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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
stillseeking, my dear friend!! What are you doing over here on a thread with all these females titled Feminine Hygiene Products??


SS has been shopping this aisle for almost forever. He is ballast. Or maybe we are ballast. Who knows? I think it's him, though. Has a very even keel, SS does... grin


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Did that mean thunderandlightening make you come here??



:crosseyedcrazy::twobyfour::crosseyedcrazy::twobyfour:

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Hi SS!

I have problems with change but who doesn't? But I also realize it is GOOD especially in this case. I NEED to get out of this situation, and the more completely I do it the better. Radical change is called for.

Yes it is the end of this bad situation. The marriage has been over for quite a while...

With my freedom... I have no idea what I'll do but time always seem to fly! I have never been bored in my life, except when I'm stuck somewhere without a book or something to read... and that was before. Now I just "think" and it's great. Peck taught me that thinking is good.

My friend is not too good. She broke her hip in may and couldn't go bck to the aprtment she lived in because it was a first floor and no elevator. She went for a month to a home for the english elderly in the hospital where she is treated. Her daughters came over (one from USA and the other from Australia). They chose a home for her which is very professional and probably the most expensive here. After a month at the other place she was taken to thsi new one where she had a small room but there were plenty of places to sit in or walk etc. Unfortunately by that time although she was physically doing fine her mind was not very bright. She didn't like the other "inmates" as she called them.

well her DIL who practically pays no attention to her decided that it was ahorrible place and moved her after a month to another home, where she has a bigger room but whic used to be the garage of the house. It's damp and cold. She doesn't leave the room, and barely walks anymore. She's met the other inmates once and says taht she doesn't want to see them again. She's fallen once and bumped her head. She is not very logical in her thoughts, doesn't know what day it is etc.

I try to visit her twice a week, but it's quite out of my way. The family's decision was based also on the fact that they would be able to visit her more, but I'm not sure that is actually happening.

It's sad but there's not much I can do.

I should try to find younger friends! I have enough old people in the family as it is!

One must adapt. things change.



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How's M&L today?

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What I have done is try to remove myself from some of his stuff. Like scheduling. I don't schedule anything for him anymore and I don't promise his services at all. People have to talk to him. He makes a mess, not my fault. He's too busy, promised too much in a day/week/month, too bad. Does he still get mad and grumpy? Yep. Do I feel guilty? Nope. Not at all. I just keep my mouth shut. He still doesn't get it..that he did it to himself and I take the brunt of it...but it doesn't get to me like it used to.

I have removed myself from getting his help lined up for him. He said YS never helps him on jobs and so the other day I asked son to help dad and told him that dad would be back in a minute. (H said I am going to go to the shop and then I am going to go do this job and he drove off.) I look in a few minutes and H is off doing something totally different and was gone for a few hours, and didn't go do the job like he said. He is notorious for getting us all lined up to help and then dilly-dally for so long we have to go do other stuff (like hours later) and then gets mad because everyone left. He said he needed help for tomorrow and friday and our friend gave someone's name and I'll bet you big bucks that H never called the guy and tomorrow he will whine because he doesn't have any help. I am staying out of it.

I'll add more as I think of them.

I did these same kinds of things, and my W was married and lonely too. She was also married and angry, and wondered if she should be married. I was self centered, and worried about what I wanted, but not about what the family needed. I thought I was a good H, and that she didn't appreciate all the wonderful qualities I had.

When I got Dr Harley's books, and read them, it was easy to see why she wasn't happy. Harley lays it out very plain. The book that helped us the most was "Love busters, habits that destroy romantic love." Of course, I was willing to read it, and she was too. Once we had both read it and talked about it, things started to change.

As I would begin one of the prohibited behaviors, she would call me on it, and I knew...... I mean, I KNEW she was right, and I would walk away, or change on the spot. Dr Harley made it easy to see what I was doing wrong. Of course, she had some things to work on too. Problems usually don't appear in a vacuum.

I don't mean my problems were her fault. However, there are ways to work on the problems that will help, and there are ways that will not help, and may make things worse. Just as we often try to meet needs for our spouse that are important to us, and not necessarily what is most important for them, we sometimes try to fix things in ways that would help us,(were things reversed) but that may not them. You always want to make sure you are doing what will give the most help.

You have been here long enough to know that sometimes the BS gets tired, and walks away. I worry about that too. You have been trying for a long time, with little result. It's natural to want a rest.

I can't remember now, did you ever call the Harley's for counseling? If so, would you recap it for me?

The other problem is that strong (drastic) action may not work, but sometimes you can't go back, and it leads to D. There are decisions you have to make before you proceed.

