Hi,

I am new to this site and forum. I have read through the Love Busters, Emotional Needs, and my husband and I have started the process of working on our relationship. We have a long way to go. One of our biggest issues has been dishonesty. Primarily, his dishonesty with me. I reached a point about 6 weeks ago where I was literally ready to kick him out the door for lying to me AGAIN. Some of his lies have been huge, and others are not really that important, but they are still LIES. I have forgiven him-I don't wish him ill, I don't feel he needs to "pay" for his lies, etc. And, we have discovered through much in-depth conversation his reasons for "hiding" certain things-and I believe he has been truthful. I also know what role I have played in the development of his untruths-the blowing up, arguing, being aggressive, etc. So, here we are, working desperately to save our marriage, and trying to forgive and forget. Forgiving has been easy...does anyone have any tips on forgetting? We are both committing to being truthful, and I am committed to providing him a safe environment to be truthful in-as that was one of our issues. Does this just take time? Will I eventually be able to fully trust him? Am I wrong for still "checking" up that everything is as he says? The past few weeks have been hard, but great at the same time because I feel we are more connected than ever. However, that old nagging feeling keeps coming back to the pit of my stomach. We are following the policy of radical honesty, and it seems to be working so far. I suppose I'm just really wondering how long it will take for all the wounds to heal. They are fairly deep.

Was there an affair involved? I to sm hsving trouble with the forgetting. It is just going to take time, communication, radical honesty and love.

We can learn to forgive but forgetting doesn't happen. We DO, however, with time, learn not to attribute so much to the remembering, when we remember, we also let go of it instead of dwelling on it or letting it reign us. Forgiving has a beginning point but is also a process, it is a releasing action
Poster: can you give us a time line as to when A took place, when was D-day, when was NC established, etc., that helps us understand where you are in this.

Ther wasn't really an affair, but some of you may see it differently. Let me explain...

He is a workaholic. A lot of our issues stem from him not committing to be home when he says he will. Initially, I was in the dark a lot about where he was and what he was up to. He travels for work. I do not believe he had any physical affairs, although I know he needs a lot of attention and admiration from co-workers. So, in order to please everyone, he does whatever is asked whenever it is asked-evenings, weekends, you name it and he is on it. Great for his coworkers, not great for his wife. There are three primary issues I am referring to that took place around the birth of our daughter at the end of March.

I was 9 months pregnant, two weeks away from a scheduled c-section (my third, two children from a previous marriage) and I was getting anxious about the surgery, not to mention hyped up on hormones. We had some issues with sex throughout the pregnancy, me feeling unattractive, finding unique positions, etc. Sex is not just sex to us, we both thrive on the physical and emotional bond that we have and when we are not close for any length of time we both tend to suffer a little bit because we crave that contact and time alone together. So, two weeks away from giving birth, I was checking the bank account. There was a charge on there I didn't recognize and so I looked up the name of the company on the internet. Turns out it was an all nude strip club. He had gone there on his business trip with his boss and some other coworkers. You can imagine my response. I was especially upset because the night he went there he failed to call me as he had promised. I asked him the next day if he had fun with the boys and what they did. He said they'd gone out for a couple of beers. So, he lied about where he was. When confronted with the evidence, he said he didn't tell me because he knew it would hurt me. I asked him what happened, what he did, etc. and he said he didn't touch anyone and that they just sat around drinking. The next couple of days didn't go any better. I felt totally betrayed. Here I was, as pregnant as anyone could be, and my husband was out looking at naked stripers. I also found his shirt in the laundry with makeup all over the front of it and the collar. He says he didn't get a lap dance, which I don't believe, and the makeup came from a girl rubbing up against him. He denies her ever putting her arm around him or him touching her, but I don't see how the makeup would get on the inside of his collar otherwise. I felt betrayed because he allowed another woman to invade our personal space. He told me he didn't want to go and he stayed out of the decision making conversation. I told him that if he doesn't stand up for himself and say he doesn't want to go, he might as well be enthusiastically agreeing to it. He didn't do our marriage any favors by not saying "no" to his boss. He has agreed to not ever do that again, and so far so good (I think).

So, that is one story. The other involves the actual birth of our daughter. After the strip-club incident, I told him I needed his full commitment to US. He had scheduled a full week off when she was born so he could be at the hospital with me, help me at home, etc. The day of her delivery we made it up to the room and he told me he'd gotten a bunch of emails about a work "emergency". Long story short, he spent much of the afternoon on the computer answering emails and leaving the room to take phone calls because apparently the world would fall apart if he didn't participate in the discussion. meanwhile, all I wanted was my husband and partner to give me his undivided attention and to hold my hand.

