are NOT yours to own. Please do NOT.

Expose her actions. Let HER deal with the consequences.
...then you might have a chance,....that is IF you really think she is worth it.

It's your call.

Phi, You need to have your plan in place, and LA has given you the bones for it. Once you have some information under your belt about affairs and some ideas of how you are going to do things:

1. Install a keylogger on your computer. Do not tell her.

2. Without warning her, without discussion, without any signal of any kind whatsoever

EXPOSE THIS AFFAIR TO YOUR PARENTS, HER PARENTS, AND EVERYONE YOU KNOW

TODAY.

3. Be prepared for her to be angry, and hand her the telephone number of the Harleys. Tell her that you want her to make an appointment, and when she has, the beginning of the "new marriage" that you plan to build with her will be on the way.

4. Tell her you want a no contact letter written to the OM.

5. Tell her you love her, and that there IS a future after an affair. You have a plan, and that despite everything that has happened, this marriage can be better than she could possibly dream. She need only sign on for it, and start working the plan with you.

6. Get ready for your rollercoaster ride. Don't waver from the plan. With the help of the people here, you can do this. You are right - you handled it wrong awhile ago, but you are on track NOW and that's all that matters. It isn't too late.


SB

Thank you so much for responding. I'm just amazed how many caring people are out there that took time to respond to my post. I'm going to do what you suggested, I want my marriage and I want it to become something better than it was. Whats really sad is how hard I worked to protect her from the humiliation of the affair. I kept it(to this day) from my parents and I never told her parents, she finally had to because her father was angry at me for not helping work on our house(the OM was doing the plumbing on it). I never told anyone and the only person I was ever able to talk to about the A was one of my wife's friends. Other than that I've just kept it all inside and tried very very hard to show her how much I love her and want us to be together. Which was incredibly tough, it seemed every piece of affection I gave was an insult. And your right it seemed to get a little better then worse then better and now I honestly don't know who she is. I've always considered her to be one of the most honest people I've ever known and for her to continue this and act normal, well, its weird. Before, when she it was going on she was actually physically sick and basicly hid from me. Stupid me, I really had no clue what was going on. She was losing weight(I thought she was trying to since she'd been so upset about gaining a few pounds after the last baby) and, later after she'd told me what was going on, she was angry at me for not knowing she was having an affair and that was causing her to be sick and lose weight. I know, I'm ranting, DEEP BREATH! I will fight. Thank you again.

Thanks for the response, it's great to have so much help. I'm going to expose the A but I don't understand not giving an ultimatum? Is asking to end the A today not an ultimatum? I actually was going to reveal to her that I'd tapped the phones and then give her a choice, me or him,(this is what scares me). I belive she does love her children so I think I know she will choose me and the kids but I'm so disturbed by her behavior that I can't be positive. If she makes the right choice I was also going to demand that she have no contact(of course) and I was going to contact the SOB, I'm sorry, OM and tell him how things were going to work and that if he ever tried to contact her again that I'd bring a hell to him that he's never know. Sorry, I do have some rage issues where he's concerned. This is why I've kept my self completley and totally away from him. I love my children and don't want to go to jail for doing something stupid. I've tried to be smart in handling this but I think I've botched it at every turn.

Believe me I've thought many times about the possibility that I'd end up with custody not to mention the fact that our home is in my parents name since we've had a lot of bad financial problems. So essentially she'd end up with nothing. I'm 100% sure she's never done any kind of drugs and yes I'd considered that. What makes me so sure is one of the phone conversations I taped he was essentially trying to convince her that weed was ok. It really bothered her and she cut the conversation short. Thats one thing we've been in concert about. I think that he is still on probation and gets drug tested so I'm pretty sure he's not dealing or using but he sure like's to talk about how he'd never go back to it,even though he loved doing it and he talks about it too much I think. They never gave my father-in-law any kind of down payment, there just suppose to make monthly payments which they can't even afford to pay themselves muchless him.

I've thought many times that I'd be better off without her and if it weren't for my children I wouldn't have stayed. I do still lover her but do think I'd be happier without the pain. Again it's my kids I'm thinking about and I've told myself that I'd do anything to protect them and not let their world be destroyed, even if it meant being in pain for a long time. I just don't know how long I can keep it inside. I know I'm not superman but I do think you're right I have to expose and let her deal with the consequences and see if she's willing to try. If she makes the right choice can I ever really trust her again and, like you said, is she worth it?

Phi,

I'm glad you're amazed as you understand you are not alone and there are many folks who have been right where you are now.

Do not tell your WW about taping the phones. Truth is, you know...don't share how you know, 'k? Next, do not alert her to exposure at all...do the exposure. She'll know. Not allowing an A in the marriage is not an ultimatum...it's what you both vowed to when you married.

Busting the A isn't an LB...A's are fantasy, not reality, 'k?

Don't go into the future with any what if questions (what if I don't trust her again, what if she does/doesn't again)...those are time wasters and tail chasers. We have many recovered marriages on MB...trust can be rebuilt. Let that go and choose to know you can have a great marriage after recovery (and even in parts of it).

Same thing for the past...don't do if onlys (if only I'd done/not done this then that wouldn't have happened)...the past is indelible...understand what you would have done differently to do so today.

This is the way you stay present, go for clarity in your actions, and don't twist yourself up into confusion.

None of us know who our WS is...because they don't act like our real spouses. Understand in yourself that not knowing this person right now is okay. Remembering they are not your real spouses helps. Your real spouse can come back.

I'm delighted you are choosing exposure...be swift and immediate, 'k? Sharing the truth of her choices frees you from having been an accomplice. Also tells yourself you're worth honesty, being known and understood. Something really missing in the middle of an A for the BS. All remain true. Until you tell the truth, you won't experience yourself worthy of those three things.

She isn't herself...she really is in a deep valley built from resentment, built into entitlement and a lack of respect. Previous honesty you experienced from her is now tangled in self-deception...she began lying to herself and thinking she was honest. She wasn't. Hence, our term the "fog." It's real and it really sucks, too.

Keep breathing deeply...best way to settle yourself and clarify your path. Good choice. You can really hear her fog babble in believing you should have known and saved her from herself...that's WS speak...you can tell because it has no ownership, honesty or reality in it. Don't fall for it. Listen and repeat...hand it back. Don't take it in...it's poison, 'k?

Thank you very much for choosing to stand for your marriage, act from honesty and respect, and be there for your children. These choices are essential in recovery, as well, so you'll have a great headstart, 'k?

LA

Are you in luck! He's on probation? Call and talk to his PO! All you have to do is call the DOC to find out who to contact. I'm pretty sure they won't look on that lightly! He's supposed to be demonstrating "changed behavior" and instead he's trying to wreck a marriage?!