Is D an acceptable outcome if he doesn't begin to make changes?
How far are you willing to go to get his attention?
Plan B ( a somewhat drastic action) usually has one of two results. Reconciliation, or D.
It's a gamble.

I know you have been thinking about this for along time. Where are you in your decision making process in relation to the choices you have before you?

I'll let you reply -
and also hope we get input from others.

Neak, you are pretty good at this, please comment.

SS



I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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Hi Everbody!!

I love hanging out here...so much fun.

SS, I am better today, but cautious. We are in the usual pattern, which is the fight day, 1 more day of heavy duty ignoring, 1 day of lightening up, and today, talk normally, hug/kiss goodbye, but oh so cautious. If I don't insist that we talk about it, it will just get ignored. So, since H told me the other day he thought I owed him a huge apology, I will ask him why, because I honestly don't know.

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I did these same kinds of things, and my W was married and lonely too. She was also married and angry, and wondered if she should be married. I was self centered, and worried about what I wanted, but not about what the family needed. I thought I was a good H, and that she didn't appreciate all the wonderful qualities I had.


This is my H in a nutshell, from my POV. I think he would think he is doing all the work, is under appreciated. I have thought he may even consider himself the martyr type...making all the sacrifices so we have everything, while he has nothing. Go to work, make the money and bring it home to all these ungrateful dependents. Hence the comments from him about trading, and just wanting to do what he wants for a change (insinuating that we are all doing what we want, and he doesn't get to do what he wants).

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there are ways to work on the problems that will help, and there are ways that will not help, and may make things worse. Just as we often try to meet needs for our spouse that are important to us, and not necessarily what is most important for them, we sometimes try to fix things in ways that would help us,(were things reversed) but that may not them. You always want to make sure you are doing what will give the most help.

I have been wondering if this is the case. I feel like I am doing a good job, but I am not the one to determine that.

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You have been here long enough to know that sometimes the BS gets tired, and walks away. I worry about that too. You have been trying for a long time, with little result. It's natural to want a rest.

I can't remember now, did you ever call the Harley's for counseling? If so, would you recap it for me?


I am tired. Like I said up top, it is still the same routine. 3-4 days before the ice melts and we begin the buildup to the next one. I counseled with Steve a few times and H did too. He liked Steve and we did the EN Q's and made a time to go over them. On H's turn to read his to me (not sure which EN we were on) he became uncomfortable and kind of tossed the papers on the bed and said "I really don't know what good this will do". We've never been back. I called Steve again after that (not sure how many times) and I must have been more focused on H than changing my ways and Steve told me it was really useless to continue. Really knocked me down.

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The other problem is that strong (drastic) action may not work, but sometimes you can't go back, and it leads to D. There are decisions you have to make before you proceed.

Is D an acceptable outcome if he doesn't begin to make changes?
How far are you willing to go to get his attention?
Plan B ( a somewhat drastic action) usually has one of two results. Reconciliation, or D.
It's a gamble.


I don't want to divorce. I don't want to live like this. I want it to change. I don't know how far I am willing to go. I know I have made personal progress and I am stronger than ever (most days). I have no doubt how I would handle another A. (Well, there are a few options, and I hope homicide isn't one of them). Whatever I do I must make sure it is what I want because he is not one to chase after me if I start making threats. If I file for divorce and change my mind, he would be more prone to let me live with my decision than let me back down. I don't know how far I am willing to go. Baby steps, so I am sure of each one.

An example of being stronger--this deal with the lunch with a lady friend, I would never have said anything to him in years past, just let it go and if I was able to say anything about it, I would have just let him belittle me for feeling bad about it. But not now.

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I know you have been thinking about this for along time. Where are you in your decision making process in relation to the choices you have before you?


I am not making any decisions yet. We are at a turning point with having our son move out only 5 days ago. Totally new territory, and I know I haven't been myself for awhile as this time approached.

As far as MB goes with my H, I think he resents that I am reading these message boards. But I think it is because I am learning things and maybe the strength is what bothers him. It helps me immensely! And reading the few threads in the not so distant past about gaslighting, oh boy did I learn from that. I think that is where I really learned how to stand up to some of his outbursts. Those threads made a lot of sense. Also, I saw that I used that technique and didn't even know it. I have worked on that alot.

I have a resentment about stock trading. Huge one. I don't know if MB will work if there is an active addiction. I have read about that on these boards but when I ask about it, get no clear answer. Even Steve wouldn't go there with me.

Thanks for all your help! Really has me thinking.


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I don't want to divorce. I don't want to live like this. I want it to change. I don't know how far I am willing to go.

I have seen many over the years who have said something like "I made up my mind I wouldn't take it any more, and if he/she wouldn't change, I was OUT OF THERE. That's when the change started."