After all that, and other incidences leading up to those, I began to truly disengage. For a while I felt like I was the only one committed to our family. I feel that he has a lot of independent behaviors that are contributing to the breakdown of our marriage. And I feel that his work comes before anything else. We got to a final breaking point about a month ago. I found out that his mother, who has NEVER seen her new granddaughter, took his ex-wife and his son to see her mother in California. She claims she can't come see us because of money. he told me his mom was going to California, but he left out the part about taking his ex-wife. This is complicated, but ultimately what she does is her own business. I just couldn't understand why he'd lie to me about it. I found out because I checked his email (yes, wrong I know, but I couldn't get straight answers out of him for anything). I confronted him about it, giving him every opportunity to tell me first. I asked him if his ex went to California with his mother. He denied it. I told him I knew she did. He said he didn't find out until after the trip. I told him I knew he knew beforehand. He again flat out denied it. I then told him I saw the email, dated before the trip explaining they were going to California. At that point I was ready for a divorce.

I did a lot of thinking though. And, I found this site and many others to give me some insight. At the end of the day, i love this man. I love him unconditionally and I want to have a good marriage. I printed off some of the questionnaires and we have worked on them. It has been positive to learn new things and new ways of dealing with each other, and I have learned to see how my reactions and actions cause his reactions and actions. We both are at fault. He didn't feel comfortable telling me the truth because I always threatened to leave. We still have a long way to go, but I decided then and there that I love him and that I will accept his apologies. As I said before, I am still struggling to move on, especially from the strip club visit because I feel like it was an affair, even if he didn't have sex with anyone. We are still trying to work on things.

Also, a new update. We have been working on the policy of radical honesty, and have begun sharing our plans for the week every Sunday. He has made a strong commitment to be home every night that it is possible, and has been sticking to it. So, this Sunday he shared his schedule and commited to be home every night and Friday morning to take the baby to the sitter. Last night he called me on the way home and said his boss got them tickets to a baseball game for tonight and he would probably just spend the night after the game. (His meeting is in a town about 1 1/2 hours away). Instead of getting made and blowing up, I tried something new. I told him ok. I don't agree, but I told him ok. But I couldn't stop from putting up my wall either because again, he was breaking a commitment to me for work. So when he got home, we talked. I brought it up, without a fight and without attacking him. I told him he could do what he wanted, but that his actions hurt me because he made a commitment to me first and now work "fun" was taking a higher priority. He apologized but didn't offer to stay home. I was struggling with being really angry about it because how can he be sorry but not fix it???? He finally asked me what it would take for me to take down my wall, and I told him he would have to honor his commitment to be home. I had to take priority for once.

He said he would come home, but I have little faith. i will see what happens this evening. We still have such a long way to go, and I am worried that me not getting over the strip club thing is holding us back. He is making progress, and really is trying. i can see that in him. I think sometimes I am not being clear in what I want and need, although I don't know how else to say it.

It actually felt really good to get all that off my chest, so if anyone actually reads it all-Thank you!!!

Why did he and his ex divorce?

I feel bad talking about his previous situation, but here goes anyway. They divorced because they had grown apart (short version).

He was heavily into drugs as a teenager and young adult. I believe she found him an exciting challenge. He was still into drugs when they got married, and was for several years after. He finally went into rehab and then right after he got out she got pregnant. (He has been completely drug free since then, which was July of 2000. Let me be very clear, I am absolutly certain he has not slipped on this, so I don't want that to become a point of discussion.) He wasn't ready for kids, and didn't want kids at that point but she did. He believed she intentionally got pregnant. Whether or not she did, I cannot say, but that is his truth.

So, since he was angry about the pregnancy, he started spending more and more time wrapped up in work and on the road. She apparently wanted the baby more than the marriage and when he would come home, she would take off and spend time on her own. He said she was not affectionate and didn't like sex, two things I know he needs. So he spent a lot of time with the "boys" in strip clubs and the like, which further drove the wedge between them. I also know he "flirted" with wandering during that marriage, and he has been very forthright about that issue-telling me the who, what, when and where. In the end, neither believed it could be saved and they were merely cohabitating.

Any wonder why I don't trust him even though I try?

Your husband's behaviors haven't changed all that much. While he may not be a drug user anymore, he's still hanging out in strip clubs (a behavior you accepted when you married him) and he wasn't committed to his family in some way or another. Other than what you have already said, do you have reason to believe he is flirting with wandering again?

