Hi all, it is mlhb popping in. I do still lurk and post from time to time, and knew this would be the place to go with a real concern I have right now. First, I will say that selling my house and moving was the best decision I ever made. I have been able to put behind me all the drama of exh and exbf being in a new environment closer to family. It has been just awesome. I can truly say that a change of scenery has caused me to stop hating and to move on and for that I am thankful. Now,for those who do not know me, I will give as brief a background as I can: wh and I separated for good in 2005 after I found out about affair number...who knows what number.. with a young woman who used to work for me, and how was just married to one of the nicest guys in town. My kids were 8 at the time. From 2005 until the middle of 2006 he rarely saw the kids. He was too busy having fun in affair land and I would not allow the kids near her. He did bring them around her from time to time, made them lie to me about it, manipulated them,etc. Long story short, he tried to get custody of the kids in 2006 and I spanked his a** good in court. Especially since he had been recently arrested for, and plead guilty to, attacking me in front of the kids. He did not want to have to pay child support and just wanted to take from me the 2 things that mean more to me than anything. Probation was only going to offer him 2 weekends a month for visitation but dumb a** that I am, I offered him more than that and ended up giving him a pretty good deal visitation wise. (idiot idiot idiot). Once the custody agreement was signed, he went back to his old ways. Little by little the amount of time he spent with them got less and less as his life became more important. He lost the custody battle so what point was there?

2006 turned into 2007 and into 2008. My kids were hurt numerous times by ow and my exh. Manipulated, lied to, and verbally abused by their father. Hurt by ow and her words and actions. Disappointed too of course. Come spring of 2008 ow has been screwing around on my exh. Next thing I know she has thrown him out (which means she threw my kids out too) and his parents come to the rescue and buy him a house. Ow starts moving her things into the kids rooms there before they even move out! The last few weeks before my ex moves out, he has me keep the kids because it has become to unbearable there and he can't have the kids there. She moves on with her new bf and exh goes more into the literal drunken gutter. He starts giving up his time with the kids and just going out drinking. Gave up a whole week with them a few weeks ago. Totally disappointed my son.

Fast forward to last week and lo and behold, he is back with ow!
Now, I could care less what he does in his personal life, but leave my kids out of the dysfunction. They already feel betrayed by her, and they feel like their father has betrayed them as well by giving up his time with them. They are old enough to know that he does not make them a priority. Problem is, he now has them around her again. In fact, as I type this, he has my son at football practice, and my daughter is alone with her. He sees nothing wrong with this! Like we'll just forget about he fact she threw the kids out of her home, it's ok. I am FUMING right now.
Again, if he wants his life to be a train wreck , so be it, but why have the kids involved? He hardly sees them as it is, he doesn't have to have them around her.

My question is this: I have documented diligently that he has not followed our custody agreement, that he has given up voluntarily a lot of time with the kids, and now this with ow, not to mention that his work schedules for two jobs is not conducive to kids. Should I consult my attorney about having the custody agreement changed? I am very fearful about the mental health of my children right now. He has basically shown them that it is ok for ow to treat them how she wants, even throw them out, and that is ok. He sure doesn't have their back. That would be the day a man did that to me and I would have him back around my kids! I am also wondering at what age they can decide if they want to go over or not. My dd still cries about having to go over. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO GO TO HER DADS PERIOD. She cried like a baby last night knowing she had to go today. I don't want to make her go anymore. I think it is really affecting her.

I have not said a word to my ex yet. I do not want to be reactionary. I want to think through what I am going to do.

Any advice?

Wow, mlhb, I don't know what I'd do, honestly. But I don't see the downside to trying to get the visitation modified.

I plan to call my attorney today for an appt just to discuss my options.

Hi. I think this is a tough call.

You really need to weigh having a dad in their lives with lots of drama versus not having a dad in their lives with even more loss than they experience now.

Thinking about it, if I were in your shoes, I'd start by talking to your ex. I'd share your daughter's feelings and distress, and see what he says and does.

Since your ex's parents bought him a house, I assume he's living there rather than with OW. If so, maybe it won't be so traumatic.

If your ex doesn't respond half-way decently to his daughter's need for stability and emotional safety, you could simply tell him you won't force her to go into an environment that she and you both deem unhealthy.

You may also consider telling him that your putting the kids into family therapy, and you expect him to foot the bill and participate since his actions and "family" situation precipitated the need for counseling. (I like the word "precipitate" because it really means that it got the ball rolling, and not that it caused the need. Therefore, you're not ascribing blame.)

I no longer tell him my children's feelings because he just manipulates them with it and disregards their feelings. At first a few years ago my dd was encouraged to tell her father her feelings. We then found out that when she was, he was making her feel terribly guilty for feeling that way, and would send her to her room until she came out, stopped crying, and stopped feeling that way. OR, he would do worse and say that her feelings were making other woman feel bad.

So, it was advised to no longer have children tell dad how they feel since he twists it and hurts them with it.

There is no speaking or reasoning with him. He is a narcissist through and through.

He lives in the house his parents bought him now, but that does not mean she is not doing overnights when kids are there.

They don't see him that much as it is as he voluntarily gives up a lot of his visitation time with them anyway.

At this point GG, a life without him I think would be much healthier. Put it this way, my son BEGS me to get remarried so he can have a stable father figure in his life. He tells me he wants a man who is there for him every day, goes to his sports events, and will throw a football with him outside.

What does that tell you right there?
He is looking for a man he can depend on.

It is a tough call, but I have been watching this unfold for far too long.

mlhb

It's really hard for me to be really objective on this one, M, because my dad is just like that. In fact, he was actually diagnosed by his psychiatrist as a sociopath. I think it was before they used the NPD diagnosis.

My dad quasi-lived with us until my parents split when I was 21. Quasi because he worked a lot and had a lot of affairs to manage. That takes time.

Life with dad was not easy or pleasant and certainly skewed who I married. It also warranted lots of my own therapy bills. However, for better or worse, I'm glad my dad is still in my life... Because he's my dad. He's deeply flawed, he cannot be counted on for empathy, and you have to be very diligent about defending your boundaries when around him, but he's still my dad.

I don't know what to tell you. There's no way you can fix this situation since you didn't make it. Any path involves some pain for the kids. However, they'll be okay in the end because they have you.

How old are your kids MLHB? Since he is voluntarily giving up time with them, is it possible to ride this out until the kids are old enough to say for themselves? Rather than give him a reason to renew his "interest" in them (which to me seems like he just uses as a weapon rather than a true desire to be part of his kids lives), can you just allow his time to continue to decrease? Maybe even help it a little by finding special events that happen to coincide with his time so you can "ask" if it's ok to keep the kids for these? It sounds a little devious but unless you are certain you would win legally, you could make things worse.

GG: i do understand that no matter what path i take it will be painful. they are either hurt by being around him or hurt by being abandoned by him. no win there.

tabby: they are 11. i just want advice from my lawyer. he may say to ride it out. i am sure now that he is back with ow and making it like it is all aok again, he will be wanting his time with the kids because he has to once again look like father of the year to the w*ore of the year. they are nothing more than a pawn to be played with as far as he is concerned.

i wish we could have moved even further away....