There are also many who said that who are divorced. It's not a sure thing. Sometimes we don't get what we want, sometimes we do.

Often our spouse can sense it when the decision is made (not to take it any more.) Often they care,and change. Sometimes they don't care.

I know I am restating the obvious. You'll have to (or get to) choose. Not choosing is making a choice too. Actively choosing, even if you decide to wait 10 more years and see if he "gets it" is the better way. When you actively choose, you don't have as many regrets as when you passively choose.

I'll think more, and see if I have more suggestions. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this too. When you take the time to write it out, it becomes more clear to you what you want. It will help with your choices. I would also like to comment on other things you said........ but time does not permit right now.

SS


I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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Thank you SS. I am thinking about what you said and it does help to just write it out.

Unfortunately, after a surprise visit from the 2 kids who live away (and in the same town), and then 3 hours on the phone with HP trying to resolve a printer issue mad I am not in a state to respond! And tomorrow I have to leave town to get my car fixed, an equally irritating problem. (It could take up to 7 hours to get fixed and they may or may not have a car for me to borrow-I may be stuck in the dealership or walking).

Oh well, it could be worse!! :crosseyedcrazy:

So, it will be a day or two before I get to respond.
Again, thanks!

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I will offer some thoughts in more detail when I'm able, but have a couple brief ones anyway.

There is not a huge rush. You can leave (or have him leave!) at any point you choose to, which should make it a little easier to relax. Take your time processing through this, because either way time is on your side.

When you have a chance, what do you see as your options? Starting with "leaving today" all the way up through "staying because I'm happy and want to" and anything in between, what are some things that you feel you have control over...i.e. things that you can do?


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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Great NOT!!! sigh

Today I got a letter from my ENT telling me he was retiring the end of August.

Oh, well. Maybe the next one will listen to me when I tell her/him that my ear doesn't feel right. I do believe that it has not regained all the sensation it lost after the car wreck.

And, for what it's worth, I have an MRI tomorrow - trying to figure out what is wrong with my hip/back that it hurts so much to sit.

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trying to figure out what is wrong with my hip/back that it hurts so much to sit.

I would tell you that the diagnosis was pretty apparent, but you already divorced him...

So I'm stymied.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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Kimmy, you are TOO funny!!!


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



Neak's Story
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I wish I had asked for them to do my right knee while they were scheduling...

Perhaps I got this way from stomping around being so hurt and angry when now-x left...

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Yes, but you've turned into a princess...

Princesses flit and float on happy thoughts and ginger clouds...

So it COULDN'T be from stomping....

(Have you seen Shrek 3? Snow White is AWESOME!)


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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I don't know if I've seen that one or not. What happens?

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Some of the princesses get righteous and quit relying on the dudes.

Oh, and Fiona has some babies.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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Oh, I think I saw it......at the park with my son and dog. My dog loves going to movies at the park. My dog loves to go.

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I'll bet it's more fun to watch your dog...

But Snow White was awesome.


I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?

O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.

My Story

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I don't remember Snow White but I do remember the babies....Fiona has trouble telling Shrek about their impending arrival and he's afraid of becoming a father. But I can't remember Snow White.

Zoe, the poochkin, makes a friend before the movie starts

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We continue to pray for AW, and her family. We pray for the best possible outcome.

SS


I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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Thank you Cinderella for telling us about your travels.


I guess I better do mine before I become a liar.
Here's the photos - and a very short travelogue.

First, we have 9 grandkids now. Here are 8 of them on fathers day. The other one was out of town with her parents.

www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/FD.jpg

We took our vacation in July. We traveled parts of 5 states, and were able to see lots of beautiful country, including M&L's house.

First we stayed with an old friend of mine. He took us on a horse ride, and we celebrated July 4th at his house.

www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/horses.jpg

Then we toured Yellowstone National park
Here's the standard stuff you see there.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/gyser.jpg
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/Bison.jpg

I have to say it's a great place to visit, and we'll be going back again before too long.


We stopped at Bubba's in Cody WY, and had pancakes. I was hungry, but not that hungry. These were the biggest pancakes I have ever seen.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/pancakes.jpg


In one of the states we traveled, we passed M&L's house.
Here's a photo of it.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/M&L-house1.jpg

Here it is without the arrow - This is at sunset.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/M&L-house.jpg

My W took one of my DD and I from the same lookout when we first stopped.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/SS&DD.jpg




In late July we had a family reunion, but it rained most of the day. Rain is bad for some things, but good for photos like this.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/rainbow1.jpg

In August, we did a three day family backpack trip. We day hiked to an old sawmill one of the days, and took this. Three of my 4 daughters, and I.
www.outdooroutlet.com/SS/2008/hike.jpg

We hope all of you are happy, and well.

SS





I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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