Not really, but he still works with the woman in question-which I loathe. Last night he got a call from her (I was standing by his phone when it came in and her name popped up) at 8:30pm after he got home, so she knew what his travel plans were. He didn't answer the first call (he was busy, but also didn't run to the phone like he usually does), but she called right back and he answered it. He answered it abruptly without saying her name, just "hi there", and kept it very businesslike and short-for me I'm sure. What erks me is her calling him so late, even for business purposes. I have heard him on the phone with her in the past and felt his tone was too flirtatious. At the time I demanded he stop it and he agreed. I've also watched his email closely for any notes from her and they have for the most part been business only. I did find one to her that was interesting. He was wearing a new pair of shoes one day and took a picture of them on his feet and sent it to me (stupid, I know.) Anyway, a check of his email showed he also sent it to her, in a separate email and before he sent it to me. Which aggrivated me, but I didn't call him out on it. He didn't say anything inappropriate, but it just aggrivated me that he thought to send it to her. So, to tell you the truth, I'm not sure. He denies he would ever do anything like have an affair, but keeping the lines open seem so important to him. So while he doesn't out and out "cheat"-as defined by having intercourse with someone else-he definately treads a fine line that I am finding more difficult to walk by the day.

By the way, their story goes like this: he is married with one child, she is married with one baby. He is unhappy at home, she is unhappy with her husband who wasn't working at the time. He is spending time at her account helping them redo some things. They end up going to dinners and having drinks while he is working at her account. He always spoke very highly of her and when I was at the account last fall (we work for the same company), that's when I found out about their little flirtation with each other. She made some comments about how "sweet" he is, so I asked him about it. He denies that they ever had sex or kissed or anything like that, but doesn't deny that there was a mutual attraction.

What I am confused about is he says all the right things, but his actions never follow through. Is he just that good of a liar? Are his intentions really sincere and he just doesn't know how to get there? Am I really just that stupid for sticking around and putting up with it? Do I draw the line? He says I always make him feel like the bad guy, and so I am starting to believe that I am asking too much, but am I really???

Forgiving has been easy...does anyone have any tips on forgetting? We are both committing to being truthful, and I am committed to providing him a safe environment to be truthful in-as that was one of our issues. Does this just take time? Will I eventually be able to fully trust him? Am I wrong for still "checking" up that everything is as he says?

You don't want to forget. You want to remember, so that you don't fall back into your old habits. You want to remember the lies and the pain and unhappiness. You want to remember that the lies were because your H was afraid of angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and other LBs that punished him when he told the truth. That way you will have incentive to always work very hard to make it safe for him to be 100% honest with you.

The wounds will heal with time, so that you have the memory of the behaviors and consequences without the intense pain.

Will you be able to fully trust him? Only if he earns that trust. It's not up to you to give him your trust. He's broken that. It's up to him to earn it back. Let him. This is not your load to carry.

There are those who say checking up is a violation of privacy. I personally think that you have the right to protect yourself now that you've been injured by his deceit, and one way to do that is to check up on him.

Is there a way you two could POJA this? Will he agree to give you his passwords, give you access to his cell records, put a GPS tracking device on his car, etc? How important is it to him that he protect you and show you that he is trustworthy?

Will you be able to fully trust him? Only if he earns that trust. It's not up to you to give him your trust. He's broken that. It's up to him to earn it back. Let him. This is not your load to carry.

That's part of our issue, he expects me to just automatically trust him. I have to "trust him". I have explained that he should earn that back, but he keeps pressuring me and saying that he can't be confident and keep it up if he doesn't feel like I trust him. He has a thick skull.

Someone pointed out in an earlier response that he hasn't changed much from his previous marriage. I did some thinking about that comment this afternoon, and whoever said that is right. He hasn't. We have gone round and round about the same issues and keep coming back to them time and again. I feel like we are making progress at a snail's pace. What should one expect when they are asking a spouse to change their behavior? I know it won't happen overnight, and I know there will be slip-ups, right? And how should I react? My instinct is to throw a fit like a two year old, and I don't want to just give him a "free card" to do whatever he pleases, no matter how I feel about it. But I feel like that's where I am-that I should excuse his behavior no matter how it effects me. is that right? Telling him how I feel evokes a "sorry", but he doesn't do anything to "fix" it-like not doing what he was going to do, or not doing it again. What a flipping mess. And I feel like a nagging ninny who is just never satisfied.